Towing oversized US boats
Hi All,
I am looking at buying an american made boat in the 25ft to 27ft range and the boats I have been looking at all have the standard US beam width of 8'6" (2.59m) which makes them oversized for towing purposes (2.5m is the maximum width taken from here http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/mediaFiles/LBU_VS-IB_107.pdf). I was talking to a mate recently who has a boat with a 3m beam and he was telling me a bit about the oversized towing restrictions here in WA such as not being able to tow at night and this in particular has put me off as I like to get early starts. I looked at going down in length but even most of the 21ft/22ft American boats still have the same beam, and so they should have the same problem but I have seen plenty of these big boats being towed around Perth with no oversized signs and I am sure a few were owned by Fishwrecked members or thier friends so I was wondering if you could give me your experiences with towing American boats in Australia (Like do main raods turn a blind eye to boats that are just over the 2.5m etc.)
Any help you can give me on this would be great and please feel free to PM me if you prefer.
Cheers
Toby
Brucesta
Posts: 1721
Date Joined: 29/05/09
you've got it in one, if it's
you've got it in one, if it's over 2.5m it needs a permit and overwidth signs etc. Do yourself a favour and get a Aussie boat, no issues with towing regs then, if it's aussie and on a trailer theres a 90% it's legal, certianlly there are execptions but boats like the Haines Patriot family are all 2.5m beam, big cats as well, cruisecrafts, whittleys etc.
Las Vegas - Rolling the dice and trying your luck. 1M+ Barra summer target. 100kg Black Marlin winter target
CCC
Posts: 539
Date Joined: 29/03/10
Seen a big Cat at Coral Bay
Seen a big Cat at Coral Bay pulled over by the inspectors and he had the book out. Last place I would have thought I would see them.
If you go over width make sure you stick by the rules.
Your not allowed to tow over width on the freeway........
Theres heaps of people that dont follow the rules. Even some of the local boats ie trailcraft in there larger range are over width
CCC
johnno67
Posts: 408
Date Joined: 12/03/10
Over width
Look I have a 225 key west centre console in transit now that's the boat I wanted thats the boat I bought.
I looked at the key west dealer here in Perth and the saving was huge bringing it in from the us .if can't tow it in the night
Well so it be.
CCC
Posts: 539
Date Joined: 29/03/10
Agree, if you find a boat you
Agree, if you find a boat you like you can make it work.
kane
Posts: 1752
Date Joined: 07/12/08
i think the biggest concern is insurance
if you tow at night or during the day and dont have a permit and have an accident you wont be covered, i dont imagine youd be pulled over for being 9cm over width too often :) having said that im in the same boat so to speak and will be taking chances where required :P
Gooooone Fishin!
johnno67
Posts: 408
Date Joined: 12/03/10
Over width sign
I have a couple of mates with over width boats as well and they are Aussie made you will be covered by insurance as long as you follow the regulations no night towing and have a over width sign displayed
kempy
Posts: 810
Date Joined: 28/05/09
We was running around for
We was running around for years until we got pulled over by the trasnport inspectors. They let us off with a warning. But our boat is about 2.8m. Now we run a permit with oversize sign on the front and back. Theres always hasseles like not being allowed on the freeway and not being able to drive at night but you learn to live with it.
Dinkum Auto Electrical A/C & Mechanical Unit 10/16 Kent way Malaga 0438755754 Also Mobile
Open 7 days except when we are fishn For all your auto electrical needs
bradz
Posts: 693
Date Joined: 29/10/07
Seaswirl
I imported a Seaswirl 2101 from the States a few years ago. Loved it, but because I like to fish at night I couldnt tow it around. That was a bummer.
Now I have a Cruisecraft which while not as substantial, at least I know I can do it safely and most of all legally.
If you are going to get a boat over 2.5m, just cover your ass and get the right permits and dont tow at night. Think of it this way... if you kill someone in an accident towing an oversize boat at night, you may as well kiss the rest of your life goodbye. Your 3rd party insurance wont cover you and you will buggered.
Having said all of that, some of the deals you get from the states are awesome.
I did then the best that I knew how. When I knew better, I did better.
dkonig82
Posts: 2091
Date Joined: 06/07/10
Every single time I fish
Every single time I fish I both drive on the freeway, and tow in darkness (early starts), so not being able to do those two things would be a dealbreaker for me.
I've owned 2 large US boats and never had issues towing them, but wasnt aware of those 2 restrictions (thought I'd just need a permit)
When asked by a non-fisherman 'how many fishing rods do you really need?' the correct answer is either:
n+1 (where n is the number of fishing rods you currently own); or
n-1 (where n is the number of fishing rods which would cause your significant other to dump you.
