Big ban area . Not all pinks come in sound massive schools still breed on back edge of 5 fathom. I thought stocks where brilliant. Last 2 years huge amounts of stock. Most of these results come from willing fisherman handing there frames in ( bite you in ass) next release will be dhues :)

Don’t get me wrong . Maybe put boat limit on them. This will have massive impact on already struggling tackle stores . Dhues breed different time from snapper. Also mullys. Are we going to have more bans on the way? Is this just the start.

Im not into it at all, the snapper are protected in the sound and weve seen the benefits. I guess the mewstones/carnac/ north end of gi could have the border increased as that is the entrance the snapper use. I dont agree with recfishwest on this one.  How about halving the bag limit for charters (one fish per person). Recfishwest are just justifying their existence imo or they are doing this to use as leverage on another issue. I dont get the point in trying to extend the boundaries south of GI?

What about a 1 fish over xx.0kg per boat sort of rule  

What about a 1 fish over xx.0kg per boat sort of rule  

I agree wholeheartedly with RecFish.

If it has been identified that breeders are reducing in numbers then it's time to reassess our approach to utilising a natural resource.

Bag/boat limits can be reduced.

Ban zones extended.

Snapper season shortened.

And perhaps consider a maximum size limit (in tandem with the existing undersize regs).

I can hear the cries from certain people such as tackle stores etc but without sounding callous, this is more important. Afterall if there are no fish then there is no fishing.

Hopefully the science is rock solid here. Indications based upon science should prevail over pecuniary and/or self interest.

Just saying and notputting anyone down.

Tight lines

 Leave as is, maybe stop peeps going twice a day!

Only way fisheries will be able to police people going out twice would be to sit on every ramp and log boats and licenses to fish caught. Maybe look at a possession limit per license the same as we do with Barramundi. Fisheries have heaps of power to check freezers when someone complains.

 Make the last month catch and release only? We can still have our fun, stocks dont get hammered, charters and tackle stores still make money, fisheries will no doubt still make revenue from fines of cheeky people still keeping fish? Alot of people target them coz they are an easy feed, and not for the sport.

And longer bans opens up the gates . Reduction in limits for herring and tailor worked. The current ban and area for pinks is working . Numbers last few years has been incredible. Put boat limit on them. 1 per person max 3 per boat . This way people with younger kids and smaller boats can catch a trophy fish without travelling to far. Mandurah crab size stock poor. Whiting poor ,mullet average lets ban that for school holidays to protect breeding stock. While where at it increase fish licence fees to help support bans and programs. Pinks haven’t left sound all year , that tells me stock pretty good . Protect by all means , must be better way. White pointers like sound ,never use to see them (rare). Now big numbers smashing pinks every year. Get rid of them ,this will help save pinks even more. Let’s see what happens with dermersal ban this year .if where lucky we may be able to fish for 2 months in a year soon. I thought fisheries done a great job on pinks, obviously science says different.

 Start the ban 15 days earlier and keep the same zoneing. Problem solved

We can all meet down ramp. Have a lettuce /tomatoe sandwich and wash it down with a soda water and watch the sunset .

Some very good ideas glass off. 

Include September but retain the current exclusion areas.

The September period and extended area hurts....but 100% for it, as mention still plenty of places out side for them to be caught.

few charters boats picking of 20 plus fish a day for the last few months wouldn't help regardless of spawning or not.

personally i am in favour.

just looking at the carpark of boats parked on schools makes you wonder how long the breeders can last. amazing fish, my thoughts are along the lines of more protection = better stocks= better catches= better for all. bit simple, but then again, so am i....;)

i know a lot of tackle stores are doing it tough, but agree with the point above, will be tougher if no fish to be caught.

i also agree with the max size limit, stricter bag limits etc. how many 70 cm snapper do you need to catch a day to ensure a few good feeds? the boats heading out twice a day is another issue...pure greed as far as im concerned.

havent caught many snapper, but the ones i have have made my week at the time, and definitiely stick in my mind. would be a shame if my kids couldnt experience this in the future.

i have lived overseas with less effective management and the seas have been barren, something like a herring would be a prize. we are extremely lukcy in wa to have such an amazing fishery right near a major city, so we should protect it. i dont see harm on erring on the side of caution, all it could mean is more fish for the future.

