Jabby Jab
If we are going to post comments about Covid or vaccines, then maybe it should (again) have it's own forum/thread instead of junking up the fishing proposals thread.
The decreased Case Fatality Rates (CFR) over the years is clearly due to the less deadly strains of Covid and less to do with vaccines.
Any analysis of the data that includes dates, variant, cases, death, vaccinated status numbers clearly shows this.
The unvaccinated CFR's have also dropped from those early days of the Alpha Variant of 3%+ to now be below 0.5% (due to Omicron variants being less fatal)
If the vaccines are so effective, why are people still not queuing up for their boosters that they require at least every 6 months to be effective?
The simple answer is because the mandates are no longer forcing/coercing people to get jabbed against their will.
At the start of 2022, there was a period when Australia was averaging over 250,000 doses a day.
We are now down below 20,000 doses a day.
It appears that now people are allowed to make their own informed consent decisions about whether to get doses/boosters or not, they are choosing not to.
To me that either says people do not believe the boosters are effective enough to justify another shot or they only got those shots earlier because they were pressured to do so.
- 21113 reads
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
some evidence would be nice
Show me examples of Polio epidemics that got worse with standards of living in the last 50 years?
This is straight from WHO, the very first site I looked at for Polio information, "The virus is shed by infected people (usually children) through faeces, where it can spread quickly, especially in areas with poor hygiene and sanitation systems."
I could provide a dozen such quotes.
What evidence do you have regarding your horrible outcomes prediction?
How is Polio going to spread in today's age. It is most easily transmitted when people touch faeces and then touch their mouths ... I guess MonkeyPox tells us that there would be some people of the community at considerable risk. But as soon as it is detected and people properly get tested, isolate and quarantine, I struggle to see how it easily spreads. We were able to prevent Covid-19 from spreading prior to vaccines.
And keep in mind, irriversible paralysis occurs in about 1 in 200 of infected cases and 5-10% of those may die ... so you need about 2-4k people to be infected before you expect to have 1 person die from Polio. That is a Case Fatality Rate of less than 0.05%. Covid-19 Alpha variant was about 3%.
Australia's Immigration since 2014 have policies in place for people coming from countries where Polio is considered a risk.
if a person has spent more than 28 days in the country of concern they may be required to provide a certificate of vaccination between 4 weeks and 12 months prior to departure.
Australia's last recorded locally acquired case was way back in 1972 ... so no benefit of vaccines in Australia for 50 years.
When there is no virus present, the vaccine has zero benefit.
Da pirate
Posts: 1561
Date Joined: 03/05/15
Curious.
Not stirring and you really know your stats and
this topic . Some interesting other parts little
slow reading for me .. you joined 2015 you
have 211 posts at moment how many of those
would be Fishing related compared to the massive
effort of yours on the covid vac topic blue Kaiser ?
That's a lot of man hours of research and reading
and the rest .. myself put that into fishing hours
or prepping for a fish full time work or watching a
movie with the family than trying to drill a poiint
or points into people on a fishing forum ..
cheers pirate.
Shark1
Posts: 1086
Date Joined: 21/05/12
well i do appreciate his
well i do appreciate his efforts - we need all points of view pirate, like curently most ppl believe we needa 9month ban due to the gvnmt hype
more time he research the more fish there is for me to catch ;p
i had the jab cause i couldnt go to work - or the bottlo without it
what is a fact tho
after the jab there was a lot less fatalities- come argue that point witht the ms who flew to VIC for 5 months as a nurse to go help them out
she will flatten you, props with a bg stick or the 9mm if the stick doesnt work - then jab u
Da pirate
Posts: 1561
Date Joined: 03/05/15
Yeah.
Yeah totally agree shark .. I'm triple
jabbed myself. Not against anyones
opinoins ! I just think he should be
rewarded for his efforts but maybe on
another relevant platform that's all .. and
myself jab or no job . Cheers pirate
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
get cancelled elsewhere
I'm mainly here because we get the ole cancel culture remove us from most public places.
Censorship and control of any wrong-think is rife on social media now.
Facebook gets rid of large vaccine injury support groups.
Public Discord servers got shudown for containing any covid-19 "misinformation".
Even places like BigFooy is severely moderated to ensure no posts against the official covid-19 narratives.
People in here have actually been very civil to have allowed me so far ... but I expect that will not last forever.
davewillo
Posts: 2398
Date Joined: 08/09/16
Everyone's entitled to their
Everyone's entitled to their opinion mate. You're clearly coming at this from a particular angle which doesn't align with many others on here but at least you have put in the time to support your opinion. Nothing worse than someone ranting and raving based on what they read on Facebook or something.
PGFC member and lure tragic
Da pirate
Posts: 1561
Date Joined: 03/05/15
No worries .
From what I've read would take me days
personally .too put together . mind you little I'm dyslexic
and attention span of Farking cricket.
cheers pirate
little johnny
Posts: 5359
Date Joined: 04/12/11
Can tell fish ban
About to start . Painting house and squid time for me.
Da pirate
Posts: 1561
Date Joined: 03/05/15
Hospital.
Mrs in hospital at moment Johnny.
so beach fishing and looking after her
for next few months.. cheers pirate
davewillo
Posts: 2398
Date Joined: 08/09/16
Hope she's fine and on the
Hope she's fine and on the mend soon Pirate.
PGFC member and lure tragic
Da pirate
Posts: 1561
Date Joined: 03/05/15
Yeah.
Yeah cheers Dave brought home now
playing nurse all good she lets me go
fishing !! Lol . Not doing crays this year
gonna Play round with some toothys
on the sand instead . Cheers pirate
little johnny
Posts: 5359
Date Joined: 04/12/11
Just wondering blue
Do you like using polony for cray bait ?
sea-kem
Posts: 14970
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Ba ha ha ha ya gotta wonder
Ba ha ha ha ya gotta wonder LJ.