Rob H
Posts: 5798
Date Joined: 18/01/12
one of the conditions of the
one of the conditions of the permit/oversize is that a copy of the regulations must be carried in the glovebox-$400 fine!
Incidentally-the truckies I believe nickname the Transport Inspectors "Mermaids"- >c+nts with scales<
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
roberta
Posts: 2773
Date Joined: 08/07/08
Rob H
that is correct, as I was in the truck heading to Gero with old fart and he got on the CB, said the "Mermaids," were out and about.
ps.............my new laptop(ASUS i7) has spell check hahah
Ginger Tablets Rock
Toby Roe
Posts: 118
Date Joined: 01/02/10
Thanks for the info guys. I
Thanks for the info guys. I do like the boat and Pens in Perth are not really an option so guess I will do the right thing and get the oversized permit to tow it :(
On a similar topic is there anything that I can do to upgarde the towing capacity of a landcruiser to more than 3500kg (only a problem for the 27 footer).
Cheers
Toby
Rob H
Posts: 5798
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Toby
unfortunately no.
I tried to go down that path with my Hilux a couple of years ago.
You may be able to upgrade the GVM not the GCM but the DOT engineers tell me it is simply not an option to increase the towing max of any vehicle that has been rated by the manufacturer due to so many variables ie brakes, chassis strength, drive train etc.
UNLESS you have a vehicle that hasnt been rated by the manufacturer (pretty unlikely) in which case I believe they use a figure of 1.5 times the GVM or something like that.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
kempy
Posts: 810
Date Joined: 28/05/09
More then 3.5t what is it
More then 3.5t what is it made from steel.
Dinkum Auto Electrical A/C & Mechanical Unit 10/16 Kent way Malaga 0438755754 Also Mobile
Open 7 days except when we are fishn For all your auto electrical needs
Toby Roe
Posts: 118
Date Joined: 01/02/10
Nah fiberglass. It's not
Nah fiberglass. It's not really that heavy. Most of the boats I have looked at 25ft or so would give 3.5t a nudge when combined with a trailer and that is using the dry boat figures from the manufacturers.
Cheers
woody
Posts: 617
Date Joined: 27/02/08
Mate it would be cheaper and
Mate it would be cheaper and easier to just buy an F250/F350 or even a small Mitsi truck and have the peace of mind.......big boats need big tow vehicles. You would have to upgrade towhitch, brakes, suspension, tyres and get it all fully engineered, insured and inspected. I wouldnt like to tow anything 3.5t very far with my 100series and its rated for it.....
Big Fella
Posts: 43
Date Joined: 10/02/12
Toby
I bought one of dkonig,s boats a Sea Fox 257 WA.
I've applied for the oversize permit $50 for 3 year it's not worth not having it (insurance, fines and the likes). The oversize banners cost more than that $65 each!
I tow it with a Triton crew cab with a heavy duty tow bar you can tell it’s there but the motor copes well just make sure the trailer has electric over hydraulic brakes.
The Sea Fox weighed 2910kg (on the trailer after I filled it up Bank loan-$800 never again) on Tamala Parks weighbridge (6 pack of coldies for the priveledge).
I know we all have a small BCF arsenal of tackle but not enough to take it over the vehicles towing capacity.
You certainly would not want to tow it any distance full of fuel, and so what if you have to tow it in daylight hours if you want an early start it gives you the excuse to leave the night before in the daylight and have a few beers with the lads at the ramp and drop it in the water in the morning when the breakfast red bulls kicks in!
As said in one of the other comments get the boat you want and make allowances for it.
Dan
Posts: 168
Date Joined: 23/02/06
are you sure it's the boat ?
or the trailer has to be under 2.5 ?
CCC
Posts: 539
Date Joined: 29/03/10
Max width before permit is
Max width before permit is 2.5 m. Does not matter what is over 2.5m boat or trailer. Once over 2.5 permit is a must. Applies to truck, caravans , anything .
Putting a roll out awning on some caravans puts them oversize
CCC
marble
Posts: 775
Date Joined: 03/09/09
Doesnt matter, nothing can be
Doesnt matter, nothing can be over 2.5 metres boat or trailer.
Our rig is under 2.5 metres by 50mm or so, weight is more of an issue. It went 2750kg on the weighbridge when I towed it to exy with no fuel or water. Load it up for a weekend away and tow it to the ramp and its very close to 3.5 t.
2750 kg BMT with an alloy trailer, add 500kg for a steel trailer
300 kg fuel
100 kg fresh water in the tank
35kg drinking water
50 kg ice
Swags, rods, dive kit, food, drinks etc.
