we are all on our own! message from the government regarding great whites
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/you-are-all-on-your-own/story-e6frg12c-1226437673482
SWIMMERS should take more responsibility for keeping themselves safe from sharks, according to a Government report.
And authorities get annoyed that their efforts to educate the community often fall on deaf ears because people think they are "shark experts" when they're not.
For instance, the idea of a rogue shark that has developed a taste for human blood is unfounded.
A Department of Fisheries internal report gives a rare insight into the Government's opinions on the record spate of shark attacks off our coast.
Two weeks ago 24-year-old surfer Ben Linden became the fifth person to be killed by a shark in WA in 10 months when he was attacked off Wedge Island.
The deaths have prompted Fisheries to develop a campaign to ease fears among swimmers.
The Sunday Times obtained a report summarising a Fisheries workshop on campaign priorities.
Under the headline "Issues", it said: "Must focus on desire is for the public to have a realistic understanding of interaction with the marine environment, particularly in relation to sharks."
The document also said: "Irrespective of whether they are (or not), everyone thinks they are shark experts makes education difficult."
Fisheries Minister Norman Moore said the points raised during the workshop were not a "government position", but they were "not inconsistent with what Government is seeking to achieve through the community engagement strategy".
The report quotes data presented during the workshop by shark scientist Rory McAuley which said there had been 121 shark attacks in WA since 1893.
According to the Australian Shark Attack File, 62 per cent of these resulted in no injuries or minor injuries. Sixteen per cent of attacks were fatal.
Mr McAuley told the workshop that the "rogue shark" theory that the predators liked to prey on humans and had a taste for our meat was not supported by evidence.
It said victims of attacks were rarely eaten and that attack locations were separated by up to thousands of kilometres.
"Definition of a rogue shark includes two assumptions that there is a benefit to the shark in targeting humans and that these animals exhibit some level of residency," the report said.
"(This is) unsubstantiated opinion based on no evidence."
Mr McAuley told the workshop that data for assessing shark numbers, particularly great whites, in the state was "extremely limited".
Accurate analysis is complicated because scientists are unsure of the patterns of shark-population growth
HMM LETS JUST SAY ITS THERE FAULT SO WE DONT HAVE TO SPEND ANY MONEY FIXING THE PROBLEM!! typical bloody government
ALL FISHERMEN ARE LIARS EXCEPT YOU AND ME! AND IM NOT SO SURE ABOUT YOU!
kelsea
Posts: 76
Date Joined: 14/02/12
Live and let live, if
Live and let live, if numbers are huge cull. Being afraid is no reason to kill, fisheries should have enough stats to know the population by now and whether it is enough to warrant culling. The right bodies need to be honest and communicate so that we all know what is going on. I can tell you this I am not surfing or swimming at the beaches.
Ocean bound is where I'll be found
pigdaddy
Posts: 39
Date Joined: 25/07/12
well in a way their right, we
well in a way their right, we are in their environment and they happen to be the apex predator of that same environment. What do you think the outcry would be like if the headline read "Surfer killed by bloodthirsy Pink Snapper".. Suddenly everyone would be wanting the gov to get them as well.
In a book I have here at home it shows quite conclusivly how a person (in this case a boogy boarder) can from a sharks point of view look like a meal, imagine the boarder on the top, your underneath him/her as the shark looking up. All you see is the dark board and dark arms and legs hanging out. Looks alot like a sea turtle to me, or sometimes a surfer in the water will look like a seal, the sharks main source of food. These animals don't actively target humans, they don't even know what a human is. A male G.W. can be upward of 3T of pure instinctual hunting, like most fish we chase if they are hungry then they are probably going to be biting. Same with the sharks, most of the times the "shark attack" is the taste test, to see if it's edible. They can't just reach out and touch it after all and their eye sight is rather poor (sense of smell is amazing as well as electrical detection). So they take a taste test and go yes/no on eating it, if yes then thats when the real attack comes in and no way someone could survive that.
I just really feel that people need to stop running to the gov to solve all their problems and in the case of the whites is to realise that the ocean is their home (as well as home to probably a million more species) and that we need to respect the inherant dangers of ocean activities.