Love the West!
carnarvonite
Posts: 8667
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Dog Roll
Dunno about polony but had a couple of frozen dog rolls living in the bottom of the freezer for a while since we lost both bogs so decided to try them in the pots, surprisingly it works well and proves cheaper than having to but fresh bait
Happy dayz
Posts: 450
Date Joined: 29/04/18
Ha ha i was starting to
Ha ha i was starting to think the same
Happy dayz
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
Vaccine misinformation
No not misinformation from me, but clearly from your leaders and vaccine producer/marketers as detailed in this recent article;
https://www.news.com.au/technology/science/human-body/yes-they-claimed-the-vaccines-would-prevent-transmission/news-story/a176eb002c29e603fc29ef9fe0b33b18
An average of less than 8,000 new doses of vaccine per day in Australia, reported for the past week.
As I have posted previously, that number was abover 250,000 per day back near the start of this year.
The truth is slowly coming out, many people are waking up and no longer choose to be jabbed every 3 months.
marble
Posts: 775
Date Joined: 03/09/09
Ah the internet . The all
Ah the internet . The all encompasing source of information to prove any and everything that anyone can dream up . Made easier when said dreamers are easily baffled by simple concepts and facts
PMY 25 Centre Console DF300 Suzuki
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8143
Date Joined: 07/05/12
By your logic BK. In say 30
By your logic BK. In say 30 years when cases of mesothelioma drop off to almost nothing it'd be ok to recommence using asbestos in homes?
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
How so
Asbestos has not been eradicated from our environments, people can still catch mesothelioma and there are no vaccines for it.
Meanwhile, your logic appears to be that we should be vaccinated against diseases that are not even in our environment with very little risk of them returning to our environment, regardless of how safe the vaccine is.
My logic is that if there is very little risk of serious illness or death from a disease then taking a vaccine for it is senseless (eg. children getting Covid-19 jabs).
If a risk for a disease increases due to whatever circumstances and there is a vaccine that is real world effective (over 50% for 12+ months), and appears to be safer than getting no vaccine, then you get it ... that is a logical approach.
If I were to become an ambulance driver, I would have a real good look at getting Hep B vaccines because I would suddenly be in a higher risk profile of catching Hep B and the benefits would likely outweigh the risks. I am not going to get a Hep B vaccine now because there is a 1 in a million chance I may become an ambo driver in the future.
For the same reason people in Australia get certain jabs before going to certain places in the world ... that is, they will be changing their risk profile.
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8143
Date Joined: 07/05/12
I'm just using your logic
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
Good question
Firstly, Polio as a disease is not very contagious unless prevalent in an environment of poor sanitation/sewerage/running water.
So I would be extremely surprised if wild poiio could ever spread in Australia with our current standards of living.
But that does not really answer your question, so if we use your hypothetical, my desire would be that as soon as our Health department gives notification of the first case of Polio, they then inform the public about the disease, it's risks, the chances of it spreading and also informatiion about the vaccine.
Then people could make an informed consentual decision as to whether they choose to get a fresh vaccination or not, based on their (and their children's) individual risks/benefits.
My problem is that history tells me our Health departments would not do this, but instead use the Polio case as a marketing propaganda tool to push vaccines on the masses, regardless of their actual risks/benefits.
Have you not noticed that even though we are almost three years in to the Covid-19 pandemic that virtually the only advice we get from our Health departments about Covid-19 is to isolate (good), wash hands (use hand sanitisers - good), wear masks (not a fan of their risk/benefit) and get the jab.
What about testing for Covid-19 antibodies or recommending alternative treatments like Vitamin D, Vitamin C, Zinc, losing weight, reducing hypertension, ...
And then we have thinigs like Ivermectin demonised by our Health department, yet used with extreme success in other less Westernised globalist countries like India. Ivermectin could never be promoted here because it is a generic drug which makes very little money for Big Pharma and if it was shown to be as effective or more than our experimental vaccines, then our emergency use only Covid-19 jabs would not have been allowed to be approved for use.
This extract about Ivermectin used in India is from an article I read just a few days ago (ie. real world effectiveness);
"Among the most prominent examples include the Ivermectin areas of Delhi, Uttar Pradesh, Uttarakhand, and Goa where cases dropped 98%, 97%, 94%, and 86%, respectively. By contrast, Tamil Nadu opted out of Ivermectin. As a result, their cases skyrocketed and rose to the highest in India. Tamil Nadu deaths increased ten-fold."
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8143
Date Joined: 07/05/12
So what was the number?
So what was the number?
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
communism anyone
I answered your question stating after the very first case of Polio, people should have a choice whether to then get a Polio vaccine (given good accurate information).
Do you want compulsory vaccinations for every disease or why can you not understand a risk/benefit approach for individuals?
All vaccines come with a risk and when considered, is sometimes greater than the benefit offerred by a vaccine, especially those for diseases that a person is unlikely to encounter in the near future.
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8143
Date Joined: 07/05/12
You didn't though, you
You didn't though, you skimmed around it and started some strawman arguement about horse medication and last I checked the polio vaccine was voluntary.
Again.... what is the average number of annual polio paralysis cases you would accept before wanting to see the polio vaccination placed on the schedule if removed? If not at all just say infinite...
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
I shall try again
I'm confused because I have already told you that after 1 case the Health department provides adequate information and makes the vaccine available to people who want it.
Isn't that clear enough for you?
Once there are again no more cases of Polio, they no longer focus on it.
If your sticking point is when should a vaccine be added or removed from the National Immunisation Program Schedule (NIPS) then that raises a whole new topic given I am opposed to the NIPS in it's current form.
It pushes vaccines on to parents, their children and adults without adequate information for people to make proper informed consentual decisions.
But understand that we do not currently put all vaccines that are availalbe on to the NIPS (eg. SmallPox, Covid-19 jabs).
I would argue that Polio is only still part of the NIPS because it comes in the combination jabs supplied by the vaccine producers ... but many parents are concerned about these early childhood jabs containing too many toxins.
My belief is that Polio in it's current form has no risk worth consideration of becoming a pandemic in Australia.