The way I look at it is like farming ,if you plant a fruit tree it grows and produces fruit year in and year out. they build a declination plant why cant they build a fish hatchery next too it and use the saltwater in that before it goes to decal plant. Population is growing but fish stocks are reducing ,cant make the fish in nature to produce more then we need too help it along (MORE FISH HATCHERYS). Stop putting in artificial reefs in high tourist areas and looking for the Tourist dollar and a bit more thought into the locals, that I would think put more $$$ into the state in fees etc. Not sure about other Sandgropers, but i get rely pissed off that i have to pay inflated tourist prices to stay at a place in my own back yard. Slept in a two person tent on the beach 10 feet from the water back in the 70's at Monkey Mia,nothing but a shop,jetty and dolphins,it was great.Now cant afford to go back now. Back to the snapper,if they are in the sound to breed "leave the fu#@%%ers alone to do that !! Rant over, All opp ion's are mine and mine alone. Live with it.

A good point to note too for anyone reading that's not active in fishing or more of a one eyed  conservationist is that  just because lots of boats are sitting over a spot or on the water doesn't mean that they are all bagging out. Most times not much is being caught, dont get me wrong occasionally a lot off fish are caught with a lot of boats sitting on a school  but quite rare. 

I read a report that total catch out of Perth by recs sits at 13% of total western australia catch, both rec and pro so quite a small number by recs.

I have been fishing for snapper around the sound for about eight years and in the last two years the amount of fish I have seen has been outstanding, I mean the amount of times I have seen them on the way to check cray pots has been really suprising. I know thats not the most scientific report but thats just my observations.

People tend to talk about the problems that Shark Bay and Carnarvon have had but I'm pretty sure both of those fisheries had commercial fishing pressure where the metro area as far as I know (please correct me) no longer has commercial snapper fishing licences. Scotte in the previous post mentioned that rec fishermen take 13% of the total West Australian catch. I know thats heresay and I should do my own research but that seems pretty small. Not to be scandalous but are we sure that the government doesn't want to lock out rec fishers to ensure snapper stocks so they could re-issue commercial licence and make some cash considering what they tried to do with the crayfish. It seems that the overall idea is to lock out rec fishers but make as much money from them first.

It seems that alot of people that don't actually fish the sound or don't catch in the sound see all the boats and some posts and assume everyone is killing it. I've caught a few pink snapper mainly in the last two years and my advice to people wanting to catch one is not to fish in the large groups of boats. All that activity usually shuts the fish down especially if they haven't started the actual spawning. I think we can all admit that catching snapper can be very challenging at the best of times and fifty boats sitting on their heads doesn't make them bite any more than usual.

I'm all for conservation but the government doesn't do any of this stuff unless they can make money from it in the future sorry to sound cynical but it just seems to be the way.

My 2cents

 hopeless ! why dont we all sellour boats and hunt witchety grubs or is there a ban on them too

There are 2 pros that fish sound. Pretty stricked rules compared to up north. I’ve been on a boat up nrth on pink run. Not hard to hand line in 1 to 3 ton of fish in short time. Pros in sound not an issue. I think the biggest killer of pinks was back when cray men could catch them ( not now) pinks are dumb as bat shit. sound of big boat burleying a spot certain time easy. What charters also do. Just make rules easy to understand.

cant speak for carnarvon , but back in the 90s we went to nanga /shark bay just about every winter for many years ....it was gobsmacking even back then to hear blokes talking up their boats snapper catch around the bullpit at night as being in the 100 + mark easy , several family groups had snapper numbers per boat kept in the 240 + over a two week stay there

the bag limit back then was 10 i think ,, and it was very normal to head down to the fish cleaning sinks at night to see boat crews with 40-60 snapper per boat filleting away like a production line with everyone involved

anyone could see it needed to change ., and as usual nothing did until it collapsed ..

i dont fish in the area being considered , and anecdotally snapper down south here are in the best numbers iv ever seen in geo bay etc ....

but that does not mean the near future may not change if the cohort being caught now is only big over a few seperate years

id like to see the science on this from fisheries in detail as im sure many others would too

Was 10 ,then 6,then 4 ,then 1 over 700 and one under 700. Now 2 just min size. Boat limit never tried why not ? stocks seem good . Apart from massive fish kill few years back.

