Should i be in 4th or 5th gear when towing a boat ?
Submitted by Paul N on Sun, 2014-07-27 10:34
Just changed car to a 76 series v8 turbo diesel landcruiser having had a petrol GU Patrol in the past . Have towed the 3ton boat to Exy 10 times with the patrol and due to lack of grunt I always stayed in 4th gear . The new car has lots more power being turbo diesel and could probably tow in 5th without any effort .
The question is - should I tow in 5th gear . A lot of the 4x4 forums say its not a good idea to tow in 5th as it will destroy the gearbox . Mainly designed as an overdrive and should remain in 4th when towing. Not sure why myself.
For those with manual gearboxes , what do you use ?
carnarvonite
Posts: 8672
Date Joined: 24/07/07
5th gear
If you want to stuff the gearbox use fifth gear as the other forums stated correctly.
Usually the fifth /overdrive gear sits at the back of the box on the end of the shaft and loading this up causes the bearings to cop extra load and in time you will find the box will start jumping out of gear and a constant whine coming from it
Niko
Posts: 213
Date Joined: 26/11/13
in a standard layout gearbox
in a standard layout gearbox thats true they have a sandwich plate and the 5th gear sits on the other side to the rest of the gearset, but lc70 series box layouts is different bringing 5th gear inside the box as part of the gearset for added strength and durabiltiy. but it is true that it will put extra load on bearings, just very rarely causes an issue.
big john
Posts: 8756
Date Joined: 20/07/06
100 series
I've got a standard 4.2 diesel 100 series and I only tow in fourth. Would love a V8 diesel one day!
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Niko
Posts: 213
Date Joined: 26/11/13
toyota tech
hey mate, i work at toyota as a mechanic and have yet to rebuild 1 of those boxes and can honestly say never seen one fail completely. towing in 5th is fine weve never had a report of issues doing so, tho when driving hilly areas etc ull have to go back anyways for the extra torque but for flat ground id say its fine. if you check your owners manual it has a section or a small book on towing. that being said 3 ton is alot of weight and add to that a full car, bigger offroad tires/suspension if you plan to fit any of that, you may find you prefer to drive it in 4th anyways. also not owning 1 i cant coment on fuel economy gains/losses but give it a go and see what you prefer really. can honestly say theyre tough and youll have a hard time breaking it if thats your key concern.
Paul N
Posts: 485
Date Joined: 09/11/06
Thanks Niko
Yes my concern is breaking it . The car is stock standard and cant see myself doing any mods to tyres or suspension . Not an off-roader myself just using it as daily drive and towing the boat .
sandbar
Posts: 704
Date Joined: 25/10/09
4th
We use a v8 landcruiser to tow a heavily loaded trailer to steep and so far the 3 times I have been there the driver has been told by the owner 4th gear.
Shark1
Posts: 1086
Date Joined: 21/05/12
The 4th gear towing comes
The 4th gear towing comes from the pre turbo day , hzj motors (v6) in factory turboed 6 and 8 the 5 gear is inside the box - no issues towing in 5th
dano83
Posts: 790
Date Joined: 25/05/12
I got a 79 series and like
I got a 79 series and like nicko says 5th is fine at higher speeds flat rd I've driven it pretty much fully loaded 3 passengers on open roads wouldn't make a habit of it tho
outdoinit
Posts: 1009
Date Joined: 05/10/12
We towed our boat from Jurien to
One Arm Point and back with a 76 wagon and used 5th gear as much as we could..
big heavy boat n fully loaded and it pissed it in easy..
as Niko said we had the same advice.. Go for it..
I've spent half my life fishing.. The other half I have wasted..
Skull
Posts: 630
Date Joined: 03/01/12
Perth to Exmouth
Skull
scotto
Posts: 2470
Date Joined: 21/04/08
Longevity...
I think most of you are missing the point...
Yeah, you can tow a big boat from Perth to exmouth in top gear 3 or 4 times, but every time you do, you are doing damage to the gear/gearbox.