If you believe Polio still has a risk of becoming a pandemic then I would suggest you have a poor understanding of Polio's characteristics, especially how it is transmitted and it's transmission rates.
The current greatest risk the world faces from Polio is due to the cheaper Oral vaccines still being used in many poorer countries, which are still causing Vaccine Derived Polio in larger numbers than the actual Wild Polio that these vaccines are trying to eradicate.
That is not a problem for us in Australia because we have been using the Injectable vaccine for decades. And we have stringent immigration rules regarding people coming from countries with Polio.
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8143
Date Joined: 07/05/12
Sooooo 10...70...300?I'd also
Sooooo 10...70...300?
I'd also be highly surprised if polio became a pandemic in Australia
All your PhDs in CopyandPasteology and you don't know the difference between a pandemic and an epidemic
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
Not so clever
Firstly, it is illogical accusing a person of copy and pasting and then criticising that person's choice of wording they apparently copy and pasted.
Secondly, why can it not be a pandemic when I am talking about Polio getting out of control in Australia?
Given Polio first needs to come in to Australia across international borders it is more likely to be a pandemic than an epidemic.
That is, I would say Australia was already dealing with the Covid-19 pandemic in January 2020 even though WHO declared it later in March.
I am not going to be bothered with referring to it as the Covid-19 Epidemic in Australia for the first 2 months.
And lastly, if you think acting stupid continuing on about, how many Polio cases, when I have answered that 3 times now, then my only confusion that remains is if you are acting.
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8143
Date Joined: 07/05/12
I never said you didn't edit
I never said you didn't edit your copypasta to try and make it sound like your own words Dr K. An extremely common approach amongst the woke community.
It can't be 'a pandemic in Australia'. It's 'an epidemic in Australia' or 'a pandemic', you cannot have a (singular) pandemic in a country. C19 was already a pandemic before it look hold in Australia but it's interesting to note you are happy to quote the World Health Organisation when it suits your agenda.
So infinite then, gotcha.
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
More subjective nonsense
Yes it can be a pandemic in Australia. The following statement is true ... We are dealing with a Covid-19 pandemic in Australia.
WHO declared the pandemic in March by which time Australia already had over 100 cases reported, which grew to over 1,000 less than 2 weeks later.
Right now your topics of choice are; a) whether the correct use was pandemic or epidemic and b) apparently my refusal to play your game involving your nonsense hypothetical that involves Polio returning in such great numbers that it will be essential for the Polio vaccine to stay on the NIPS forever more.
If your imagination needs to be your gotcha then you go with that.
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8143
Date Joined: 07/05/12
*We are dealing with the
*We are dealing with the Covid-19 pandemic in Australia. Still interesting that you are referring to the World Health Organisation... aren't they in cahoots with the UN to enslave us all in 2030.
Gotcha as in 'I understand', you are doing a brilliant job at contradicting yourself and changing your arguement or shifting the goal post with weazel words without any help from me.
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
not the first time
You have bogged down this discussion before with your focus on unimportant strawman arguments so go for your life when you respond to this post as I will not be patronizing you with any further replies on these particular points.
Are we now arguing over the use of a singular the vs a plural a thing now?
If you want to scrutinise my Engrish or pour gramma, go 4 it. That is not one of my attributes that I hang my hat on.
I very often use data and quotes from sources that generally speaking, I do not trust, but I believe my target audience may trust, eg. AusVaxSafety, NSW Health department, Pfizer, etc...
You would be even less receptive if I used data or quotes from an anti-vax website.
I understood your use of the word gotcha. My response was in relation to you deciding my answer was infinite (your imagination) when it clearly was not my answer.
crasny1
Posts: 7003
Date Joined: 16/10/08
So
Do you agree with Polio vaccination????
"There is no Polio problem in Australia BECAUSE WE USE the injectable vaccine????"
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
No polio because there is no polio
Are you insane? ... given you agreed with sea-kem that replying to me was insanity.
And why is this in quotes ... "There is no Polio problem in Australia BECAUSE WE USE the injectable vaccine????"
And how hard is it to understand that we have no Polio in Australia because we have no Polio in Australia.
You can not spread an infectious disease that does not exist ... (unless you use Oral Polio vaccine, which we do not, as I had already stated).
The Polio vaccines are not capable of 100% stopping Polio for a population.
Modern standards of living with good hygiene and sanitation can be enough to stop Polio from being transmitted.
Even prior to the Polio vaccine, the disease would disappear for long periods of time until it was reintroduced again from another country or location.
The topic of Polio was raised when I asked a question of what disease could have killed me in the last 50 years in Australia if I was not vaccinated for it and what is that risk. Clearly, the chances of me dying from Polio in the last 50 years without having a Polio vaccine has been 0 because we have not had any cases of Polio where I have lived for more than 50 years.
sea-kem
Posts: 14970
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Careful you're arguing with
Careful you're arguing with an actual doctor who's probably connected to deep state,MSN and the 2030 agenda.
Love the West!
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
Dr or no Dr
I have very little faith in any person who a year ago was trying to tell us that because they had their vaccines they knew 100% they would not die from Covid and other stuff like how the jabs meant he had a lower risk of transmission than a naturally infected person.
Even a Pfizer executive recently admitted that they did not know if their jabs stopped transmission when they went to market.
The problem with far too many GP's is they are too invested in what they are trying to sell.
sea-kem
Posts: 14970
Date Joined: 30/11/09
You obviously lack
You obviously lack humour
farken hell.
Love the West!
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
Far from it
I just do not share yours or any others sense of humour who think cheap personal shots at fellow posters is funny.
It's children playground mob mentality stuff ... most often resorted to by those who are struggling to rationally discuss/debate a topic and get desperate to score a win (in the eyes of their playground mates).
sea-kem
Posts: 14970
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Ooookayyyy
Ooookayyyy
Love the West!
crasny1
Posts: 7003
Date Joined: 16/10/08
What are we selling
That we might be invested in. I can 100% tell you that it is not legal for Dr's to sell medicines thats on the PBS for profit. There is a few rare dispensing GPs in very remote locations but they have a special licence and audits.