PMY 25 Centre Console DF300 Suzuki
tournament
Posts: 376
Date Joined: 10/11/09
just had a look at a larson
just had a look at a larson boat only 2 cms over the 2.5 the dealer tells me no one worries about it and he hasnt heard of anyone being done for it andas far as the landcruiser goes when i brought my prado from grand toyota the salesman told me there is a place in perth they deal with and they can upgrade the towing capasity to 3.5t on a landcruiser legally and it was only 8 or 900 dollars
Rob H
Posts: 5798
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Dealer/salesman may
Dealer/salesman may be talking shit unfortunately.
2cm, of course you can get away with it but not cos its "ok". 1mm in theory is enough to be over. I have bent these rules myself but dont be fooled that an insurance company wont use it to get out of a claim, or the coppers ignore it after an accident.
I wouldnt pay $900 to upgrade as a Landcruiser is already 3.5 tonne
It MAY be possible to upgrade a Prado from new via FACTORY to 3.5 tonne but word I got from DOT modifications unit direct was that you CANNOT in WA under any circumstance upgrade tow capacity on a vehicle other than what the manufacturer has spec'ed it at.
However it wouldnt be the first time Ive been given dodgy advice by a government department
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
marble
Posts: 775
Date Joined: 03/09/09
Both salesmen talking shit
Both salesmen talking shit to get a sale and their commision, get it in writing from them then when you get nailed or insurance wont pay out hit them with the bill
PMY 25 Centre Console DF300 Suzuki
hamo
Posts: 93
Date Joined: 07/10/10
This was a big factor while I
This was a big factor while I was looking at the Trophy. It might not be the class leader for its size but does a good job of almost everything and is only 2.46m wide. Pretty handy being able to hitch up and roll out whenever you want.
Trueblue3
Posts: 84
Date Joined: 28/12/11
Big Fella
Big Fella,
PM sent,
I have the same boat, the thought crossed my mind when I bought my Seafox 257 that it was oversize, Definalty need to apply for oversize hey!
A Bad Days Fishing Is Still Better Than A Good Day's Working....
Matt
johnno67
Posts: 408
Date Joined: 12/03/10
Can not increase gvm
Under no circumstances you can not increase the gcm on any vehicle you can increase the gvm only I know because that is my job that's what my business does every day
johnno67
Posts: 408
Date Joined: 12/03/10
Whoops typo mention gcm
Typo mention gcm
FRR
Posts: 11
Date Joined: 20/04/12
Over width Trailer
My understanding is that if the Boat / trailer is under 2.7m you can tow anytime of the day / night. See section 6 - "Curfew" of: http://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/USINGROADS/HEAVYVEHICLES/PUBLICATIONSINFORMATION/Pages/Signage.aspx
Rob H
Posts: 5798
Date Joined: 18/01/12
thats interesting!
I just downloaded the online booklet and your correct it says 2.7.
But the hard copy one issued in exactly the same format says 2.5 meter?
Youd think that after paying the fee etc theyd do the sensible thing and mail/email permit holders and tell them if there is a material change such as this?
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Vinesh87
Posts: 2751
Date Joined: 02/04/11
I Just bought a Trophy 2152
I Just bought a Trophy 2152 from the states which has a beam of 2.43m . The oversize issue is a pain in the ass. I spoke to absolutely everyone about it, Dpi, Transport, Insurance and boat dealers. It is a pain in the ass for starters getting a oversize trailer over the pits its hard enough in its self and then you need the permits and if you don't have the permits and you crash the insurance will turn around and say no. YES there is a chance it will get fudged at DPI like people have done and put done as 2.5m but for my money crashing into something even more expensive than my boat was seriously not worth it. When insurance are trying yo get out of paying out i would think they'll try every clause possible.
All the dealers talk shit to get the sale.. 1mm oversize is oversize.
FFR over 2.5m has curfew, i assume what you are looking at is for heavy vehicles e.g semis.
I just went through the whole process, pm me if you wanna know anything else.
Vin
Rob H
Posts: 5798
Date Joined: 18/01/12
If yours has a beam of 2.43
If yours has a beam of 2.43 what are you worried about? I was also under the impression that you couldnt licence a vehicle that was overwidth (except on a single journey permit), only the "indivisible load" could be overwidth?
But he is absolutely correct. Go online and download the online copy of the glovebox handbook. It has 2.7 in place of 2.5 meter.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
mullows
Posts: 738
Date Joined: 25/12/08
Correct me if I am wrong. I
Correct me if I am wrong. I was under the impression that if the boat was over 2.5m under no circumstances could you legally tow it at night.