Speaking from experience here, I have seen first hand what towing in top gear does to a landcruiser gearbox. It was about a $2000+ fix from memory, all cos we thought we were saving $20 on fuel.
sea-kem
Posts: 15010
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Are we only talking
Are we only talking Landcruisers here or all 4WD's?
Love the West!
scotto
Posts: 2470
Date Joined: 21/04/08
Generally,
All cars mate.
sea-kem
Posts: 15010
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Good to know Scotto, ha ha
Good to know Scotto, ha ha almost feel like we've been conned. I've used 5th on our Gnaraloo trips, total load around 1-1.2 ton max. I try to keep all the heavy shit in the ute tray and bedding, empty jerry's in the boat. As they (boats on trailers) are not meant for carrying heavy loads from what I've read. Thinking of taking the 4.5t Isuzu next year and having just one launch vehicle. Can loan the F@$%k out of the truck and tow the boat behind unloaded. Mate's boat can be empty too.
Love the West!
grantarctic1
Posts: 2546
Date Joined: 03/03/11
Nissan Patrol
If you use a Patrol you won't have a problem.
Have towed many times over long distance and if the conditions allow you to use 5th gear, then use it . If you are struggling then drop down a gear or two.
All my mates have Cruisers and swear by them, but most have done a gear box or two in a lot less Km's than me in my GQ. 600 000km and still gets me into Steep point no problems with a full trailer.
Niko
Posts: 213
Date Joined: 26/11/13
i can only coment on toyotas,
i can only coment on toyotas, as the original post questioned. towing does put added strain on all parts of the driveline not just the gearbox and if done very regularly can be considered severe driving conditions along with heavy offroad etc. the vehicles owners manual will specify interim servicing in these cases (change the frequency of servicing) to help them cope, if you maintain your vehicle theres no reason an issue would arise. thats not saying the box is infalable and will never break there is always an exception, but speaking from my own proffesional experience in the time the v8 turbo diesel has been out ive opened 1 box due to a bad syncro and likely operation error. i can also say ive seen these vehicles punished, 1 exceeded 5 ton and we could barely lift it to do the service which the next day left towing a 3 ton trailer to broome. in the end you may find it more comfortable to tow in 4th, mabye not, but as long as your cruising on a flat road 5th is fine, if you try and stay in 5th while overtaking or going up steep hills and really load the thing up with a full tray towing 3.5 ton well...
quadfisher
Posts: 1146
Date Joined: 28/09/10
depends
Always tow in 4th they say , ok I tow a 6x4 box trailer with a quad in it , towed by a gq 4.2 diesel
4th gear all the way to kalbarri or bremer and back , no way, but a 3 tonne boat ? maybe
It does seem to depend on the 4wd and engine and gearbox layout.
i dont see any 5 or 6 speed over drive , 4-10 tonne trucks sitting in 4th with a load on
quadfisher
carnarvonite
Posts: 8672
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Difference
Huge difference between car / ute gearboxes and those in trucks and also the diff ratios are a lot lower therefore reducing the load.
lextt
Posts: 26
Date Joined: 08/03/12
lancruiser forum
Hi Paul
have a look at land cruiser forum, there is heaps of info on there about towing and fuel consumption for 70 series land cruiser.
here is the link http://www.lcool.org/forum/.
you might need to sing up. before you ask the question on there, do a search as it has been covered before.
thanks
roberta
Posts: 2773
Date Joined: 08/07/08
We had a 93
Toyota dual cab, manual 2.9 deseil. Always towed in 5th gear, with boat fully loaded with supplies, fuel etc. The manual stated that it was ok to tow in 5th, but recommendedfor braking to tow in 4th, which Bob did in suburbia till we hit the Indian Ocean Drive. Our boat has brakes on the new trailer. Of course going up hills Bob would go thru the gears etc. He also had over taken slow bloody caravans doing 70klms to 80klms and naturally went to 4th then back up to 5th to sit on 100klms. Fuel consumption was 22miles to the gallon, he only converted to gallons hahahah. When he drove the road trains, semis he always said 90klms a hr was the best consumption for fuel.