Like I said I'm all for conservation like reducing the bag/boat limit and having a maximum size limit. Making the lock out period longer and the area larger is reducing the amount of fishable days for people with smaller boats. If the lock out period is 5 months and you throw in 3 months of shit weather in winter that leaves 4 months a year to fish for pinks in the sound making it more exclusive for people with larger boats and more expensive in general.

If you change the bag limit from 2 to 1 wouldn't that effectively halve the rec catch, isn't that enough? If they're worried about a particular breeding size then change the catch size to reflect that.Why are the pinks rocking up earlier in the year? Could it be there are more fish? Maybe they always rocked up at this time and the numbers just weren't as big. I call BS and there are other options to protect stock levels than what they have proposed. 

Another 2cents

 Bring the ban forward a month  

At least give the fish time to off load their eggs rather then in an esky.

Its taken 18 years to see a good increase to stock numbers with the current rules and regs.

Take a good look whats going on in SA and the current issues with stock recruitment very nasty out look.

It a very easy fishery to be deminished but we need to allow a breed cycle to be completed before we go and chase a feed and pic for the future of a snapper fishery.

No farmer would shoot his ewews before they lamb..

Just because you dont see the act doest justify the take.

A bigger off limit zone to allow pinkies to transit between the islands would benifit both fishers an fish in the future.

I respect people that know more than me on this subject and I believe that ROCKPOM may be one of those but you said yourself its taken 18 years to see a good increase to stock numbers with the current rules and regs. So you are saying that the numbers have increased so why is their need for change?

SA has a minimum length of 38cm of which you can catch 5 fish between 38cm-60cm and 2 over 60cm, their closed season is only one month long(similar to demersal ban) with other particular areas having closures of 3 months in length. So we have the most strict pink snapper fishing legislation in the country which has lead to an increase in the stocks but we need more lock out time and larger lockout zones. Why?

This is a wild resource not agriculural farming of which the current management system has seen an "increase to stock numbers". "Allowing pinks to transit between the islands"

you make it sound like their is a permantent barracade of fishing boats and only a very small amount of water for them to get through. The majority of boats are probably their after work on week days till not that late and on weekends.

 All we are seeing is the result of good recruitment years and these dont happen all the time.

Just because last years stocks looked good doesnt mean next year will be the same.

It takes on average 7 years for pinks to get to a good size to add to this recruitment level and these young fish are not the major providers of this spawning event.

Good spawn years are not as common as most people think as egg surveys have shown in the past it very hit and miss.

For example the schools last year in Warnbro where tiny compared to 2 years ago. For it to take 18 years to see an increase is a worry not a reward. 

I still think that bring it forward a month and let them do their business and possibly remove a month of the end as majority of spawning has been completed on the water temp rise.

The amount of boats fishing these schools last season before the closure rang alarm bells for the fisheries.

Adding an outer harbour to the mix will only add to this issue.

It is a very easy stock to deplete either by a fish kill, over fishing or damage to an ecosystem.

 The proposal for extending the closed season and area is a great and noble idea  but how much difference will it make once the outer harbour it constructed with all the dredging and increased shipping traffic etc ? The cockburn sound needs just as much protecting as the snapper that breed there.

This morning who knows fair bit on subject. It makes sence to extend ban time by bringing it forward . It seems frames of fish that are getting handed in ( research) are only around 11 year old fish. Not as many bigger breeders around (1 meter jobs.) now it’s been explained in simple terms to me I would have to agree with extension. My biggest concern is how big ban area is . Existing ban area I beleive is okay. It’s not so much about quantity’s of fish it’s size. If in 10 years time my grandkids can catch big pinks like my kids did when they where growing up it will be worthwhile.i beileive talks will be happening soon if iam off I will attend to get more understanding.

 I dont think any of this really matters unless the BAN on the outter harbour is put into place. 

