To all the Potheads
Not sure if this should be a heads up for all "potheads" - Cray Potters, but I just read the rules and I cannot ascertain what rules I broke.
I usually drop my pots at Rottnest, but this year I wanted to get amongst the whites. As my parents live right next to the boat ramp, it was ideal to leave my boat there and go with my old man to check the pots.
Anyway, long story short, i purchased my dad a license on the way to checking the pots as i had set two of my own pots few days back. As luck had it, first pot we pulled 25 legals.
Beauty, kept 16 of the biggest and returned the rest in the water. Didn't even bother checking the other one as it was a super lumpy and windy out there and i had to go to work.
Returned to the boat ramp, got checked by fisheries, showed him my license and my dads. Told him we only checked one pot and had 25 ( being boastful). He asked if my dad had pots out there and i said no, i just got him the license this morning on the way out.
He then told me that i was not allowed to do that, and he had to have pots in the water if he wanted his 8. Now i was a bit confused and perplexed, i admit didn't read the brochure throughly, so i thought i was in the the wrong...FECK.
With all the boaters returning, here two Asian guys with the fisheries doing a bust, i was rather embrassed.
anyway, details taken down, and was advised that the infringement would be around $400, took 8 of the crays back and threw them back in the water...
anyway, spoke to local fishing store and they weren't aware either, reading the brochure they talk about a boat limit and possession limit, no more than 2 pots per license but nothing about what i have been pinged for.
im not claiming to be an expert manner, i could be wrong still, can someone englighten me? if i am wrong, just heads up if you want to take some friends out with licenses and decide to buy on the day, coz 8 crays is easily worth more then $40, just quietly.
dodgy
Posts: 4563
Date Joined: 01/02/10
I think you were meant to
I think you were meant to say he dived for his.
Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
Supafishall
Posts: 88
Date Joined: 16/03/13
Bad buzz
Yeah it states that in book got to pull your own pots .soon your going to have to catch your fish on your own rod an hooks lol it's a joke tho really person just needs to have licence to days before u go out an they wouldn't even know if they where at the ramp checking!
"If their aint no fishing in heaven, I'm not going!"
choc
Posts: 669
Date Joined: 05/01/12
Not sure if your being
Not sure if your being sarcastic, but you do have to catch your own fish. If your out with a mate and you catch two Dhuies in a row you're required to throw the second one back even if your mate hasn't caught one yet. Not sure many people would though.
Pitty
Posts: 161
Date Joined: 08/12/12
No you don't, you don't even
No you don't, you don't even need to have a rfbl to catch a fish, as long as someone else on the boat has one and you fish within there bag limit. This is clearly stated in the guide and the act. It also states that this is not applicable to other licensed fishing activities.
This part of the reg was brought in so you could take your kids fishing with you without having to purchase them a license
UBIQUE
choc
Posts: 669
Date Joined: 05/01/12
That's true but you have to
That's true but you have to stay within the licence holders bag limit. One licence holder=one dhuie.
dkonig82
Posts: 2091
Date Joined: 06/07/10
Unless they have changed it
Unless they have changed it for this year it is not 1 licence holder 1 dhuie.
My understanding was 2 demersals per licence, max 2 dhuies per boat.
So 1 licence on boat means you can have 2 demersals - both dhuies if you like.
2 licence means you can have 4 demersals, but only 2 of the 4 can be dhuies.
3 licence 6 demersals, still only 2 of them can be dhuies.
When asked by a non-fisherman 'how many fishing rods do you really need?' the correct answer is either:
n+1 (where n is the number of fishing rods you currently own); or
n-1 (where n is the number of fishing rods which would cause your significant other to dump you.
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
I think your are right with
I think your are right with your two and three licences.... but not your one licence. One licence = one dhu + one other demersal or two other demersals. dhuie bag limit is one (boat limit is two if you have two or more licences on board)
Fish! HARD!
Deleted
Posts: 6265
Date Joined: 26/04/14
nah its 1 per licence 2 per
nah its 1 per licence 2 per boat (need 2 licences onboard) or 1 dhu 1 baldie
Paully
Posts: 3246
Date Joined: 15/08/09
That would be interesting
if there was no dive gear on the boat
SpotHound
Posts: 439
Date Joined: 06/02/14
Active Fishing
Because your Dad had no pots in the water and thus was not actively fishing, he can't lay claim to any crays.
Bloke at work got done for having 2 licenses in a boat but only one person pulling, even the magistrate could
not see the point but still fined him heaps. ie son pulls 2 pots, dad has to pull 2 pots.
Howard George
Posts: 544
Date Joined: 10/03/11
Confusing.
It's a bit confusing but as I understand the regs is you can only claim your bag limit if you pull your own pots. What you should have said was that when you pulled your pot you got 8 and when your dad pulled his pot you got another 8 that way your legit. You're allowed to BS a little.
Supafishall
Posts: 88
Date Joined: 16/03/13
Dad got licence in morning
Hey mate did they know your dad just got his licence?
if so pretty obvious he didn't have pots set!
"If their aint no fishing in heaven, I'm not going!"