The only items are travel medication and vaccines.
So as a group what investment other than saving the lives off people and reducing morbidity have we got. Pray tell!
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
Big Pharma money
Less than 12 months ago I read an article about Queensland Corruption oversight finding $670,000 worth of undeclared gifts from Big Pharma to some 230 hospital workers.
The problem wasn't the amounts they were beeing paid by the pharmaceutical companies, but the fact that they did not properly declare the gifts.
And when I say become invested, I am not only talking about financially.
You are encouraged to push certain health and medical narratives to allow you to continue to practice without the scrutiny that is applied to GP's who do not.
I am pretty sure I have seen you attack Ivermectin when prior to Covid-19, I would suggest some of your GP colleagues were using this as a repurposed medication for such things as Rosacea. Isn't that funny how you helped push the narrative that Ivermectin (a Nobel prize winning medication) is dangerous when pre-Covid-19 it was safely used by 100s of millions of people globally for all sorts of treatments with virtually no concerns of it's safety.
And is now still being used very successfully in India to reduce the impacts of Covid-19.
crasny1
Posts: 7003
Date Joined: 16/10/08
Simple
There is no Polio in Australia BECAUSE we have used the injectable vaccine, ie it FN works and stopped the virus.
I have seen and been in an Iron lung (lying in it for 10 minutes) and that was hell enough. I wouldnt want anyone to have to EVER do that again. Probably nowadays would be intubated with Trachy in ICU but thats not much better.
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
Again with the fear
This is not the first time you have tried to sell unfounded fear.
Here, you try to paint the scary picture of an iron lung and then in the very same paragraph state they probably wouldn't even be used for Polio today.
Death from Respiratory paralysis from Polio is not a common factor for Polio cases. It is something like a 1 in 2000-4000 cases type event (as reported, 1 in 200 Polio cases cause paralysis with a death rate of 5-10%).
And again, a vaccine does not stop or give you any protection against a disesase that you are not coming in contact with.
Do you want SmallPox jabs to be given to everybody too?
While you may believe the Polio jab stopped Polio in Australia you have no way of absolutely knowing that to be true.
Did it help get us to no cases of Polio ... I believe it did because their is good evidence supporting that, but there is also plenty of evidence showing other factors also helped us and there is evidence we could have also got to no cases without the vaccines (as pre-vaccine history shows).
Even recent Polio studies of vaccines show the R0 (Reproductive Number/how contagious) is about 4 for Westernised countries like Australia, but 14-18 in India with high density and poor hygiene and sanitation.
So while we know the Polio vaccines immunity wanes with time and is not 100% effective, our standards of living continue to improve and as shown, statistically speaking, a case can easily be made to show high standards of living may be even more effective than the Poliio vaccines (ie. a 3 to 4 fold decrease in risk).
The Polio vaccine has never provided 100% protection to any country including Australia, so nobody should be saying or inferring that the vaccine is absolutely the one thing that has eradicated Polio in Australia. It is ignorant. Just the same as it would be ignorant if I claimed the Polio vaccine has done nothing to help ... something I have never said.
crasny1
Posts: 7003
Date Joined: 16/10/08
- true, but is intubation
- true, but is intubation with a trachy better or worst. And long term occupation off an ICU bed blocking the poor bloke in a Car accident access etc etc.
"Here, you try to paint the scary picture of an iron lung and then in the very same paragraph state they probably wouldn't even be used for Polio today."
"Death from Respiratory paralysis from Polio is not a common factor for Polio cases. It is something like a 1 in 2000-4000 cases type event (as reported, 1 in 200 Polio cases cause paralysis with a death rate of 5-10%)". - sad for the 1 in 2000 cases. Again you miss the morbidity issue with not death but permanent paralysis. I do hope you dont have a stroke and discover what a severe disability that is. Rate of paralysis in the USA has declined from thousands in the 50s to none in the 2020's, apart from the one case in New York recently.
"And again, a vaccine does not stop or give you any protection against a disesase that you are not coming in contact with". True, but why do you not come in contact with it, because vaccination eradicated it. As for Small pox, if it returned, absolutely I would recommend that. It wasnt eradicated in Africa when I was young and we all got it (got the scar to prove) but in Oz by that time it was and still is
As for the rest, there could be various facors true, but you cant prove either that vaccination didnt cause the eradication of Polio, and using Occam's razor the plausible explaination is that vaccination eradicated this.
You should probably look at applying Occum's to your other points. If 90% of us have had vaccines, then simply the plausible arguement isnt that 90% are stupid and blind, it is more likely and plausible that the other 10% is.
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
Yes, Occam's Razor
The whole discussion about Polio kicked off when I asked the question of what vaccine has protected me in the last 50 years from dying and what was that risk of me dying without that vaccine. If one applies Occam's Razor, the simplist answer is no, the polio vaccine has not protected me in the last 50 years because there has been no Polio where I live. My Polio vaccinations (during the last 50 years) has made no difference to my risk of serious illness or dying from Polio.
It was never my goal to prove the Polio vaccine did not work or help against the fight of Polio (especially when Polio was prevalent).
But instead, to show there are also other reasons why Polio has not run rampant and infected the majority of the world (as history shows it never did prior to vaccines). It only killed about 1,000 people over 10 years during Australia's worst Polio epidemic (1946-55).
And while you continue to make absolute statements like "because vaccination eradicated it", I continue to try to show we cannot prove that is true because immunology and epidemiology should not ever only be about vaccines. (ie. applying Occam's Razor is choosing to be ignorant of the complexities of infectious diseases).
I think many here prefer to think that I am against vaccines ... I am not. But I am against the misuse of vaccines.
And I am aware vaccines come with a risk (that people rarely acknowledge or discuss) and should therefore only be used where a risk/benefit calculation for individuals tells us the vaccine is justified/warranted.
marrisy
Posts: 202
Date Joined: 08/09/11
Polio vaccine
My parents wouldn't let me have the poliomyelitis vaccine because the first one killed and crippled thousand. I think it was the Salk vaccine. I waited for the Sabin vaccine.
