Log in, log out with Sea Rescue
Just got off the phone to our local police, got a report of a car and trailer parked up in the new boat ramp car park with the weather not suitable IMO for small boats to be out.
Seems three people on a 6.1 metre boat are in for a very uncomfortable night over at the islands with the wind blowing from the north and there being only one very small anchorage [if you know it] that gives protection.
They haven't logged in with sea rescue and if something does happen we have no clue on where they will be if we have to find them. The cops traced the vehicle and trailer rego and spoke to the father of the owner who gave us a heads up but still with out the detail that we will need.
They will also be finding a kind note to drop in at the police station when they return because the sergeant doesn't approve of having a possible search to deal with.
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
Fair enough I think
Spending a couple of minutes to log on to the local search and rescue group can save a bit of heart burn for the locals, that's presuming they have a radio of course.
Doooma
Posts: 791
Date Joined: 05/12/09
We got in around 2:30pm ish
We got in around 2:30pm ish and it was pretty bloody lumpy out!!! Wind looks like it might drop off tomorrow to about 10 knots.
we only planned to hit the shoals though, so if it did turn crappy, it would be a nice ride home on the back of a wave all the way in! Which we did!!
I wouldn't be hitting islands with northerly though :-(
dodgy
Posts: 4578
Date Joined: 01/02/10
Be prepared for another one
Be prepared for another one coming from my way with not much of a clue carnarvonite. Logged in with us from Broome heading south and got confused between NM and Kms and steamed straight past. Some great coastal nav skills on display.
Im out at daybreak looking for an overdue vessel. Fun and games all round.
Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
carnarvonite
Posts: 8672
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Ex cray?
Was that an excray boat with a black hull. Arrived yesterday, moored up for a week then off to Dongara
Rob H
Posts: 5806
Date Joined: 18/01/12
that NM/km thing is a bigger
that NM/km thing is a bigger problem than most think
Regularly (Ive put this on here before) weather "presenters" (they are obviously not forecasters) reading the marine forecast in kmh.
All of us who are mariners know that no forecasters provide a marine forecast in kmh hence the forecast is nearly 50% out when 40kn is read as 40kmh.
The chickens will come home to roost on this eventually.
Theres a dam good reason why nautical miles and knots are the marine standard but its lost on those who know only how navigate with a GPS unfortunately.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
dodgy
Posts: 4578
Date Joined: 01/02/10
That's the one. Nothing like
That's the one. Nothing like picking it up as you go along. Good to see he managed to miss most of the bad weather.
Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
Shark1
Posts: 1086
Date Joined: 21/05/12
carnarvonite idoicity is
carnarvonite
idoicity is sadly not against the law, there is no mandatory log on rule
sadly they are well within their rights as long as they have all appropriate safety gear -hopefully spending a really uncomfartable night will teach em some common sense
carnarvonite
Posts: 8672
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Wish list
Though I don't think it will happen, its one thing that I would like to see being compulsory, log in log out, after all its your arse that we have to save if things go wrong.
Most don't know the rigmarole that we have to go through when someone rings up and says so and so is overdue, we will have little to go on like where they were going to fish, where they would move to if no fish at first, second, third spots etc, its a huge ocean when you are looking for one small dot. To give an example, we have boats that log in and say they are going to the islands!!! the islands cover almost 25nm!!! so now we ask them to be more specific, Cape St Crique down the south of Dorre Island, the Gap in the middle, White beach on the east side of Dorre, Red Cliff or the Muck hole on the inside of Bernier Island or Koks Island on the northern tip of Bernier, that way it gives us something to work on if a search is needed. If you change spots by more than 4nm notify us, we don't want your secret spots [probably have them already and most of the radio operators are retired and don't fish anyway] plus it only takes up one line on the log sheet. A courtesy call when you arrive at your destination and when you are leaving to head home doesn't go astray either, it cuts down the search area immensely
roberta
Posts: 2773
Date Joined: 08/07/08
I just hope
that the 40 plus boats that were out yesterday here in Leeman logged on.
Ginger Tablets Rock
Doooma
Posts: 791
Date Joined: 05/12/09
Any word yet Carnarvonite?id
Any word yet Carnarvonite?
id rather help search for them if needed today rather than tomorrow when the breeze is back up n a bit more swell due to hit!