No point further trying to protect an edemic stock of Pinks if in the next 12-24 months they are just going to destroy the Cockburn Sound  and most of the vital breeding grounds for them and a whole range of other species. 

Through sound. If causeway was all poles the whole length would help flush. No where near as many nice weed beds . There all slowly dieing .poo pipes either end of sound . Salt poring in from desalination plant. Time will tell

I read the fisheries research found below;

www.fish.wa.gov.au/Documents/fisheries_research_updates/fisheries_research_update_cockburn_and_warnbro_sounds_pink_snapper.pdf

There are some graphs that represent the "Preliminary age distribution for legal pink snapper collected from recreational fishers in the metro and SW area 2015-2017".

These graphs seem to show that the number of larger fish to be on the decline in 2017, in the top right hand corner there is an "n" value which I'm not sure but I assume represents the amount of frames handed in by rec fishers in that year. If the amount of frames has fallen from 616 in 2015 to 243 in 2017 are those graphs a fair comparison of the age/size distribution of pinks in the metro/SW area?

Maybe I've missed the point if the idea is to grow the stocks so strong that when they do build the outer harbour and fuck all the sea grass beds/habitat for the breeding pinks they might still have a chance to survive then so be it. I've really enjoyed fishing for pinks and I want my sons to do that as well.

 Make the first month catch and release only.

Yes RTomkins,

This is concerning.

However such reports give the Tin Foil Hat Brigade (TFHB) ammo as well.

Less large frames handed in can also be simply a seasonal factor (although this is simplistic).

Anomolies can also easily be overlooked due to the fact that they of course are not being handed in any small or undersied frames (for obvious reasons). Ratiomatically this may distort findings to suit those who are TFHB. 

If we suggest (as RecFish just have) that the smaller sizes have increased in numbers then this is an easy sell for the outer harbour proposal as "the stocks are better than they have been in xxxxxx years)

In my 30 years experience in marine proteins I have already seen one fish species become commercially extinct. Orange Roughy originally were thought (scientific studies at the time) to have a 3 year breeding cycle, move on a couple a couple of years is 15-20, a couple more we see 30 and then......80!!!!!!! Guess what Kaput.

In Norway (who has some of the best practises and regulations in the cosmos regarding protecting marine stocks) they only have two (2) Arctic Shrimp processing plants remaining. Mutated Salmon from aquaculture is now in wild streams. Recently they declared their marine stocks regulated as a natural resource (just as oil/gas) so now you pay the royalties up front (this pleases me and it is an approach I think we should adopt).

So the key, no matter what pro/anti development stance, regardless of personal fishing logic, belief of rights, complaints of fees etal it is utmost that we afford the time and environment for breeders to grow to be breeders.

I do think we need to pull back on some of these charter boats as well......that is some pretty heavy ripping right there.

Indirect contributions to the value of fish stocks revolves around aquaculture. This is where it takes 1.5kgs of marine protein to create 1kg of your old Tassie Salmon for example. Then they do not fill us in on the rort of the feeds. Much of this "fish food/feed" comes from battery chooks and are loaded with fats (nope not Omega 3) and unhydrolised feathers (undigestable). Trust me on this.....I don't touch the stuff! Worse is the antibiotic content and the refusal to qualify the results of such in the feed vs the regulations which are lax.

So to protect Snapper we need a BIG approach.

Tight lines

 not that i fish for the pinks in the sound but after seeing so many big pinks caught 1 month prior to the ban , i feel that the closed season should be 1 month earlier. leave the zone the same tho. still plenty of fish out there to be caught/ maybe there should be a limit of 2 but only 1 fish over 700 to give the big breeders a better chance. 

and not surprisingly a number of viewpoints.  Taking fish from spawning aggregations just doesn't make sense to me.  If the concern is that the numbers of the bigger breeders are down then along with the other recommendations why not introduce a maximum length limit where all pinks over a certain size are returned.

Can the sex of a snapper be determined from its external features without cutting it open?  Return all females over a certain size?

I sure hope they dont base research on the size and number of frames handed in by rec fishos. How can that be used as an accurate way to measure?

