Karratha Iron Ore ships catching/killing sailfish
Submitted by Mr Bigalow on Tue, 2012-04-17 19:41
2 times this month i heard and seen photos of crew aboard the iron ore ships off karratha hauling sailfish up the back of the ships, (cliff gaff).
From what i have heard:
A) Foreign ships cannot catch fish in australian waters?
B) Would they need a fishing license?
The fella showing me the photos said he spoke to fisheries and they cant do anything about it...
Thoughts?
____________________________________________________________________________
A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.
sea-kem
Posts: 15021
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Why can't they do anything
Why can't they do anything about it?? If in Aust waters then don't Aust laws apply?
Love the West!
harry_davis
Posts: 71
Date Joined: 05/06/11
Total Bull crap... killing
Total Bull crap... killing sails is so crappy, as they are such a good sports fish, if this goes on future generations will not expirience the fight of a sail-fish... things like this is the reason our fish stocks are being depleated...
Limit your kill, Don't kill your limit...
Muppet
Posts: 408
Date Joined: 23/11/09
sounds like crap to me
I would think that if they are in west australian waters and are fishing recreationally, they would have to possess the same licences as any west aussie.
For arguements sake, if they did have the licence, there would be nothing preventing them from keeping the catch. (but why would you ??)
The other thing is, i'm just taking a stab, is there something to do with an international vessel fishing in australian waters under maritime / commonwealth law ?
i'll ask one of the fisheries guys down here, cause now i'm curious.
cheers
.
Leeder-on
Posts: 9
Date Joined: 23/04/12
Hi Muppet, did ask fisheries
Hi Muppet, did ask fisheries and find out that info?? Need as much info we can get for media to stop them raping our seas illegally.
MattMiller
Posts: 4171
Date Joined: 15/06/09
So i'm guessing
there doing this?
http://fishwrecked.com/image/daily-occurance-dampier-billies
Rob H
Posts: 5807
Date Joined: 18/01/12
thoughts were requested-heres mine
to people who sportfish for sailys, this sucks I guess.
The other side of the coin-these crews are Indos, Philipinos, Ukraines etc who get paid 5/8ths of f-all to spend most of their lives away from their families just to scrape together a living.
While there is a big problem in Aus with foreign flagged and crewed ships plying our commonwealth waters, its not the fault of these guys.
I say let them have this one pleasure-they wont be doing it at 14 knots while travelling and if these guys are pulling multiples of them up on a daily basis out of an area just a couple of miles across, well it must be the best bloody sailfishery ever!
They are pelagic so I seriously doubt thered be any danger of extinction unless the Dampier ship anchorage happened to be the only breeding area in the Eastern Indian Ocean area.
Personally I have travelled in and out of Dampier hundreds of times and never witnessed this or heard anyone else comment aboard.
Im not saying make it legal as that would sanction it.
I know some wont agree with this, but thoughts were requested!
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
nev
Posts: 193
Date Joined: 04/02/09
Seafarers International Agreement I reckon
So really every Australian that works international should carry fishing licenses when they work throughout the world too ? What about all the yachties that sail around the world, they should be made to pay as well hey? At least you would find that the fish being caught off those ships would be getting eaten and nothing would be wasted. What a load of bullshit!
sarcasm0
Posts: 1396
Date Joined: 25/06/09
Bit of a weak defeatist attitude
Yes if you are in their territorial waters you should follow their rules or licence requirements. Would you have the same opinions about running drugs in a vessel, Indonesian people smugglers?? The bottom line is, its illegal, there are laws to prevent it so why shouldnt we enforce it?
I am in Canada atm on a working visa and just got an Ontario fishing licence for about 4 times the price of what a local pays annually, when im only going to be in ON for about 2 1/2 months, but I did it because thats the law.
I agree its a fast growing species and better than taking demersals but still. Sounds pretty weak to me.
Rob H
Posts: 5807
Date Joined: 18/01/12
good point Nev
If Fisheries were to board these vessels and fine these guys for it, honestly to these seamen it would look a bit like the supermarket padlocking the rubbish bins to stop less fortunate people "pinching" it.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
dodgy
Posts: 4580
Date Joined: 01/02/10
Never seen a vessel at anchor
Never seen a vessel at anchor off dampier that didn't have a line or 6 off the stern.
Seriously doubt they would catch more than a couple a day. Plenty of sails out there.
Legally wrong? yes.
Ethically wrong? open to discussion depending on your viewpoint and ethnic background.
