Kayaks Might Fly!!!
Coming up at the end of this month, i am going down south for the Murray White Water Festival, as one of my collegues is involved with the white water kayaking boys, and our company Royal Wolf Trading is sponsoring the event.
They have asked me to design and build a "kicker ramp" to replace the one they had last year, which was a bit agricultural, to say the least.
Now when i build something, i like to build big. So let me explain exactly what a "kicker ramp" is.. Basically its a ramp, that the small white water kayaks shoot down, then launch of the end of into the river, giving them enough air time to pull a few tricks.
Fair enough i say, got any pics of last years i ask, so they sent me a link to there webpage:
http://murraywhitewaterfestival.blogspot.com/
And a gallery of the "kicker" from last year:
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/XuSrFqWPG3Z7oklR443DgA
so i had a look, and thought, yeah no dramas, i can build something like that. So i put pencil to paper and came up with this...
Hmm, 6.2m tall, 6.8m long, little bigger than last year, should be okay, there brave boys...
So the other night a few of the guys popped in and gave me a hand to start the construction, we did well, drank a few coldies and ate pizza afterwards, and it comes to light that this thing is looking a little scary...
He he he, so i thought, maybe i should point out that these guys shoot river rapids, and are fairly brave boys, and its not really that big, and sure the fire fighting pump pushing water down will help keep there speed up.....
Gonna be a ripper party down there, and when this thing is complete, it will certainly be a sight to see!!
Should be a blast!!!!
Colin Hay
Posts: 10407
Date Joined: 23/10/07
Nice one Brett
Looks a very solid bit of equipment mate.
Pretty exciting result for the Australian in the kayak's yesterday at the Olympics.
(Colin 1 - Co-founding member of the prestigious Colin Club)
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hlokk
Posts: 4292
Date Joined: 04/04/08
Sounds like a pretty cool
Sounds like a pretty cool idea.
The curves seem a bit strange though, did they use a similar design last year?
Just wondering whether the ramp is too steep or the water delaminates at that point. Also, what length are the kayaks? Also how thick is the water sheet.
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Dreamweaver
Posts: 4688
Date Joined: 01/12/07
Crazzzzzzzy!
Good grief Brett - that's one crazy entry style LOL. My ticker would be a flicker on that kicker!
Colin Molloy
(Colin 2 - Co-founding member of the prestigious Colin Club)
Soon to be de "dreamweaver" ed!
Albee Mangles
Posts: 985
Date Joined: 20/05/08
Strange you say?
Similar, yet very basic. The Kayaks are the white water jobbies with lengths up to 1.5m, massive rocker. The water will be very thin. Steeper the better, and the steepness will also adjust the AoA (angle of departure!@!)
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Brett Ozanne
hlokk
Posts: 4292
Date Joined: 04/04/08
Actually you want to be
Actually you want to be careful with the steepness. Theoretically, its only the height that will affect the final speed, but due to the friction of the water, steeper will be better depending on intial water velocity. If its too steep at the start, the water is going to break away from the metal as its a simple curve. In that case, the water is not going to support the kayak properly and you'll loose speed. It depends on the water velocity though. Unlikely to be too much of a problem unless the water is really jetting out (you'd have reasonable surface effects too).
However, i'd be concerned that you are going to loose a lot of speed at the bottom of the ramp. Because of the angle and the curve (simple curve) you're going to loose energy (quite likely the kayak will hit the bottom). To give an idea of what a simple curve is. Imagine a line, then a circle tangential to it (as drawn on the diagram). Imagine driving along it in a car, and consider what the steering wheel would have to do and you'll get an idea of why simple curves arent always great :p
The diagram is missing a dimension, so i'm not sure what the actual angle of departure is. Are you wanting to go for maximum height or maximum distance? You want aproximately 45 degrees for max dist theoretically, a bit steeper for max height, but if its steep and you dont have enough speed coming into it the kayak is going to land vertically pretty close to the ramp. If you have a small extension ramp, then curl down the end of it you will reduce the exit rotation (this depends on the speed of the water)
I dont have any concerns of it not working, but I think you might loose a bit of final velocity compared to what you could get if you changed the curves at the bottom a little. Need more details to confirm, but I drew it to scale and did a few calcs, so take it as a hunch on my part, not anything definate :p
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Always interested in someone to go fishing with
Albee Mangles
Posts: 985
Date Joined: 20/05/08
She'll be right mate.
Over my 12 years as a boilermaker, eventually you will figure out that sometimes the textbooks dont tell the full story.
It'll work mate, if it doesnt, i will make it work.
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"Guaranteed to catch fish mate, promise!"
Brett Ozanne
Rodrat
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Date Joined: 13/01/07
Would be a great to watch
Good luck with the ramp brett.
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D_DOUSH
Posts: 497
Date Joined: 23/12/07
im going to keep me my mouth
im going to keep me my mouth shut
Deckhand and member of the Gotone Woodvale team
D_DOUSH
Posts: 497
Date Joined: 23/12/07
experience is most of the
experience is most of the time better than theory, looks good mate hope the boys have fun!!!!