Did the cops find out if they had planned to do an overnighter or were they due back yesterday?
carnarvonite
Posts: 8672
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Word
Haven't heard anything as yet, could be another of the ones who think that nothing will happen to me and turn the radio off to save power or don't like the noise.
Rob H
Posts: 5806
Date Joined: 18/01/12
we probably do have to
we probably do have to remember that while they havent logged in with VMR, that doesnt necessarily mean they have been totally irresponsible as such.
It may well be the case that (as I sometimes do) they have left all the details with someone ashore.
Given the sparse coverage at the Abrolhos, I do sometimes just leave written instructions at home and check in by text which is pretty reliable.
VMR I guess cant do that due to the risk of hoax texts etc but my missus can trust if a text is from me.
Using the VHF at the edge of coverage can turn into a saga when only half a garbled message gets thru and there isnt anyone able or willing to relay.
How good is VHF cover across Shark Bay?
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
carnarvonite
Posts: 8672
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Coverage
There is quite good coverage by VHF of Shark Bay, we monitor channels 16, 73 and 81 [repeater on Cape Cuvier that covers as far north as Gnaraloo Bay and down as far as Gladstone and outside of the islands as well. In an emergency or during Carnarfin fishing comp we use our Blowholes shack to monitor 16, 73 and 81.
Denham monitor 16, 73 and the repeater on Steep Point,82 I think? plus there is the ranger station on Steep Point and shop at Gnaraloo that have sets and will turn them on if notified, the repeater at Coral Bay can reach down to Cape Cuvier, not sure on the northern coverage but would expect to reach somewhere near Norwegian Bay.
There is a repeater on North Island at the Abrolhos Islands, not sure again of its frequency
Rob H
Posts: 5806
Date Joined: 18/01/12
funny you say that about
funny you say that about repeaters, I got this email from our VMR a few weeks back
"G’day All,
We have just received confirmation that DFES have installed a VHF repeater in their site on the Moresby Range. It’s been there since January, did anyone else know???
It operates on Marine VHF Ch. 82 and has much better range than anything we have had up to now.
Geraldton VMR will henceforth maintain a listening watch on Ch. 82 in addition to Ch. 16, 72 & 81 (Rat Island Repeater); HF SSB 4125 MHz and HF AM 27 MHz Ch. 88 &91.
Please Note: CH 82 should only be used for Ship to Shore communications or when unable to contact GMVRG via Ch. 16 i.e. out of range.
Crazy-when I first started doing small boat Abrolhos trips 4 or 5 years back, I simply couldnt find anywhere the location and confirmed frequency of the Rat Island repeater.
Eventually I think it was you John who was able to provide a list of the repeaters on the coast here-like its a state secret or something?
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Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
carnarvonite
Posts: 8672
Date Joined: 24/07/07
List
Will give the list again when I head down the base, this years diary doesn't have them in it, only what channels are monitored but they are not up to date.
We have spoken to Fremantle se rescue via channel 81 repeater on Cuvier and the one on Rotto.
One member heads down to Gladstone regularly and contacts us via 81 because we can't be reached on 16 yet the repeater is some 50nm north of us making a distance of approx. 130-140nm.
dowders
Posts: 112
Date Joined: 23/01/11
I asked if they had a
I asked if they had a repeater last time I went across to the Abrolhos and they told me 82 and if I could check in with them when I was across as they wanted to know how effective it was. I got across there and was calling them on it and there was no response, so i called them on the mobile and said I was trying to reach them and they said hangon while they went and changed channels as they weren't listening on it, I thought great what's the point of having it, but it was patchy. This was on the eastern side of the island, but later that day I could here them clear as on 16 and this was on the western side of the island???
carnarvonite
Posts: 8672
Date Joined: 24/07/07
3 radios
We use 3 VHF sets here in Carnarvon, one on 16, 73 and the third on 73 to save missing a call while on another channel.