Enviromentally wrong? Not a chance. Better to take a sail than a 40 year old Red Emperor or Spango.
Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
grantarctic1
Posts: 2546
Date Joined: 03/03/11
Ok
Ok, long story but i'll try to keep it short.
When i started catching Pink Snapper in the Sound, i fished the usual spots. D9 , Pinaclles etc. Then started to fish the commercial jetty's, mainly BHP .
One night i tied up to the jetty and a worker came down to ask us to move after he pulled up the three set lines they had fixed to the pilons, on the end of one a nice 8 to 10kg snapper was quickly bagged.
My mate and i argued that we wern't doing anything wrong and the ship docked there was fishing as well. We watched the guy's on the ship land over 100 undersized snapper , with none released.
The answer was, ( The ship is classed as ) (Under its own country's law and controlled by its own government) (We can not board that ship or enforce our laws apon it or anyone on it )
I don't know how true this is , but as we saw the 3 guys that boarded the Japanese ship not long ago, were charged as if they were on Japanese soil.
sarcasm0
Posts: 1396
Date Joined: 25/06/09
SEAS AND SUBMERGED LANDS ACT 1973 - SCHEDULE Parts
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/sasla1973207/sch1.html
PART II
TERRITORIAL SEA AND CONTIGUOUS ZONE
SECTION 1. GENERAL PROVISIONS
Article 2
Legal status of the territorial sea, of the air space over the territorial sea and of its bed and subsoil
1. The sovereignty of a coastal State extends, beyond its land territory and internal waters and, in the case of an archipelagic State, its archipelagic waters, to an adjacent belt of sea, described as the territorial sea.
2. This sovereignty extends to the air space over the territorial sea as well as to its bed and subsoil.
3. The sovereignty over the territorial sea is exercised subject to this Convention and to other rules of international law.
SECTION 2. LIMITS OF THE TERRITORIAL SEA
Article 3
Breadth of the territorial sea
Every State has the right to establish the breadth of its territorial sea up to a limit not exceeding 12 nautical miles, measured from baselines determined in accordance with this Convention.
-----------------------------------
SECTION 3. INNOCENT PASSAGE IN THE TERRITORIAL SEA
SUBSECTION A. RULES APPLICABLE TO ALL SHIPS
Article 17
Right of innocent passage
Subject to this Convention, ships of all States, whether coastal or land‑locked, enjoy the right of innocent passage through the territorial sea.
Article 18
Meaning of passage
1. Passage means navigation through the territorial sea for the purpose of:
(a) traversing that sea without entering internal waters or calling at a roadstead or port facility outside internal waters; or
(b) proceeding to or from internal waters or a call at such roadstead or port facility.
2. Passage shall be continuous and expeditious. However, passage includes stopping and anchoring, but only in so far as the same are incidental to ordinary navigation or are rendered necessary by force majeure or distress or for the purpose of rendering assistance to persons, ships or aircraft in danger or distress.
Article 19
Meaning of innocent passage
1. Passage is innocent so long as it is not prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the coastal State. Such passage shall take place in conformity with this Convention and with other rules of international law.
2. Passage of a foreign ship shall be considered to be prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the coastal State if in the territorial sea it engages in any of the following activities:
(a) any threat or use of force against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of the coastal State, or in any other manner in violation of the principles of international law embodied in the Charter of the United Nations;
(b) any exercise or practice with weapons of any kind;
(c) any act aimed at collecting information to the prejudice of the defence or security of the coastal State;
(d) any act or propaganda aimed at affecting the defence or security of the coastal State;
(e) the launching, landing or taking on board of any aircraft;
(f) the launching, landing or taking on board of any military device;
(g) the loading or unloading of any commodity, currency or person contrary to the customs, fiscal, immigration or sanitary laws and regulations of the coastal State;
(h) any act of wilful and serious pollution contrary to this Convention;
(i) any fishing activities;
(j) the carrying out of research or survey activities;
(k) any act aimed at interfering with any systems of communication or any other facilities or installations of the coastal State;
(l) any other activity not having a direct bearing on passage.
grantarctic1
Posts: 2546
Date Joined: 03/03/11
Thats all good
Thats all good sarcasm0, but who actualy enforces the law.?
I am not questioning the law or facts, but it appears no one want to charge these people cause its too hard .
I have seen crewman leave these ships and ask to swap fish for fishing gear or commodity, currency. ie (g) (i).
And we all have seen the flip flop,s and other flotsom that cover our beaches up north . (h) but do any of them ever get charged over these acts.?