My personal thoughts on the "dumping sheep" from the live trade boats is that it could be extremely plausible if not gaurantee'd to cause an increase, after all it's a free and easy feed for a shark wandering its way down to South Australia to hunt for the seals there.
The point I'm trying to get across is that I think the Gov is right not to pour millions into this problem as it could be fixed with a bit of common sense and precaution, also I don't believe a mass culling need be done as these animals take years to grow to maturity and quite honestly are a beautifull fish for how it's evolved and what it does/can do and how it does it.
<EDIT>
Forgot to say, that please also realise that I think 99% of the attacks have happened considerably offshore, say 1km+, so the immediate danger of just say swimming isn't as bad. Still a risk to be sure but greater the further you go out.
</EDIT>
Mick
Posts: 494
Date Joined: 28/08/06
Sorry to correct you PD but I
Sorry to correct you PD but I think you'll find that majority of fatals are within 200m of the shoreline. I'm pretty sure that 3 of the 5 have been surfers who have been surfing close to the beach. Then 1 at Rotto. I'm sure someone will dig up the exact locations.
If the lord did not mean for us to eat fish and game, he wouldn't have made them outta meat
The speed of light is faster than the speed of sound. That's why so many people appear bright...until they speak.
carnarvonite
Posts: 5167
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Numbers
Fisheries only have a guess at the numbers out there from actual sightings and if they are lucky enough to get a tag in. Shark fishermen are no allowed to keep them so are not entered in to their catch reports , even if it was still alive and released. Plus there may be events where its the same shark being reported more than once.
As for the dumping of sheep from the livestock carriers, they are not allowed to dump anything until they are miles off shore so then the trail that they leave would lure the shark towards the middle east and not our coast.
As Mick has stated all the attacks have been near the shore, the Wonnerup / Forrest beach was probably the furtherest off the coast and that wouldn't have been over 2 km, the rest within 200 metres
franterie
Posts: 69
Date Joined: 28/05/10
that logic just doesnt wash with me
save the white pointers , save the live trade , save the trees, million more species we need to respect and the food that we eat drops out of the sky without killing a single animal or plant ,
get real and get a life
carnarvonite
Posts: 5167
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Save??
Wrong there, I'm all for killing them but make sure you get the right one and its not wasted when they get it.
If you read my profile you will see I used to be a pro,sharkfisherman, wetliner etc and have seen enough to know that we are only being told what they want us to know because of the difficulty and cost to go and thin the white pointer population.
crasny1
Posts: 3736
Date Joined: 16/10/08
Are you like one of my mates
Ex Cray Boat skipper. He has told me there is no way he would swim in the ocean other than a short paddle in the shallows after the "things" he has seen out deep.
As for the GW! If it is a test bite, then how come bodies have disappeared, which IS not like normal Great white attacks. I am a rogue shark theorist, study in my spare time shark attack patterns, and I am afraid this pattern is very odd. Whatever it is it is eating its victims, not just fataly test biting them. So I am with Carnarvonite, Cull the target. But how do we find the target without killing other innocent sharks.
I can live with the pattern of attacks years ago when I scuba dived, wind surfed etc, Now I am not so sure.
Praying for calm seas!
spinksy
Posts: 131
Date Joined: 06/10/10
I feel safer
Diving 20 to 30ks offshore than the three mile. These things patrol close to shore.. At santa cruz in the states they cruise around 100 to 200 meters off shore. They look for seals close to land etc every where else.. I think if we get more tags in them it will confirm this.. there will be more attacks this summer thats for sure tourism will suffer.. We dont need these things patroling our shoreline get rid of them..