I am fine, but know people who were crippled from polio, my parents made the right choice for myself and siblings.
I have had all the recommended vaccines except the mRNA. Waited for the latest old tech version of vaccine.
Still got covid. And think the used car sales man comparison is a good thing to keep in mind.
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
Salk's Cutter incident
I'm assuming you are talking about the Cutter incident.
Salk was actually a bit unlucky with this.
His vaccine contained the dead virus but the Cutter incident, that led to deaths and many infected with Polio, occured when Cutter industries did not properly produce his vaccine as instructed, resulting in some live virus being given to a large number of recipients, causing Salk's vaccines to be withdrawn from market and replaced by Sabin's.
Sabin's vaccine was a cheaper Oral one with a mild live virus.
The irony is that we now still have both types in use, but Sabin's Oral live vaccines are the ones that still cause (on rare occasions) some cases of Vaccine Derived Polio, whereas Salk's does not.
Third world countries tend to use Sabin's Oral one, while in Australia (US & other Westernised countries) we now only use Salk's Inactivated Polio Vaccine.
There was another Polio vaccine controversy regarding the contamination of cancer causing SV40 (Simian Virus) which came from the monkey kidney cells used in the production of the vaccines during 1955 & 1963. I'm not sure if this affected anybody outside of the US, but a huge number of the US population got some of that bad juice.
marble
Posts: 775
Date Joined: 03/09/09
Wish there was a way to
Wish there was a way to laugh
PMY 25 Centre Console DF300 Suzuki
Moondog
Posts: 131
Date Joined: 25/06/18
People still defending the
People still defending the jab when Pfizer have just admitted it wasn't tested to see if it stopped transmission. They whole thing was stop the spread, wear your mask to stop the spread, get your jab to stop the spread.
We are now going to force you to get the jab to keep your job so you don't spread covid to your workmates.
You can't visit hospitals if you haven't had the jab because you could spread covid.
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8143
Date Joined: 07/05/12
Who in their right mind ever
Who in their right mind ever thought that the jab would stop the spread? Anyone who's ever had the flu shot knows that you can still contract the flu but the symptoms are far less.
Completely agree on the rhetoric coming from McGowan and co though and they spread misinformation regarding the spread and forced vaccine on people, not to stop the spread but to try and avoid their terrible health system from collapsing. A large cohort of the population goggled this up. I am hoping that the Libs turn the tide in 2025 and force an inquiry into this with McGowan, Robertson, Sanderson and Cook to all be required to give evidence and turnover their records.
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
Some common ground
Yep, spot on about the McGowan misinformation and his deflections away from his own health system failures.
While many may have been aware that the jabs would not stop the spread, the early narratives and actions told us otherwise.
For example, there are many Aged Care Homes which do not allow visitors without a current influenza shot (even pre-Covid).
Similar mandates and policies were enforced during the Covid-19 pandemic and many still exist.
It was not surprising that people would then infer that the flu and Covid-19 vaccines must stop transmission, otherwise, why would you have such restrictions?
And then there was so many quotes from authority figures all over the world leading us to believe the jabs stopped transmission.
Heck, even back in early 2021 (12th March) Pfizer tweeted "The Israel data demonstrate that the vaccine may be able to prevent continued transmission of SARS-CoV-2, which is vital to helping to bring an end to the pandemic."
And Pfizer's early presentations of their studies showed the vaccine's efficacy against being infected based on observation and diagnosis of any Covid symptom. That is, the early marketed efficacy was against symptomatic infection (not just the much wider claimed serious illness/death classification).
So, yes there is plenty of evidence showing Pfizer and others misinformed people to believe their vaccine protected them against infection and transmission.
crasny1
Posts: 7003
Date Joined: 16/10/08
we kept the border's closed
to protect the vulnerable until the vaccine level was high enough. Compared to a smaller state South Australia population 1.77 Million, WA 2.6 Million.
They have had currently 777596 cases, 1029 deaths (0.13%) and we have had 1168975 cases, 677 deaths (0.06%).
That is half the mortality rate per case. I think that McGowan and Andy Robertson got it correct, and there are plenty of families not grieving because of this.
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
Grieving Families
I would suggest that the covid-19 restrictions imposed on peoples freedoms caused far greater grievances on families than your proposed saving of lives.
And I struggle to see how any of that data supports a case to wait for the vaccines.
Every state and territory in Australia has had their greatest numbers of Covid-19 cases and deaths after the vaccines were introduced.
Australia wide, over 99% of recorded infections and 95% of deaths occurred after the rollouts of the jabs commenced.
That is, our worst infected states prior to the vaccines still faired way better than any of us have since the vaccines.
We may have had more deaths if WA had open borders in 2020, but many of those deaths likely happened in 2021 regardless (unhealthy aged high co-morbiidities).
The decisions made by our Australian political leaders was not based on their own government expert advice, but instead guided by globalists.
The national cabinet ministers meetings (created by ScoMo in March 2020 replacing the Council of Australian Governments, COAG) were designed to allow pow-wows with no transparency, free from FOI requests (under the Westminster conventions).
At that stage, COAG (who would not have been isolated from future FOI requests) had already produced a living emergency response plan for Novel Coronavirus, which was supposed to be periodically updated ... yet has still not been updated since April 2020. That plan did NOT advise any border restrictions and instead was in line with the likes of the later Great Barrington Declaration ... something the globalists tried to censor (recent US lawsuit to have Dr. Fauci deposed shows evidence of this).
Do some research on the origins and funding (ie.Gates) of the likes of UK's Imperial College (which also guided our very own Doherty Institute) where they lobbied governments to lockdown and impose restrictions using some very poor and dubious modelling.
crasny1
Posts: 7003
Date Joined: 16/10/08
Are you realy dumb!!Dont
Are you realy dumb!!
Dont look at the number of deaths alone, look at the number off death/case.
Between the beginning of 2020 to 1/9/2021 we had 50 093 cases, 1645 deaths (ratio deaths to cases percentage 3.28%).