My story was just what i was told, and i tried to find out what i could do. Fisheries told me it was too hard to follow up , too many ships come in and out to bother about a few small snapper.
I must say that this was about 7 years ago and am noy sure how they would react now.
sarcasm0
Posts: 1396
Date Joined: 25/06/09
Who enforces the laws?
Customs, Port Authority, Fisheries officers, AFP, Water Police, they are all responsible and if enough people kick up a stink it will happen. Anyway, seems to be a fair amount of apathy from our authorities and from some of the responses above people think that is ok. Next time if someone tries to sprout some shit about legality some people might know the answer or where to look on the internet.
I find it kind of funny many people(not all) on this site seem to be accepting about the implementation of more marine sanctuaries, cuts to bag allowances etc while here is a prime example of a law being broken and our enforcement system has chucked it into the too hard basket. How are they going to police any further changes when they wont follow through on the ones we have already got.
Im on holiday in Canada so im about to head out and discover Montreal. Enjoy.
grantarctic1
Posts: 2546
Date Joined: 03/03/11
I uderstand
I understand what you are saying , and appreciate the info you supplied.
I have the fisheries number in my phone and call it often about things i see. To be honest the response i get is pathetic. I know they are tied up with bigger worries than a few under sized skippy at E Shed, etc. And like you have said to introduce rules they can't police realy is a waist of time.
Looking forward to a report from Canada mate, That is one place i'd like to visit .
Cheers Grant..
Rob H
Posts: 5807
Date Joined: 18/01/12
as Ive put above Grantartic,
as Ive put above Grantartic, I tend to agree on your stance.
IF there was so many being caught and IF it was really going to cause a problem then take a stand for sure.
But as someone else mentioned above, there are Aus yatchs around the world who chuck a line out the back for a feed, effectively doping the same thing.
And if these guys are really catching that many when anchoring in EXACTLY the same spot on a 200000 tonne bulky for years, then theres really only a couple of scenarios
1/ They are prolific
2/ These guys know how to catch them better than locals
If they were launching their longboats and roaring up the creeks etc Id say Fisheries should tear them a new blowhole.
But otherwise???
There is never likely to be more ships, only bigger with less crew and quicker turnaround.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Lastchance
Posts: 1273
Date Joined: 02/02/09
Oh I see, as long as they
Oh I see, as long as they stay out on the horizon in the anchorage its ok, nice one. Heaven forbid they 'roar' up a creek and take a few barra.
What they are doing is illegal and thats it. Its not about if its 'going to cause a real problem then take a stand'
Look at some of the outbursts on here when some stooge keeps a few undersized tailor. Thats also illegal.
And why is there never likely to be more ships?
Rob H
Posts: 5807
Date Joined: 18/01/12
"And why is there never
"And why is there never likely to be more ships".
because the reason they are sitting there is waiting for cargo, and probably getting paid demurrage=$millions cost for the mining companies
The loaders are working flatout all the time so the only way for Rio etc to get more ore out is to load quicker, which means shorter waiting times.
Also because the bulkies are getting bigger with less crew on them all the time. There is a new class being built now for the chinese market called Valemax, 400,000 tonnes.
Its not a hard bet that eventually they'll be here as well.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Leeder-on
Posts: 9
Date Joined: 23/04/12
If this was facebook I would
If this was facebook I would have "Liked" that. So true what your saying and we need more people to support this.
dodgy
Posts: 4580
Date Joined: 01/02/10
Both A and B there rob.
Both A and B there rob.
Plenty of them there and the seamen are quite good at catching them. The iron ore carriers act as a fad and baitfish crowd around them for cover. This attracts the predators.
The seamen use bait jigs to catch live bait and then put them out on large handlines and catch marlin, sails and macks.
Locals fish the ships all the time.
Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
pricey10
Posts: 486
Date Joined: 07/01/12
.
The other thing is when we go fishing out here as rec fisherman we are closely monitored by fisheries. We have bag limits and size limits to stick to Evan with the guide lines the arcaphaligo is not that abundant with fish unless you do the miles. Every 2nd house in karratha has a boat and now we have all the iron ore ships out there fishing to. There is atleast 6 ships parked out at any given time and by the sound of it they have an free rain to catch and take what they want! And really the odd fish ain't to bad but fisheries or no one is watching them so how many fish are getting taken? In the last 3 times I've been out twice I have seen them fishing and I only go out every 2 weeks. So the impression im getting is fisheries think it's fine to annoy the locals but don't care about the foreign iron ore ships which are out 24/7?? How is this fair?