To me it seems like fisheries and concerned people have seen alot of pink snapper caught on social media and the amount of boats at the northern end of GI and have thought this cant be right and are having a knee jerk reaction. The pamphlet link above seems like a load of rubbish neatly presented to support their argument. (proud member of the TFHB).  Extending the ban area outside of the islands at the north end of GI is important but I dont see boats lining the horizon around warnbro/point peron around that time of year like they do north of GI. Correct me if im wrong.

I agree with the ban in place now and targeting spawning fish in known spawning areas during known spawning times is not the best practice but outside of that we should be allowed to fish for them. There are many outside influences that would affect snapper numbers and breeding that we wouldnt even be aware of and probably never will. Ive caught a few munted snapper with genetic defects and ive caught milking fish way outside of the spawning season. I dont think the science can be 100% accurate although Im sure the scientists care and do their best with the tools they have. Obviously im no expert but this is a knee jerk reaction to a visual interpretation of what fishers are doing and loosely based on limited research.

True fisherman care about fish and protecting them but this is going a bit to far.

What are fisheries/recfishwest doing to protect the sound from over development so snapper have a natural breeding ground. Are they being proactive in other areas to protect our snapper or are they just aiming their strategies at the fishos? 

 Wow that was quick.

Ban starts on Sept 1st to Jan 31st. 

press release, and maps etc below

http://www.fish.wa.gov.au/Fishing-and-Aquaculture/Recreational-Fishing/Pink-snapper-closed-season-extension/Pages/default.aspx

http://www.fish.wa.gov.au/Fishing-and-Aquaculture/Recreational-Fishing/Pink-snapper-closed-season-extension/West-Coast-pink-snapper-in-depth/Pages/default.aspx

http://www.fish.wa.gov.au/PublishingImages/Maps%20and%20graphs/Snapper%20graphs%203.pdf

 Onya Hezzy,

Based on that I think it is terrific.

It is somewhat puling they have not changed sizes nor limits. They specifically mention charter boats but do not drop the limits, only the region and extended closure. 

All in all a good start.

Tight Lines

 Onya Hezzy,

Based on that I think it is terrific.

It is somewhat puling they have not changed sizes nor limits. They specifically mention charter boats but do not drop the limits, only the region and extended closure. 

All in all a good start.

Tight Lines

 good topic and some good viewpoints,

Just to be the devils avocardo here

one comment on charters.  for most fishers on these charters they are a once or twice a year occurance so to get out and catch a pinky once or twice a year is fantastic.  compare this to the regular boaters who launch couple of times per week and catch couple each time which could add up to 100 or so taken each year. 

Personally like to see not extra time of ban ...maybe just a boat limit or even Max size limit as most pinkies release very well.

 I have to disagree - There are plenty of regulars on the well known charters - particularly the one who targets mostly Pinks. 

I would also hazard a guess that the average rec fish boat is probably not pulling in 100 good size snapper a 'season'. Sure their are some, but I wouldn't think many. Typical case of 95% of the fish being caught by 5% of anglers.

I find it amusing the amount of forum posters that start their post with "I personally don't fish in the sound for snapper" like its some kind of sin. I do fish in the sound for pre-spawn snapper and the reason I do this is because pink snapper from all accounts seem to be the most sustainable well managed demersal fish available to target. I fish for crays in the summer, squid in the winter etc to supply my family (4 people) with a small amount of "wild caught seafood". How many of the forum posters can tell if a dhufish is in "pre-spawn" condition and even if it was would they let it go. The reason you don't know is because their is not enough research around because know one really cares. This doesn't mean you won't be locked out of fishing for that species in the near future.

Recfishwest stated that there was some fishers and social media reports that were concerning, people have mentioned charter fishermen as an issue. I've been on a local charter and we didn't fish in any of the new or old  lock out zones. I believe this is a fisheries/government legislation that supports an already existing alternate agenda that being the outer harbour. Could you imagine a hundred boats fishing for snapper at the D9 if the outer harbour was actually there and in use, what a pain in the arse for container ships and other harbour business. I'm all for conservation but don't be dumb enough to think this is about looking after pink snapper. It seems to me there are less fishing opportunities and more fees making the sport more exclusive to those of you who can afford it, fishing used to be a classless opportunity for people to gather food for themselves.