Plus the 27 meg set, HF on 4125 and a UHF on scan if we need it
sea-kem
Posts: 15010
Date Joined: 30/11/09
PM sent John
PM sent John
Love the West!
carnarvonite
Posts: 8672
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Returned
They have recently returned safe and sound but I bet they are in need of some sleep because with last nights conditions they wouldn't have got much
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
rockinham sea seach and rescue
has been frustrating logging on with Rockingham ssar lately, but to their credit it is because they have been upgrading their coms , freo ssar and mandurha have always called me and said they will phone my info through to rocky ssar these are the type of vollys should have fully paid members , and the state government doesn't need to spend another 7 million dollars on trying to find out why kids wag school , I can tell them its because they don't like school , that money could go to the vollys
iana
Posts: 652
Date Joined: 21/09/09
When I did my VHF ticket
When I did my VHF ticket, I was hopping to get some real time examples and practice at using the radio. The nearest I got to a VHF radio at the coarse was when the instructor pointed out one mounted in the wall.
What about putting up a list of examples for us to get an idea of what and how to say.
It is easy to say we're of to Rotto, a fixed place distance and time, but what about stooging about in Co-burn, going to your fishing spot, you're hardly likely to quote the co-ordinates.
If skippers don't log in it may just be a case of how one can go about it.
carnarvonite
Posts: 8672
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Location
When you log in and give your intended location give it as an approximate, 5nm due west of Garden Island, the barges, the D9, the gravel patch in Cockburn Sound , same goes if you are heading out from Two Rocks, inside the Lindas, 4nm off Moore River, the Blue Hole off Yanchep.
All it needs to be is somewhere for them to start a search from and then it will expand out from there.
It is called "Last Known Position and they send that through to Water Police who enter in in their program that gives you a search area to cover that expands as time progresses. the program takes in to account windage on certain type boats, size, tidal movements even to a person in the water. The co ordinates are given to the rescue boats and they are tracked in real time via "Tracplus" so changes can be made if conditions change.
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
iana
got to say when I log in if I am not going to a specific location EG parker point I will give the gps coordinates of my intended destination , pingers would be lucky to right them down in time , and who cares I get bugger all fish any way hahaha
Faulkner Family
Posts: 18050
Date Joined: 11/03/08
imo . logging on should be
imo . logging on should be compulsery for all boaties.
always logged on when we hit the water and off when we left it.
only prob we ever had was shark bay where we were told you dont need to log on , they only monitor the radio. think i pissed them off when i insisted in logging on and off . that was a few years back tho, may have changed now.
RUSS and SANDY. A family that fishes together stays together
Rob H
Posts: 5806
Date Joined: 18/01/12
just my thoughts but
do we really need more pedantic rules and regulations??-what may work fine in metro where everything is provided on a plate 24/7 doesnt necessarily work out in regional areas where there is only coverage on weekends and daytime, sporadic VHF cover etc.
At some point every skipper needs to take some responsibility for his own actions, it is the most basic premise of skippering a boat.
Along with that may come the situation that a rescue isnt possible due to location, werather, availability etc
Similar with passengers-if you dont have the confidence in your skipper to deal with an adverse situation, then your skipper has a fool for a passenger
Personally, I often prefer when doing a longer trip to provide my missus with the nitty gritty and just log on with my destination (Sthn Group etc).
Then text her day to day with what we are up to-if we are late back then the second call from VMR should be to her phone anyhow
What would be good is to have an online resource to lodge a passage plan (like a flight plan) using a pin number provided by your VMR membership, which is then enacted by a log on call as you leave.
This would-
-eliminate a 10 minute VHF call with the old boy on the other end scribbling it down the bits he may think are important while 50 more people are trying to log on also.
-allow more comprehensive trip description if warranted
-eliminate people having to give GPS coords with the confusion of the different formats
-save people having to advertise their fishing/diving spots on the radio if they are concerned
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
iana
Posts: 652
Date Joined: 21/09/09
There is already an online facility
There is already an online facility for logging your travel details,http://beacons.amsa.gov.au/register_now.html. You can set up your own database and record details of your trip, change your epirb details i.e. boat to boat, or boat to vehicle.
I would imagine if you are reported missing then AMSA will refer to your details in the database first.
So all you have to do is set up your database, and each time you plan a trip enter your details into your database.
Not sure if that is the correct web address to get you to the log in page.
Rob H
Posts: 5806
Date Joined: 18/01/12
I dont think you can lodge
I dont think you can lodge trip details, only register your beacons etc.
If there is such a facility, its useless without anyone knowing about it and should be promoted but I imagine as with the VHF repeaters its a state secret.