meglodon
Posts: 1072
Date Joined: 17/06/10
snappermiles ain't it the truth
it's about time people took responsability for their own actions, as i have said before it was well known that a large gw was in the area. it had been seen very recently before the tragic attack and had in fact been given a nick name "brutus" i believe it was/is.no wonder this state is known as the" nanny state" every time there is a bit of a hickup a lot of peoplr scream for the government of the day to do something about it. hey good people what about using a bit of the grey matter before deciding to undertake some type of activity.how does that saying go,spot the hazard evauate the risk made the change (do i or don't i go swimming here) just about all of us will in the near future jump into our car go out on the road and drive some where,there is a quite high risk that you could be involved in an accident. if you want to stop motor vehicle accidents happening ban all vehicle from the roads, or educate people in the risks they take if care is note taken when out on the road
The same applies to all who venture out under or in the oceans
snappermiles
Posts: 1986
Date Joined: 05/11/10
i agree in some ways
like the last one surfing where they new there was a shark there! but alot of these attacks have been in random areas perth beaches, rottnest and warnbro bay, some people do need to think before swimming but the government also needs to do something! its not like these attacks have been slowly increasing its been a drastic change! the government can waste money on pay rises for already well over payed mps but cant spend a few million on a major tagging program? the program they have now is well insufficient! and there reactions to shark attacks ridiculas! its about time they really put in the hard yards and done some decent research!
ALL FISHERMEN ARE LIARS EXCEPT YOU AND ME! AND IM NOT SO SURE ABOUT YOU!
carnarvonite
Posts: 5167
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Regular spot
The hardest part of tagging them is they don't have a regular spot that they visit and having a coastline as big as ours its like trying to find the haystack needle.
Unlike South Oz where they come into Port Lincoln and in South Africa's east coast seal colonies we don't have one. Many years back it was the Frenchman's bay whaling station but thats gone and there is no reason for them to come there any more so they have to be on the spot in minutes of one appearing in the hope it stays round long enough to tag.
With the cost of the radio or satellite tages worth thousands of dollars they are not going to hand them out to any rec fisherman willy nilly to get the numbers up
snappermiles
Posts: 1986
Date Joined: 05/11/10
could this be the calling card
for a diving with the sharks tourism card they could burley the waters make money out of it and start the tagging program?? just a thought?
ALL FISHERMEN ARE LIARS EXCEPT YOU AND ME! AND IM NOT SO SURE ABOUT YOU!
carnarvonite
Posts: 5167
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Tourism?
If they set up a cage up here you could see sharks in their hundreds [not pointers]. The buggers are thicker than flies and you wouldn't need any burley.
Norman Moore and the brains trusts in Gov has already ruled out any sort of cage diving in WA , don;t blame them either. We are trying to get rid of the ones that are here without attracting any more.
trav32
Posts: 95
Date Joined: 20/01/12
Imagine a tv ad like the
Imagine a tv ad like the smoking and drink driving ones "I've swam here before I should be ok. IT'S NEVER OK".
But seriously one of the posters put it best its a responsibility thing. If your heading out into the water then it's time to realize there's always some risk. I can think of a dozen better things to throw money at than a tagging program!!
If its not a shark then it's the next in fashion thing!
little johnny
Posts: 225
Date Joined: 04/12/11
nearly 3 generations have
passed . on average 5 to 6 pups...maybe 3 live who knows...still thats a shit load off whites ..as there food declines out deep or sth africa ? there going to come in closer (patrol beaches) ...rogue shark joke,,to many have watched jaws ..l.o.l.I still think there numbers are heaps higher than what people think ..a cull is needed sooner or later ...they are the number 1 , watched doc few weeks back ,when killer whale gave one a flogging . i agree with spinksy on all accounts. heaps safer diving deep ..and get rid off them...
snappermiles
Posts: 1986
Date Joined: 05/11/10
numbers
i think if the fisheries had any clue of the numbers and they must have a guess and they released it there would be plenty of space for swimming as most people wouldnt be game enough to swim! its funny they play down how many fish they think we have to give us tighter restrictions and there playing down how many sharks they think are out there yet it is costing peoples lives! time the fisheries came clean with how many whites they think are out there and broadcast over the net when and where the tagged sharks transmitted last! because if a person was killed and it was found out to be a tagged shark that they new was there they could end up in alot of strife! it would make one hell of a court case
ALL FISHERMEN ARE LIARS EXCEPT YOU AND ME! AND IM NOT SO SURE ABOUT YOU!
sarcasm0
Posts: 1056
Date Joined: 25/06/09
Snappermiles
In this post and a few others you have commented on recently you are quite critical of the government and the people working for Fisheries WA basically blaming them for not doing enough to sort this out, I take it you will be running as a candidate for next years election or returning to school/uni so you can get a job with Fisheries since you have all the answers and solving the problem is so easy.