Paully
Posts: 3246
Date Joined: 15/08/09
Howard - I'm curious
How could "Dad have pulled his pot and got another 8" - when his RFBL was purchased on the way to checking the pots?
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
I can't find anything in the regs or brochure
Can someone point out any where in either the brochure or the regulations covering the capture of Rock lobster just where it states that you must have purchased your licence so many hrs or days prior to it becoming active.
So
Howard goes out to pull his pots' with his dad, first pot comes up with 16 size crays, only Howard has a licence Hmmm.
Howard uses his mobile phone to get his Dad a cray fishing licence online.
Howards Dad assisted in the pulling up of the cray pot as Howard needs assistance to do this.
Both people are pulling up the pot.
Who owns the pot, they both own the pot as Howard gave 1/2 share to his Dad, so no one has pulled any other persons gear.
No regulation against helping some one to pull up their shared gear, or their own at least not that I can find.
Do you need both identification makes on the floats, again nothing I can find requires this.
Remember this is the department that has lost a few court cases on the strength of confusing contradictory regulations
and a short time back a FW member went to court and satisfied a magistrate of the inadequacy of fisheries regs.
My short answer to fisheries officers, just send me the summons and I'll see you in court, if your boss decides to pursue a prosecution that is.
Rob H
Posts: 5745
Date Joined: 18/01/12
dead right.Its crap, buy a
dead right.
Its crap, buy a licence, dive 5 minutes later and get crays.
Sounds corny but you DO NOT have to tell fisheries anything that may incriminate you and if you do not know what may incriminate you then just "Im not sure" or "I cant recall exactly".
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
bradz
Posts: 693
Date Joined: 29/10/07
Confusion
I called fisheries asking the same thing last week. They said that as long as he was on the boat and had a license that we could keep 16 crays even if he didn't have any pots in the water.
I'll call them again. Bloody annoying.
I did then the best that I knew how. When I knew better, I did better.
Walfootrot
Posts: 1386
Date Joined: 23/07/12
Just put new floats on one
Just put new floats on one pot with your dads ID on, and pull 1 each.
Fisheries must be doing it tuff hey.
At least potters can sort out their crays on the boat, divers can be busted.... have to sort them out under water... think thats BIAS LOL
More drum lines, kill the bloody sharks!
Supafishall
Posts: 88
Date Joined: 16/03/13
Brad
Lol they just hope they catch you to raise revenue!
it depends how you play your cards!
"If their aint no fishing in heaven, I'm not going!"
dumper
Posts: 1026
Date Joined: 03/04/08
This sounds like a typical
This sounds like a typical textbook fisheries play. What they do is write down all your details, pretend to be friendly and say that they're on your side, then go back to the office and realise it's a grey area rule and there's no specific charge to fine you with. Then a couple of weeks down the track you'll get a fine through registered mail, but the charge will be made out to something a lot different than what actually occurred on the day
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
not that it is any
not that it is any consolation, but basically you're getting infringed for being honest. many wouldn't have been and probably got away with it, but does that make them better people? an infringement seems harsh in the circumstances you've described. perhaps an educational warning would have been better?
Fish! HARD!
Cruise Control
Posts: 971
Date Joined: 03/11/10
Maybe they are getting in
Maybe they are getting in early and trying to prove their worth as revenue generators ? I read recently in the paper that there are several Government agencies that are going to be subjected to cost cutbacks as they continuously blow their budgets. These cost cuts will inevitably target manning levels and wage/salary costs. Fisheries was one of the agencies nominated as being targeted.
Its bollocks really when our license fees are supposed to be putting more of these guys on the water to protect fish stocks. Mind you, its always the same story, people are always the ones to cop it when its time to save money !
Bluedog
Posts: 251
Date Joined: 28/07/11
Here Here Dumper!! Haha
Here Here Dumper!! Haha
JoRn
Posts: 368
Date Joined: 20/11/07
yeah just called fisheries
yeah just called fisheries and basically claims that its in the regulations.
i actually thought it was a boat limit as per guide...oh well live and learn.
so heads up everyone, ( i do have a dive gear on board) but didn't think it was necessary...
Supafishall
Posts: 88
Date Joined: 16/03/13
Yea but
Fisheries take their job serouisly!
No room for training or education , no one has reading difficulties
"If their aint no fishing in heaven, I'm not going!"
D_d_001
Posts: 1522
Date Joined: 09/03/13
question for allIs my decky
question for all
Is my decky allowed to throw my pot back in the water after ....ofcourse I pulled it ?
can only find "pots must be pulled by the licence holder"
so could you go out and set someone else's pots?
Paul G
Posts: 5215
Date Joined: 12/12/07
Same goes for diving for
Same goes for diving for crays We dive three guys all have a lisence .One guy dosen\t dive ,by law the other two divers can't give him 8 crays as he didn't catch them . You are aloud two pots and can catch 8 crays from your pots. Your dad can also have two pots and he can get 8 crays from his two pots .but you can;t give him 8 from your pots and he cant give you any from his pots .Now if your dad had two pots in the water and you you were asked the same question ,then the answer to the fisheries officer would have been yes we pulled all our pots and you would have been fine. Allthough this is no legal everyone does it .Not having pots for dad was your undoing.