Since 10 295 163 cases, 13 941 deaths (ratio deaths to cases 0.13%)
Now I wonder why this massive drop in case mortality? You would claim it has nothing to do with vaccination, but that the actual virus has just become a whimp. But prove it. And I can tell you there are numerous trusted studies that prove vaccination work. Not as well with prevention due to immune escape from the variants, but hospitalisation and deaths it does.
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
Variants dear Henry
It is well accepted that our current Omicron variant is less fatal than the earlier Alpha variant and the different Covid-19 variants have different fatality rates.
That is the main reason for that difference in Case Fatality Rates (CFR).
If you have done the analysis that I have done, then you would also be aware that (in Australia at least) once a new variant has become dominant, increases in vaccinated percentages does not correlate to a decrease in the CFR (deaths/cases) percentages. That is, we do not have real world data in Australia that supports the notion that vaccines have been effective at preventing deaths. Yet there are obvious drops in the CFR as the new variants became dominant. There was sudden drops from Alpha to Delta and then again from Delta to Omicron.
I am not here to argue if vaccines do or do not work. I accept generally speaking vaccines do work.
But it is their actual real world effectiveness and risks that I debate and these Covid-19 vaccines are alarmingly poor in this regard.
The latest NSW Health weekly surveillance report once again shows 0 Unvaccinated Hospital and ICU cases. For the last 8 weeks of this data that I have now looked at, 0.2% of hospitalised Covid-19 cases have been unvaccinated and 0.9% of ICU (vs 4+ doses, 32.8% of total Hospitalised & 31.3% ICU).
Real World Data. These vaccines are not working as effectively as we were told they would ... remember 2020 when Pfizer told us 95% efficacy starting 28 days after 1 dose.
sea-kem
Posts: 14970
Date Joined: 30/11/09
You do know how the vaccine
You do know how the vaccine works? And why it works like it does. Because reading your comments I don't think you do.
And for those clowns that tote Ivermectin as a treatment for Covid here's a little info
https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2021/09/03/-thinking-of-trying-ivermectin-for-covid-heres-what-can-happen-w.html
Love the West!
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
real world vs propaganda
I produce real world effectiveness evidence of Ivermectin in India and the hopeless attempt to slander Ivermectin is an article reporting an overdose resulting in diarrhoea and vomitting. You do understand that about 10% or over 6million Covid-19 doses have caused gastrointestinal adverse reactions?
The only reason people are overdosing on Ivermectin is because our corrupt Health system made it near on impossible to source the medication through trusted sources.
ivermectin is a Nobel winning drug. Yes ... Nobel winning.
This is how it was being reported (2017 article from The Journal of Antibiotics) before the Covid-19 globalist propaganda machine went to work on it ... extract taken from the very first hit I get when searching ivermectin with a date filter 2016-2019;
"Over the past decade, the global scientific community have begun to recognize the unmatched value of an extraordinary drug, ivermectin, that originates from a single microbe unearthed from soil in Japan. Work on ivermectin has seen its discoverer, Satoshi Ōmura, of Tokyo’s prestigious Kitasato Institute, receive the 2014 Gairdner Global Health Award and the 2015 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine, which he shared with a collaborating partner in the discovery and development of the drug, William Campbell of Merck & Co. Incorporated. Today, ivermectin is continuing to surprise and excite scientists, offering more and more promise to help improve global public health by treating a diverse range of diseases, with its unexpected potential as an antibacterial, antiviral and anti-cancer agent being particularly extraordinary."
If you genuinely wish to be informed, then at least look at https://c19ivermectin.com/ ... 185 studies, 134 peer reviewd, 83% improvement for early treatment and prophylaxis.
sea-kem
Posts: 14970
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Slander Ivermectin ha ha ha
Slander Ivermectin ha ha ha come on shall I get the fiddle out
What actual point can't you get that Ivermectin is not safe for Covid treatment, or is it pure arrogance that you think you know better.
Why do you think the health department made it hard to source? It's because idiots self medicate and make themselves sick.
Nobel winning drug but not for Covid treatment, twist it how you like chief.
Love the West!
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
No twist
I do hope you are not making this more about winning a debate between you and I.
I am not here for that. But I feel you have become too invested in this to be able to see clearly and objective on some things.
While I continue to look at your links and respond appropriately and rationally ... at worse, I have dismissed some as globalist propaganda ... which is a valid explanation, you appear to refuse to look at the evidence I provide on Ivermectin.
Even if you do not see it now, at some point in time in the future the realisation will slap you in the face and I do hope it is sooner rather than later for your benefit, not mine.
Ivermectin is a safe drug (when taken in the correct dosages) that was frequently used as a repurposed drug in Australia prior to Covid-19. Do some research.
marble
Posts: 775
Date Joined: 03/09/09
You have the time to do the
You have the time to do the ResEaRch . Thats the beauty of the internet those with something they are gagging to "prove" Put enough time into the search and someone will have posted something somewhere that "proves" your theory . . .
PMY 25 Centre Console DF300 Suzuki
marble
Posts: 775
Date Joined: 03/09/09
Nobel winning drug . True .
Nobel winning drug . True . For worm treatment . . . You have your theories , then there is reality . . . Your mind is easily convinced when you read or hear something that agrees with your theories that what you are reading or hearing is truth . . . Simple minds and simple arguments
PMY 25 Centre Console DF300 Suzuki
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
Projecting much
A quick search for invermectin with dates between 2010 and 2019 and you find multiple studies containing such things as;
"Previous studies have shown ivermectin is very well tolerated and safe even up to 2,000 mcg/kg."
&
"Ivermectin mass drug administration (MDA) in humans to reduce malaria vectors is yet another use for this remarkable medicine whose discoverers shared the 2015 Nobel Prize in Medicine with the discoverer of artemisinin. The malaria community should join those who have long used ivermectin MDA in an integrated battle to break transmission of three vector-borne parasitic diseases."