The people who work for Fisheries and in government that you so frequently dump on are trying to do their best in a very complex situation and I bet if it werent for the fact that they are restricted from commenting publicly they would just love to come on here and give you a piece of their mind. I mean seriously who goes to work to try to do a bad job? You tar every government employee or Fisheries employee with the same brush as if they are on the large wages like an MP and they are sitting back laughing watching people die.
Have you ever stopped to think what it is like for people working in these positions knowing that every day they go to work they have a target on their back from people like you when the reason they got into the position in the first place was to attempt to help society?
What have you done lately to better the cause of your fellow humans aside from come onto an internet forum and slag these people off as if you understand all aspects of their position with nothing better to say than 'Time for a cull'. I agree, maybe it is time for a cull and im not talking about Great Whites. We all know that the government and its departments dont always get it right, but perhaps its time to pull your head in or stick it out and actually try to help the situation instead of bringing the people in these positions down all the time.
carnarvonite
Posts: 5167
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Impossible vs Impossible
The shark research people are in an impossible position trying to come up with answers to an impossible solution.
Not enough money, resources and distances involved to get numbers for a public that wants answers yesterday
Dizzy
Posts: 718
Date Joined: 21/02/11
When the Government or any of
When the Government or any of its Departments starts performing without wasting millions of our dollars they'll deserve to start winning people's faith / respect.
This is obviously a generalisation, and there are going to be govt employees that don't deserve such a bad rep.
But I run a business that deals with many different Govt departments - and can honestly say that the majority are there for a reason, because there ain't a chance in hell that I (or many others I know) would employ them.
The good ones don't stay long as they are snapped up by companies.
Worse still, the efforts of the good ones are undone by the people above them.
My main problem is with the managers and those in charge of policies etc. - these pompous dickheads are a waste of space.
They can be fed quality, experienced information by GOOD field officers, and then turn it into worthless frogshit over a big table surrounded by people that have no f#cking idea about what goes on outside in the real world.
Then everyone beneath them cops shit for those decisions & mismanagement.
There's talk of tagging being a waste of money.
As far as I'm concerned, they're already wasting millions of dollars - so they may as well allocate some of that money to a cause that actually has SOME credibility.
snappermiles
Posts: 1986
Date Joined: 05/11/10
sarcasm
the government are a bunch of useless no hopers who will be ousted at the next election! they have no idea how to run a country. when i BAG the fisheries i am not bagging the officers them selves (i actually have a couple of mates who are officers) im bagging the clowns running the show and the mps who are too busy on summer break to sort through this problem and many others ( BOAT PEOPLE) so how bout you let me have my opinion this is a public forum where everybody can voice there own thoughts! if you dont like mine shut your face!
ALL FISHERMEN ARE LIARS EXCEPT YOU AND ME! AND IM NOT SO SURE ABOUT YOU!
sarcasm0
Posts: 1056
Date Joined: 25/06/09
So try and vote them out at the next election
And have another lot come through then, and bag them out too. I see you didnt say anything about actually trying to take on a position yourself so you can try to fix any of these problems, I take it thats all to hard and its just to easy to come online and say everything is shit without ever actually trying to do anything about it?
The whole point of my post was that if you want to change the way things are done then get in there and have a go yourself instead of bagging the ones there trying to achieve something. You are welcome to your opinion, im just saying if you want change then go make it happen, or do you just want to come here and bitch forever?
Paul H
Posts: 692
Date Joined: 18/01/07
I think from reading the
I think from reading the above we should cull some of the goverment. Theres too many of them. Trouble with voting them out is the ones replacing them are no better.
Not sure if you guys heard but 2 days ago there was a surfer attacked at Streaky Bay SA (he lived). My first thoughts were a bronzie (due to the reported injuries) and location (Back Beach which is a pretty good salmon beach and the bronzies are usually close by the Salmon schools) - but witnesses said GWhite. Later heard the bite showed it was from a bronzie. Locals are now calling for the "GWhite" to be hunted and killed.
Cheers