His daughter now has the ute and boat, still going fine, gear box excellent. Can only comment on our experiencewith towing the boat with the Toyota in 5th when we had it.
We bought the ute in 1998 and only has 245,000klms on it, still going strong even the a/c is working well.
Ginger Tablets Rock
Paul N
Posts: 485
Date Joined: 09/11/06
Thanks to everyone
Thanks to everyone for there input . Looks like its ok for my car to be in 5th as long as its not under too much load
saltatrix
Posts: 1081
Date Joined: 30/03/08
3 tonnes is a lot for the car
3 tonnes is a lot for the car to tow.
I had an 84 Hilux. Did 470000 kms with 300kg trailer on the back plus tools = 600kg by 2.2 lire petrol motor every day for 20+ years
No gearbox problem. Going to Exmouth though I hadnt checked the engine oil. Nothing on the dipstick 3200km2 Exmouth round trip.
Went to KARRATHA with a bloke towing a shark cat on Landcruiser tray back. Stripped the axle.
Take it easy on the take offs. Check your oil.
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Reefmonkey
Posts: 711
Date Joined: 22/09/08
read the manual
what does the manual say? older car but my 75 series covers everything recomended towing gears, speeds and such in the manual. different gearboxes but recomends to avoid towing in overdrive to maintain engine braking efficiency(edit)
Dave J.
WSHN4FSHN
Posts: 224
Date Joined: 19/09/12
I believe the reason why so
I believe the reason why so many recommendations are for towing to be only done in 4th gear is due to the make up of the gears in the gearbox. gears 1-4 have the teeth on a near 45 degree angle which can handle a tremendous amount of load. 5th gear has teeth that are at a 90 degree angle which has a far less load bearing capacity and which in some circumstances (like towing 3.5t) can fail
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Burley it and they will come.
quadfisher
Posts: 1146
Date Joined: 28/09/10
Patrol 5th gear , not straight cut
This off patrol forum, describing a up graded 5th for nissans , notice out side of gear the same , but if you look
very closely,you will see the inside were it slides on to main shaft is longer, thats were they can go under extreme loads, still stronger than a toymotor but!!
quadfisher
WSHN4FSHN
Posts: 224
Date Joined: 19/09/12
Yeah true I did mean to add
Yeah true I did mean to add that I had only had experience with 75 series boxes and the theory may not apply in other cases. The old adage is true you get a patrol if you want a tough gearbox and a cruiser if you want a tough clutch!!
Burley it and they will come.
crasny1
Posts: 7003
Date Joined: 16/10/08
Out of interest
I have a Auto which selects the correct gear and when towing my boat loaded say between Karratha and Broome or Exxy it always appear to select the highest gear.
Should you possibly use the Manual overide in this case.
As you can probably perceive not a gearbox or engine expert even though I raced Rally Cars!!!
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quadfisher
Posts: 1146
Date Joined: 28/09/10
Is it just me , or is it hot in here?
Auto different kettle of fish , your main worry is heat , and all autos, ( except maybe truck ones)
used for heavy towing should have a gauge to mointor heat , and a extra cooler ( if not fitted from factory)
The gearpacks are completly different , with small gear drums containing multiputable clutch packs .
When rebuilding autos most so called hard parts, are used over and over including those drums ( as long as there servicable), with the clutch packs
, seals, gaskets etc all being replaced.
Normal auto temps on the hot line should be 175-200f , and towing will increase it slightly.
anything above 250f for long periods will break down the tranny oil , prematurely wearing out the box.
Now you see why a gauge is so much better than a silly idiot light thats says ,"' whoa trans hot''
quadfisher
quadfisher
Posts: 1146
Date Joined: 28/09/10
Tell your wife this one!
This is how a planetary gear set of an automatic transmission really works! The creature inside of it will move the ring gear by driving it like a squirrel in a cage.
quadfisher