A search for "Ivermectin" using duckduckgo.com with a custom date range of 1/1/2000 to 31/12/2019 (pre-covid);
Pubmed - Ivermectin and Malaria control.
WebMD - Once-Daily Ivermectin is a safe Rosacea treatment
A search for "Ivermectin" using google.com (with no date filter) and you get;
FDA (US) - why you should not use Ivermectin
TGA (AU) - new restrictions on prescribing Ivermectin
crasny1
Posts: 7003
Date Joined: 16/10/08
Sorry Andie
Couldnt help myself.
BK banned from other sites for spruiking this shit, then using a fishing forum because he might not be banned!!???
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
sea-kem
Posts: 14970
Date Joined: 30/11/09
More than likely mate
More than likely mate
Love the West!
Moondog
Posts: 131
Date Joined: 25/06/18
Hahaha who believed it would
Hahaha who believed it would stop transmission? You have got to be kidding me! Every second person was sprouting the ridiculous message it stopped covid and stopped transmission a year ago. I can't speak for you 2 blokes but I think you would of been in that group. The problem here is short memories and how many times the narrative changed. Now we are at the point where nobody believed it would stop the transmission
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8143
Date Joined: 07/05/12
I think you 'would of' (sic)
I think you 'would of' (sic) been in the group danging up bleach if doctors didn't come out and amazingly have to warn people against it
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
Oh no
Are you one of them who believed the mainstream propaganda that Trump said bleach?
He never said bleach ... the media did and the gullible masses believed it.
How is that Russia, Russia, Russia fake news narrative going ... did you believe that too?
lrp1
Posts: 75
Date Joined: 26/11/12
yeah, injecting disinfectant
yeah, injecting disinfectant and UV irradiation through skin and inside the body are PERFECTLY REASONABLE, SUPER PLAUSIBLE, and DEFINITELY HELPFUL suggestions (/s)
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
On a mission or something
Are you trying to convince us all just how easily duped you are by propaganda?
Trump mentioned two things, a disenfectant and use of UV light ... both of which were possibly viable, but not well known.
When you go camping and you want drinking water ... what do you do? You put chemical disinfectants in your water to kill the bacteria before you drink it. You do understand the water you drink out of your tap has disenfectant in it?
There is a very cheap product called MMS (a disenfectant type solution) which has been very successfully used to treat Malaria in poorer countries for decades. And of course that too was demonised by the FDA and the Trump hating media soon after.
And regarding UV light ... China use it to disenfect buses and when Trump said this, there was a US BioTech public company that had videos promoting a product they were developing where they could put a UV light down the esophogus of a patient and disenfect.
"A Cedars-Sinai research team is in the pre-clinical stages of developing a technology that harnesses intermittent ultraviolet (UV) A light for treating viruses and bacteria. The technology has not been tested or used on patients. Cedars-Sinai has filed for patents related to the technology and has signed a licensing agreement with Aytu BioScience with the aim of potentially enabling near-term use as a COVID-19 intervention for critically ill, intubated patients." April 2020.
sea-kem
Posts: 14970
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Yep you're correct there but
Yep you're correct there but by golly by Geeze close enough loooool , this is gold ,still has mileage and you back this bloke lol. Even his own staff were facepalming.
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/23/trump-bleach-one-year-484399
Love the West!
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
Wake up
Now I am the one facepalming.
You wonder why I back Trump? Maybe it was because during his presidency there were no wars, ISIS/Al Qaeda/Terrorists gone, tensions with N.Korea gone, economy booming, oil productions high, and then Biden gets in power and first week the Keystone Pipeline is cancelled, oil and energy prices rise, inflation up, share markets down, war in Ukraine (the same place his family had been doing corrupt dealings in), N.Korea running a muck, China doing as they wish, etc ...
A year ago I explained that Trump did not say Bleach and yet you again produce what is proven Fake News propaganda.
You even now admit Trump never said the word bleach and then still link to an article that says he does ... I mean why???
Some of you here need to break free from the shackles and realise you are supporting corrupt Globalist powers that are taking away your ability to think objectively. Just do some research and critical thinking of your own peoples.
While the propaganda machine went hammer and tongs after Trump because he didn't belong in their Globalist cabal, you happily turn a blind eye to President Biden who struggles to even function.
Go and search Biden gaffes (like 2 weeks ago when he tries to thank dead congress woman Jackie, but can't find her in the crowd) or Trump's latest compilation called "Let's get ready to bumble", or when Biden promised to cure cancer in his election campaign, search for Creepy Joe, or Hunter Biden's laptop (the Fake News claimed that was a conspiracy theory ... until it wasn't) and you may just maybe start to understand that you have been duped by the mainstream media propaganda once again.
sea-kem
Posts: 14970
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Face palm from me,Now I am
Face palm from me,
Now I am the one facepalming.
You wonder why I back Trump? Maybe it was because during his presidency there were no wars, ISIS/Al Qaeda/Terrorists gone, tensions with N.Korea gone, economy booming, oil productions high, and then Biden gets in power and first week the Keystone Pipeline is cancelled, oil and energy prices rise, inflation up, share markets down, war in Ukraine (the same place his family had been doing corrupt dealings in), N.Korea running a muck, China doing as they wish, etc .. Here's some feedback....
And how many people died under his watch from Covid? When he literally dragged his feet and came up with absolutely laughable treatments (like the video I posted ) Here's a link https://khn.org/news/nation-records-400000-covid-deaths-on-last-day-of-donald-trump-presidency/
And all while this fuck-knuckle repealed the health system Obama set up.
North Korea , what a joke and a comedy that was. Awesome publicity stunt, it did nothing for long term peace in that region. I'm actaully surprised you brought that up, he solved NOTHING there.
Keystone was a major environmental nightmare, with predicted oil spills devastating wildlife with a projected less than 1% increase in global oil production. I guess Biden weighed it up.
I think we all know why inflation is up, got nothing to do with Biden. It's the fallout from Covid, has happened in literally everycountry in the world not just the US.
Love the West!