Karratha. WA
kane
Posts: 1752
Date Joined: 07/12/08
yep,
send the photos to the newspapers / media and let them do the work, about time they did something useful instead of following ben cousins around ;-)
Gooooone Fishin!
pricey10
Posts: 486
Date Joined: 07/01/12
Haha good point
Haha good point
Karratha. WA
Mr Bigalow
Posts: 64
Date Joined: 11/12/11
Yer well thats fine we can
Yer well thats fine we can fish in their waters... oh wait there are no fish left...
A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.
Dizzy
Posts: 753
Date Joined: 21/02/11
Exactly. Screw the bleeding
Exactly.
Screw the bleeding hearts & violins.
The mentalities of these locust cultures have no place here.
And to have it rubbed in by knowing fisheries ignore them while flogging locals just makes it more frustrating.
ben89
Posts: 100
Date Joined: 10/05/11
Aussie yachts may fish in
Aussie yachts may fish in other countries but its upto them to deal with that just like it is upto us to deal with these guys fishing illegally in our waters
slam
Posts: 168
Date Joined: 09/09/09
Spoken with fisheries
Spoken with fisheries about this subject & luckily spoke with an officer that did police the NW. He assured me that they are aware of these issues & are boarding vessels when required via their RIBs.
I asked if there was any public information regarding charges laid which is available thru public records at the courts where processed.
I guess not much more can be done apart from keep on to fishwatch as & when.
Willlo
Posts: 1490
Date Joined: 07/10/11
Dont know what you mean Rob
Dont know what you mean Rob by saying there is never likely to be more ships, i dont believe that for one minute. But back on subject i spoke with customs today and was told that the heads of both depts have to get together over this for anything positive to happen. The CPT's of the foreign ships are given by the agents a list of requirements needed for berthing in Aus waters, these requirements have to do with quarantine, immigration matters etc and they follow them or arent allowed to berth. Surely Fisheries could have a letterhead drawn up to state the rules and regs of taking fish in Aust waters and have it presented to them by customs or the attending ships agent. Doesnt sound to difficult in theory but Customs and Quarantine are both Fed depts and Fisheries is a State Dept so maybe that is the fall down in communication. Have worked in the shipping industry for over 25 yrs and this has always pissed me off watching bulk and undersize fish being hoarded by these crew. Its not just happening up north but in just about every port around the world.The crew on the ships dont know any better so they will continue to do it until educated by the Authorities. Most of the crew on these ships are either Chinese or Philipino and are allowed a US$5 a day budget to feed them, so taking on a feed of fresh fish when they can is an advantage to them,i can understand why they do it but it still pisses me off, so contact local Fisheries and Customs and make a noise over it and hopefully something will be done, just dont hold your breath.After all they are Govt departments.
Call Sign - BZ785
Haynes Hunter Prowler CC
pale ale
Posts: 1755
Date Joined: 02/01/10
On thursday, customs and
On thursday, customs and border protection boat did a lap throughout the moored ships. Maybe they were collating evidence.
Every ship we trolled past had lines off the stern, and I do have a photo of a sail being winched up a few years ago. This photo is on an old XD card and I cant upload it.
Anyway, the sails are firing.
Adam Gallash
Posts: 15652
Date Joined: 29/11/05
contact me
Can one of you Karratha boys with access to the sailfish being brought up photo email me asap:
Site Admin - Just ask if you need assistance
Leeder-on
Posts: 9
Date Joined: 23/04/12
Hi Adam, you can use any of
Hi Adam, you can use any of those photos i emailed you the other day to put on here for the others to see. the one on the blue & red ship was only taking about 10 days ago. that one u already have on here was last year, to show its been going on and getting ignored for too long. cheers Sherri
Dizzy
Posts: 753
Date Joined: 21/02/11
Good Stuff Adam, Surely the
Good Stuff Adam,
Surely the Current Affairs media etc would be all over a story behind dramatic images such as this ??? :
(Would certainly hit a nerve with the more "patriotic" Aussies)
Adam Gallash
Posts: 15652
Date Joined: 29/11/05
yup
Just sourcing the permission of the photo owner.
Site Admin - Just ask if you need assistance
crasny1
Posts: 7003
Date Joined: 16/10/08
Would be nice for more off the boys to get more evidence
Snap away lads. Intent to fish is as good a proof as seeing one hauled up. You need a licence to fish from a boat.