Now I have just looked at the link you have posted and as long as your lighting and signage is correct (SEC 3.2 and 3.5) and you have a permit you CAN tow at night as long as the load is less than 2.7 m. Mine is 2.59m wide, so as stated in SEC 6.2 posted by FBR above I should be right to go where and when I like at whatever time I like?????
I hope that is the case.
Cheers
Mullows
The Older I get the better I was :-)
Paully
Posts: 3246
Date Joined: 15/08/09
Interesting
if thats the case, can it be towed on the freeway then under 2.7? - From what I have always been told by owners over 2.5 and DPI staff, even with permit and lighting you can not tow at night or on freeway.
mullows
Posts: 738
Date Joined: 25/12/08
Beat me to it Rod H. Printed
Beat me to it Rod H.
Printed and put with the permit in the car. Giddy up!!!
Cheers
Mullows
The Older I get the better I was :-)
Vinesh87
Posts: 2751
Date Joined: 02/04/11
Rob H i am not worried i
Rob H i am not worried i bought this boat for the under 2.5m reason. And if you Can tow at night under 2.7m with correct singage thats awesome but when i spoke to Main Road they said a firm NO under any circusmstances and goes by BOM dawn till dusk towing only. Otherwise dammit i would have a bigger boat haha !!
Toby Roe
Posts: 118
Date Joined: 01/02/10
Thanks for the info FRR. I
Thanks for the info FRR. I bet alot of people were unaware of this clause and so now have more flexiablity with their fishing and boating. Good stuff.
Vinesh87
Posts: 2751
Date Joined: 02/04/11
Yep dammit changed Feb 2012
Yep dammit changed Feb 2012
http://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/UsingRoads/HeavyVehicles/HVOUpdates/heavyVehiclesUpdates/Pages/HVO12-2012.aspx
kane
Posts: 1752
Date Joined: 07/12/08
so
does that mean we dont even need a permit now unless we are over 2.7 ???
Gooooone Fishin!
katsy85
Posts: 209
Date Joined: 13/02/12
and...... if my new trailer
and...... if my new trailer is 2580mm i wont have to modify it????? I F..ing hope so! lots of coin saved
Vinesh87
Posts: 2751
Date Joined: 02/04/11
After speaking to main roads
After speaking to main roads i am led to believe that your trailer still needs to be under 2.5m and you still need a permit, just the curfew is now gone!
kane
Posts: 1752
Date Joined: 07/12/08
its a funny one
i purchased an oversize boat here in australia, simply transferred over ownership / rego papers and not once have i been told i require a permit....you would assume the dpi would put the hand out for extra $$$, they normally do whenever they can
Gooooone Fishin!
Rob H
Posts: 5798
Date Joined: 18/01/12
they wouldnt
probably cause the permit is nothing to do with the boat as such.
Permit is for the trailer to be able to operate with an oversize "indivisable load", even though trailer itself is not overwidth.
Also the permit nothing at all to do with DPI-its Main Roads Dept.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
NOHA
Posts: 914
Date Joined: 24/06/07
Read the link
Its all in there
That what I have noticed from a quick scan thru. There may be more
Twin turbo..V8 diesel..Ohh what a feeling!!
No Orange Hats Allowed
Magneto
Posts: 21
Date Joined: 08/01/06
Nearly bought US
What turned me off wasn't the law as I guessed u would pretty unlucky to get caught but the fact that my insurance would be useless while on the road and that where I mostly want it. That was my line of thinking... Thanks
Vinesh87
Posts: 2751
Date Joined: 02/04/11
Magneto that's the exact
Magneto that's the exact reason for me having a under 2.5m Boat (even though its a US boat ) Insurance will try everything to get out of paying. You will probably never ever get pulled up for it though !
The under 2.7 rule is great though but i cbf with not towing on the fwy and all the extra flashing lights and signs untill i get a Fury then i will have no choice haha
straith
Posts: 421
Date Joined: 25/11/13
losing my forum cherry with this post
Hi all,
Just joined and ive been looking to upgrade my 5mtr ally to one of these hot looking yankee glass boats but all the forum talk has left me once again infuriated with our nanny state. Sheesh! Crucify a guy for wanting something an inch or two thicker... or longer ;-)
I love the seaswirl 2101wa and the seafox 210 but can anyone recommend a "compliant", boat brand that has similar trim/finish for roughly same price?
Vinesh87
Posts: 2751
Date Joined: 02/04/11
Trophy 2052! Buy mine haha I
Trophy 2052! Buy mine haha I am going bigger!
seaswirl
Posts: 268
Date Joined: 29/08/10
F250
I'm going to buy an F250 to tow my boat and hire it out when I'm not using it. ..