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
critical thinking
In March 2020, when Trump was closing the international borders to China he was called a rascist.
There has been almost 700k (>690k) Covid-19 deaths since Trump, and Biden has been dealing with less fatal variants and the vaccines that Trump helped fast track.
Keystone was just one part of the Biden Administration's campaign against US Oil production.
Biden is currently desperately selling the US Strategic Reserves to try to make the situation and inflation look less dire before the upcoming midterm elections in a few weeks.
He even asked Saudi Arabia to postpone their planned cuts in production by a month to also help the election.
If Trump was caught doing such a thing he would have been impeached.
The increases in the cost of oil/energy is the driver for inflation, not Trump, and not Covid.
Cost of fuel in the US Jan '21 (Trump's last month) $2.25, Jun '22 $4.88 and has since dropped to Oct '22 $3.78.
US Oil production was much less in 2021 than both 2020 and 2019.
Do not be ignorant on such an obvious issue.
Have you bothered to look at any of those videos on Let's Go Brandon, Poopy Pants Biden yet?
sea-kem
Posts: 14970
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Ha ha ha if that's your take
Ha ha ha if that's your take on it so be it, but don't call me ignorant you arrogant flog.
Love the West!
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
but you were ignorant
You tried to blame Covid for the oil price rises.
Not even the Biden Administration are claiming that.
You also most likely were not aware of what I posted which clearly shows the Biden Administration is attempting to manipulate oil/energy prices in the US.
I still believe you were ignorant on the topic ... just like you were on Trump's bleach story.
Calling me arrogant has some credit when I call you ignorant.
Calling me a flog is ... well that's just your insecurities of being wrong again ... yep that's me being arrogant again.
sea-kem
Posts: 14970
Date Joined: 30/11/09
I said Covid was the trigger
I said Covid was the trigger for inflation, what part of that don't you get?
Not insecure just my belief which I still hold. Anyway enough of you , reckon you could talk underwater with a mouthfull of marbles.
Love the West!
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
You are correct my apologies
Yes you did say Covid was the trigger for inflation. My bad.
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8143
Date Joined: 07/05/12
Where did I mention Trump?
Where did I mention Trump?
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
sea-kem
Posts: 14970
Date Joined: 30/11/09
. Another anecdotal comment, you are cheap laughs lol.
Love the West!
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8143
Date Joined: 07/05/12
Anecdotally there's a 100%
Anecdotally there's a 100% chance that when asked what school he attended Moonunit fills out 'the school of hard knocks'
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
Moondog
Posts: 131
Date Joined: 25/06/18
This is a great game. Old
This is a great game. Old sea-kem keeps biting and little Jackie boy thinks covid is the same as asbestos for some strange reason!
Billcollector
Posts: 2080
Date Joined: 16/05/09
Pity all you guys don't put
Pity all you guys don't put this much effort into fighting fisheries instead of each other
. Way more important I would have thought.
Jackfrost80
Posts: 8143
Date Joined: 07/05/12
I got time for both Bill
I got time for both Bill
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
I agree
You may not be aware that I was posting in the fisheries proposals forum when some posters familiar with my past Covid-19 posts began trolling me.
I created this forum to take those distracting posts out of the fishing proposal forums.
I have since still been posting in the various fisheries proposals forums, providing extracts and information from various fisheries reports, often asking questions, seeking feedback and discussion on topics and getting little to no responses.
sea-kem
Posts: 14970
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Began trolling you ha ha
Began trolling you ha ha break out the fiddle again, YOU are the one who mentioned Covid on that thread and YOU are the one who started making comments regarding globalist conspiracy theories.
Don't cry when you get called out on it, you're happy to keep posting so take a spoonful of cement mate.
No one's canceled you, you've been free to spew your rhetoric.
You're possibly getting little to no responses on those other threads because a lot of people are aware of you conspiratory take, it's bullshit.
Love the West!
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
truth hurts
From the fishing proposals forum after I posted on the fishing proposals, I got the following responses (at which stage I had not mentioned Covid);
Swompa: Curious to know, are you guys vaccinated against Covid-19?
&
sea-kem: Good to see the resident cOnSPiraCy theorists contributing to the thread lol
Swompa's vaccinated post then kicked off a large number of other posters derailing the forum about the jabs.
I then posted if people wanted to talk Covid and jabs I would happily create a new forum ... which I later did when the large number of vaccine posts continued.
So once again we have a situation where I simply state facts and you try to turn it into some character attack laced with subjective emotive nonsense.
marble
Posts: 775
Date Joined: 03/09/09
You only post covid related
You only post covid related crap because the so called trolling is what you are after. Gives you an outlet for your rantings
PMY 25 Centre Console DF300 Suzuki
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
not true
I was one of the most active posters on the fisheries proposals.
It was other people talking about the Covid jabs that led to this forum.
And as already shown, it was entirely unprovoked trolling from others that raised the topic of the jabs in the fisheries proposal thread.
A discussion I stayed away from until I saw the jab talk from others junking up the proposals thread.
I would rather talk about the new proposals but that is not where the current interest is ... which is why both you and I are currently posting in this forum.
Like this post, many of my posts have been responding to other posts i believe to be inaccurate.
marble
Posts: 775
Date Joined: 03/09/09
I believe your
I believe your interpretations of the data you keep posting links too is inacurate as well . Your alse the most active on youur Jabby Jab topic as well . Anything to push the agenda i suppose
PMY 25 Centre Console DF300 Suzuki
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
your interpretation
What is your interpretation of the data ... other than a subjective belief it is inaccurate.
And what agenda would i have ... an agenda to show there are agendas behind those pushing vaccines ... rather ironic that people are concerned by my agenda that has absolutely no effect on their lives while they choose to quickly dismiss other agendas that do.
carnarvonite
Posts: 8667
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Enough is enough
Had more than enough of this bullshit, if Bluey wants to sprout his beliefs ok but don't expect me to be influenced by any of his arguments.
I have my own beliefs and they are poles apart from his and this is the last time I will comment on his thread'
Goodbye Bluey and good riddance