Deckhand and member of the Gotone Woodvale team
hlokk
Posts: 4292
Date Joined: 04/04/08
AFAIK, boilermaking doesnt
AFAIK, boilermaking doesnt require velocities though
. Steelwork looks good though.
I'm sure it will work, but with some pretty minor changes it could work better though
You'd really only need to change the bottom section from a full circle a little and you'd avoid the kayaks hitting the bottom of the ramp and loosing speed.
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Always interested in someone to go fishing with
Rodrat
Posts: 1672
Date Joined: 13/01/07
Hlokk
You should make one and show us all how it's done!
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feral1975
Posts: 638
Date Joined: 22/02/07
go on hlokk , make one and
go on hlokk , make one and we'll try it out
hlokk
Posts: 4292
Date Joined: 04/04/08
Dont assume just because
Dont assume just because I know the theory that I havent had any experience designing or building ramps
If you want to keep the design as is, thats fine. Just trying to be helpful with some suggestions that give the kayakers more air. It'll make sense if you visualise the car example. For a car to turn like that you'd need to instantly jerk the steering wheel to the side and you can imagine what that would do to the car (providing you had the infinite force to move the steering wheel :p)
Feral1975, I suck at welding, but can post a pic to show you what I mean? Not sure if I have any photos of the ramps I've built (may have some at home though).
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Always interested in someone to go fishing with
feral1975
Posts: 638
Date Joined: 22/02/07
no comment!
no comment!
hlokk
Posts: 4292
Date Joined: 04/04/08
I said it would work btw :p
I said it would work btw
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Always interested in someone to go fishing with
7739ian
Posts: 948
Date Joined: 25/06/08
Rather them than me
and it will be bloody cold. Not to interrupt a nice little technical discussion - but 1.5m Kayaks? Won't their feet stick out the end?
Andy
Posts: 522
Date Joined: 08/10/05
looks like sic fun would
looks like sic fun would love to give it a shot on a skateboard before it got wet!
the steel work looks the goods too.
Bloke
Posts: 440
Date Joined: 26/02/08
LOL
I've found this thread to be ammusing yet disturbing at the same time, some people just never learn do they.
Brett, if those dumb paddlers had Hobies they wouldnt need a ramp
Pedal power rulzzzzz
Al.
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SPESS
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mmmmm say
mmmmmmmmmmmmm i say nutttting! nice desighn mate let us know how she goes, cheers.
Keep it tight, reeeeeeel tight!
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Albee Mangles
Posts: 985
Date Joined: 20/05/08
No worries fellas!
Yeah i'll be polishing it off tomorrow night, so i'll chuck up a few pics. On the weekender, i'll make sure i get some great footage of the carnage!!
Its gonna be frikken hilarious watching these dudes, there already a bit nervous it seems. We gonna get an old bmx, or a skateboard for the day too! Should be a hoot.
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"Guaranteed to catch fish mate, promise!"
Brett Ozanne
Dreamweaver
Posts: 4688
Date Joined: 01/12/07
Hey Brett! - Olympics
We wanna see the pics!
LMAO on the BMX and Skateboard - what a HOOT!
In line with the Olympics, maybe you could get two skateboards and do some syncronised events
- somehow I don't think we're gonna get 'bubble' entries LOL.
Top steel work Brett - looks to be a big improvement mate - well done.
I still think ya all mad LOL
Colin Molloy
(Colin 2 - Co-founding member of the prestigious Colin Club)
Soon to be de "dreamweaver" ed!
brenz
Posts: 2182
Date Joined: 15/06/06
looks the goods to me i
looks the goods to me i recon there will be no problem at all .
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feral1975
Posts: 638
Date Joined: 22/02/07
albee , thats a mean ramp ,
albee , thats a mean ramp , and you'll definatly have to post up some footage of it in use , reminds me of my old home built skate board ramp .
kaneo
Posts: 340
Date Joined: 09/01/08
who do u work for albee
who do u work for albee
saltatrix
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Date Joined: 30/03/08
Anyone seen the railway
Anyone seen the railway track sloping down the opposite hill at Pemberton Pools?
The track heads up the hill some 100 metres plus. The rail track was greased up then people would sled down skimming across the pool at a rapid rate.
I think when someone decided to ride someone elses shoulders on the sled they decided to pull it down.
Anyone know the track?
Angling tourism is worth $10 billion to the Australian economy - 90000 jobs; more than any sport; spread the word
Shorty
Posts: 1549
Date Joined: 10/05/08
Albee test pilot
I want to see Albee be the test pilot for this, we have to make sure its safe after all .
Word on the street is Albee caught a big pinky trolling from his kayak today in Cocburn Sound ,no welding today i am sure of that.
Colin 3 > long standing and highly respect member of the prestigous Colin's club.