When I make it out there, I will snap away for sure.
neels
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
Leeder-on
Posts: 9
Date Joined: 23/04/12
We troll around this ships regularly
We troll arond these ships regularly & have noticed this year there are heaps more ships with fishing lines, float, etc hanging off the stern. they have lights hanging off there too for night fishing and bait and water coming out ship to attract bait to catch our poor sailys, marlin & fish. Yes heaps of us have witnessed this and really not happy about it.
I have also spoke to people who work on the ships jettys and said the foriegn ships crews all say they fish when they are anchored waiting to come into port! they even fish when they're being loaded, when Dampier Port has strict rules of No Fishing! another lady told me she worked on both warves & said the had sailfish & buckets of fish in their cool rooms all the time. Unfortunately she didnt think this was an issue & wouldn't pass on her photos. They fish mostly at night, what we are seeing during the day is them catching enough bait fish to fish with at night. People have witnessed up to 10 sail fish & bucket loads of fish in the ships cool rooms & the crew have told them they make big money selling them back home!!
HOW CAN ANYONE THINK THAT IS OK?? THEY ARE RAPING OUR OCEANS ILLEGALLY!!
We are talking up to 20 ships anchored for days in Dampier, then there is the same problem in Port Hedland and I guess Cape Lambert & Broome will be witnessing the same, let alone the rest of Australia! No-one is out there at night, so we believe this would be when most of the fishing would be done. I seen 7 fishing lines hanging off 1 ship last Thurs & about 10 crew leaning over the rails waving to me while I took photos.
Its more disapointing when we report this to our own fisheries / Fish Watch and get told there isn't really anything they can do about it, when they are obligated to protect our fish.
Anyone who thinks they can help support us to stop this or have any photos or evidience of the ships illegally catching our fish that we can pass onto the media, please reply on here thanks. we really all need to stick together to help stop this. also if anyone knows more about any of the actual rules that apply to them, ie: Customs, Fisheries, Dampier Port etc & what rules Rio Tinto set out to them.
Cheers anglers, hope you can all support us:) Anyone got a infa-red video camera??
Brucesta
Posts: 1721
Date Joined: 29/05/09
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ST5xGGoGcI
Here's some video evidence froma few years back from Webby's youtube vid.
Las Vegas - Rolling the dice and trying your luck. 1M+ Barra summer target. 100kg Black Marlin winter target
crasny1
Posts: 7003
Date Joined: 16/10/08
Just spoke to the fisheries manager Pilbara
They are aware and have been about this.
Have been educating the shipping agents for yrs about this, and now most off the vessels have actually procured licences for their crew. Obviously at the moment not all have "followed" the rules, but most off the agents now order RBFL for the crew.
Not perfect but a start.
Fisheries are aware of the site, and also Karratha and Port hedland "Moan and Groan" Facebook sites that have bitterly complained about it.
Not my opinion just information.
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
kmo
Posts: 127
Date Joined: 17/01/12
If they have a license
If they have a license it is fair game isn't it? Catching and eating a fish is no worse than hooking one and feeding it to the sharks imo. I've gone overseas on fishing trips and killed a few foreign fish for food, as have a lot of my mates. I can't see the difference if these guys do the same.
If the locals are using the ore carriers as FADs they probably can't complain if the ore carrier crew are doing the same, assuming they have a license and follow all the laws.
pale ale
Posts: 1755
Date Joined: 02/01/10
How many kg's do they have in
How many kg's do they have in the freezer? That is my main question.
They may just purchase 1 or 2 licenses, but have 400kg of fish in the freezer. It would not take long to rack up a few hundred kgs. eg 4 sailfish = 100kg. 10 nice makeral = 200kg. A couple sharks is another 200kg. (they can have the sharks) etc
It was stated on a facebook page that they stock up on fish then sell them when they go overseas. Dunno if it is true, but could well be.
kmo
Posts: 127
Date Joined: 17/01/12
How many kg's do they have in the freezer?
The same question could be asked of anyone who fishes for large pelagics or deep-drop demersals on even a semi regular basis.
Mr Bigalow
Posts: 64
Date Joined: 11/12/11
Should have to be a Australian Citizen
Should have to be a Australian Citizen to be able to purchase a fishing license....
cut there lines easy fix...
A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.
sarcasm0
Posts: 1396
Date Joined: 25/06/09
Dunno if I agree with that
As others have said, what about international sailors who buy licences to comply, or myself who is currently in Ontario Canada and going on my first camping/fishing mission this weekend. I bought a licence cause it was the law and as non local I paid more than 4 times their rate to do so.