The system supports fishermen not catchermen that is you can own a boat, pay your fees, pay for tackle/bait, pay for a fishing licence but you can't catch and take fish. BS

I agree 100% Rtomkyns. There is alternative agendas going on and we dont all have money to throw at our fishingand we should have our boat fees reduced, like the RFBL/boat regos dropping down to reflect the increased downtime we now have. Recfishwest should be arguing that right now for us (not a paid member, havent seen anything from them that has made me want to join yet). Knee jerk reaction imo and pretty much have close to nil respect for fisheries now. Wheres the research on warnbro sound?

Id better load up mine, my wifes and kids freezers now.

 I do agree social media is a bane on fishing, ive seen an increase in people fishing the local boat ramp due to youtube videos being put up. Jmo

Ive just seen the release from fisheries and apparently its us recfishos that have requested this? They must mean all the Wreckfishwest members that have paid to have their voice heard. Another permanent ban in place. Spawning squid are next.

 Hit nail on the head.

few thoughts to ponder on this imo

does the enhanced ban period and extended map area for the breeding pink snapper , strengthen the case against a green light for the proposed new harbour or weaken it ??

i would have thought it may be negative for it

having a longer time and larger area included , does not neccessarily mean thats it game over for ever ..rock lobster had the bag limit reduced and larger sizes introduced back in 2009/10....... this helped stock rebuild , then as a commitee we where able to successfully negotiate the increase back over the last 9 years in bag limits , increase in boat limits, increase in pots carried and pulled from a boat , removal or setose rules , and a 12 month season off the back of that initial reduction

The snapper has worked so well I would like to see other spawning aggregations identified and protected as well. I know a pro who fished out of karratha and found the site for rankin cod and decimated it and the local populations over a number of years. 

This also might be part of the bigger picture in that rec fishers were to be reducing their share of the demersal catch ? Perhaps something on fisheries mind when implementing the ban a way of doing it with the support of RFW? 

Do the mulie seine net boats still get big catches of pinks and mulloway there? 

 I don't agree on increaing the length of the ban, fair enough starting it earlier but finish it earlier. Five months closure is virtually half a year, and by the end of that time the fish will thinking about round two of spawning. What's next? A complete closure? As to people thinking everyone is catching when parked over d9 or similar areas what a joke. The majority don't. Hopefully with more bans coming in we'll get a reduction on our fees and licenses. We already have the strictest rules on our size limits and quantities of all our fish/demersals and see no reason to change them. 

I agree with it, given it’s required to protect the stocks. However as someone who fishes the sound/back of garden island/ inshore Fremantle  area for snapper etc with a smaller boat , this means for  approximately 8 months of the year ( the ban period plus winter when generally I wouldn’t fish five fathom due to larger swells/poorer weather) I won’t be able to fish as normal 

Seriously considering just selling the boat, as not worth the expense for just a 4 month fishing period.

I suspect a number of similar fishos in same position. I think this is going to put a lot of pressure on the local fishing tackle shops and unfortunately may mean some anglers heading out wider than normal to fish and putting themselves at risk.

Just my thoughts ....

Cheers

Recfish/fisheries has admitted the snapper are leaving the sound earlier but have left the ban period to finish at the same time. Makes no sense to me.

Just adds more time/costs to trip for the budget minded fishos. Fuel/parking etc.

Just for additional info, ive done a fair bit of backtracking on the net and it seems like most of the fish being caught are larger fish. (Judging by social media pages and fishing reports). If Fisheries were using this data as a sample of the population of pink snapper, it indicates theres more bigger fish than smaller fish.  Goes against what fisheries and Wrecfishwest are saying. The new release by fisheries also backs up my opinion that they are mainly using a visual interpretation of what they think is being caught. Sure its not the best look but how do they know how many fish where actually caught.  Total garbage and extremely unprofessional. 

Fisheries WA

Spawning and pre-spawning migrating pink snapper coming into Cockburn and Warnbro Sounds have been coming under increasing fishing pressure in the lead up to and during the fishing closure - as shown in this picture taken ahead of last year’s closure.

By the looks of weather coming in none. :)