Sadly dealing with AMSA on a week to week basis at work, while they do a great job on the SAR stuff-I wouldnt trust my life to them to communicate with other agencies.
They have taken over State Certs of Competencies and have had my Trading tickets for nearly 9 months now for revalidation.
Every 90 days I have to request from them ANOTHER letter to present to auditors as they cant get their "system" to talk to WA's.
There are many Id guess in this situation.
Previously AMSA had told us that under the new Maritime Labour Convention, it was a criminal and jailable offence for us to hold any position on a trading vessel without the ORGINAL CoC document in our possession.
But its ok if its AMSA's fault.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
iana
Posts: 652
Date Joined: 21/09/09
Took a bit of finding but its there.
Account-
- Beacons - select beacon - Beacon editor.
Quote" Trip details, Please enter any extra information or details about trips you are making etc. etc."
Also you can up load any trip detail or additional usage documentation.
Rob H
Posts: 5806
Date Joined: 18/01/12
I dont doubt you-but I still
I dont doubt you-but I still cant find it!
And I think we'd both agree that if its not user friendly and promoted then its worse than useless-if someone puts their details there and no one else finds it...
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Brucesta
Posts: 1721
Date Joined: 29/05/09
they should allow AIS for
they should allow AIS for recreational vessels, using your boat rego for the callsign. you can get a GME transmitter for $550 and you can get the reciever for even less that can interface into your plotter via NMEA2000. At least you'll have a log of the last known position if they do move around...
Las Vegas - Rolling the dice and trying your luck. 1M+ Barra summer target. 100kg Black Marlin winter target
Rob H
Posts: 5806
Date Joined: 18/01/12
I wasnt aware that rec
I wasnt aware that rec vessels werent allowed AIS?
but no rec who gets stressed about a boat coming within 5 miles for fear of pinging is gonna advertise his position via AIS anyhow i reckon!
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Brucesta
Posts: 1721
Date Joined: 29/05/09
Probably the only issue with
Probably the only issue with it Rob I guess is the ping factor but would of great help in a sticky situation. Probably isn't hard to get your boat registered but well I can't say I have ever seen one with it
Las Vegas - Rolling the dice and trying your luck. 1M+ Barra summer target. 100kg Black Marlin winter target
Rob H
Posts: 5806
Date Joined: 18/01/12
AIS
Our vessels under 500 tonnes have only got them in the last 6 or 7 years, and even Rankin/Goodwin didnt have them 5 years or so back when we were doing close standby out there.
AIS receivers are available quite cost effective for yatchs but transmitters not so common.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
GeroVMR
Posts: 4
Date Joined: 29/05/14
VHF Marine Repeaters etc
Just picked up on your discussion - For your info the ACMA website has a search facility for all sites around Oz. You can find it at http://web.acma.gov.au/pls/radcom/register_search.main_page?pSEARCH_TYPE=Sites . This has a KML link to Google Earth which will give you its precise location & height ASL.
Example below:
Site Details
Site ID 31052
Name State Service site Moresby Range GERALDTON
Location GERALDTON
WA 6532
AMG Zone 50
AMG Easting 272960
AMG Northing 6824770
Precision Within 100 metres
Latitude (AGD66) -28 41 03
Longitude (AGD66) +114 40 35 [ KML ]
Also at http://vhfradiocourse.com/log-on-log-off-trip-planner/ there an excellent Trip Planner that you fill in on line and email it to your VMR or friends - it even has the facility to upload a Photo of your boat.
Hope this helps
Rob H
Posts: 5806
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Thats good, havent seen that
Thats good, havent seen that before. If for example that form was submitted midweek to Geraldton VMR midweek, how often are the emails monitored?
If not regularly then i could see some confusion when logging off by radio a couple days later and the email hasnt yet been viewed?
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
GeroVMR
Posts: 4
Date Joined: 29/05/14
Email Log on - Log Off
I personally check our VMR emails daily. Log on info is passed on to our Home Based Monitors.
Note that initially your Trip Plan is emailed to you personally, you can then forward it to a responsible friend, print it out & stick it on the fridge or email it to your local VMR. In the case of an emergency if your wife/partner/friend raises the alarm your info will be in the VMR mailbox even if it has been missed.
If you want to try it out, send me a test one to , mark it "Test" in the Subject box and request a Read Receipt to ensure it has been received.