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Dkontor
Posts: 54
Date Joined: 20/08/14
All rather academic for me
All rather academic for me as i do not chase sea cockroaches, but doesn't that mean if his dad could not physically pull the pots - whether it be a bad back, a hook to the finger or the pot is too damn full of crays to lift the is not entitled to the crays? how is that fair as he has still paided for a license, and is still right there, and the pot could still have his name on it. whats happens if 2 people pull the pot? does that mean if 2 people go out, help each other pull the 4 pots, and they only catch 16 crays in 1 pot only the person that has his name on that pot can take his 8 crays?
Seems like a money making thing to me, but who has time and money enough to fight it?
Paul G
Posts: 5215
Date Joined: 12/12/07
If your going to tell
If your going to tell fisheries you got all 16 from two pots when you have 4 in the water then your are not right in thre head . Bit of a no brainer .
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Rob H
Posts: 5745
Date Joined: 18/01/12
from now on Id suggest just
from now on Id suggest just declining to answer specific technical questions or just I cant recall.
I have told my kids they arent to answer direct questions-friggin stupid, a bad example and all that but as long as they intend relying on minor technical infringements.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Auslobster
Posts: 1901
Date Joined: 03/05/08
When you think about it...
...they should be encouraging people to use only two pots with two licences...less of a navigational hazard, less potential damage to the reef, less fuel, etc etc etc. Typical government approach of guilty until proven innocent.
Ol Tom
Posts: 331
Date Joined: 17/12/13
Its a bullsh*t rule then. You
Its a bullsh*t rule then. You have taken a legal limit of legal size crays. Doing the righty obviously doesnt pay.
tangles
Posts: 1367
Date Joined: 17/12/06
interesting one
when my little girl was 3 I got her a licence, I had mine as well. We went out 4 pots. I pulled all 4 pots as she was way too young to pull them even with the capstan on tinny. Never had a problem with fisheries when we came in n they checked our crays or licences.
And fisheries never had a problem issuing a licence to a 3 year old.
I do the same now that shes 5 butit will be pulling pots from the stones.
Paul G
Posts: 5215
Date Joined: 12/12/07
Its very simple ,1person 2
Its very simple ,
1person 2 pots 8 crays
2people 4pots 16 crays and
3 people 6pots 24 crays
If you want 8 crays ,2 pots in the water 1 licence holder on the boat .16 crays you need 4 pots in the water 2 licence holders on the boat, if you want 24 crays 6 pots in the water 3 licence holders on the boat. you made the mistake of bosting you got 16 out of two pots.
If your kids are 2- 5 years old and can't pull a pot ,well they pass the bait, or pass you the floats or pass you you cray gauge as long as they activly helped in some way to catch the crays and pull the pots all goodAsaid you had two licences and only two pots so you are only aloud 8 crays .
Dosn't matter what bullshit you think the rules are or how unfair you think it is , the rules are very clear .
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D_d_001
Posts: 1522
Date Joined: 09/03/13
what's wrong with two ppl
what's wrong with
two ppl
two pots in the water one pot each ?
16 crays ;)
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
+1
Fish! HARD!
Paul G
Posts: 5215
Date Joined: 12/12/07
Sorry yep thats fine also
Sorry yep thats fine also you can pull one of your pots and one off the other guys pots for your crays you don't have to pull both ,At the end of the day how much do you have to explain to people its friggin common sense .
Active Gyp-Rok solutions ,Residential and commercial ceilings and walls
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
You are right on the money
Can anyone show me in any document from Fisheries that states you must fish with 2 pots, because I can't find it. You are allowed to fish with 2 pots if you hold a licence, nothing about must fish.
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
hang on
so my decky pulled his two pots today and then pulled my two as i was skippering the boat , being pedantic but does that mean we broke the rules too ,
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
I don't believe that is the
I don't believe that is the intention of the law. I believe you have to be actively involved. driving the boat is being actively involved...
Fish! HARD!
Paul G
Posts: 5215
Date Joined: 12/12/07
No that is fine you are
No that is fine you are both actively pulling your pots as long as you have two licences and two pots each . And take no more than your 16 crays
My uncle goes out and pulls his pots in the morning on his boat and then goes out on two other boats and skippers for them , while they pull there pots he is not aloud any crays and can't pull any of his pots for a second time regardless of wheather he got his 8 crays or not. but he can activly help others pull theres.
Active Gyp-Rok solutions ,Residential and commercial ceilings and walls
uncle
Posts: 9353
Date Joined: 10/02/07
Agreed guess we all need to say
Yep pulled all pots
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
your right
your right but bloody hell how stupid is that rule
Versus
Posts: 918
Date Joined: 06/03/09
Seems pretty harsh. Could've
Seems pretty harsh. Could've chucked half the crays and given you a warning. Got licences, within bag limit (theoretically), all crays are size... obviously not a muppet. Rules is rules but sometimes they aren't that easy to interpret and this situation could've been handled much better by fisheries imo.
Breeds distrust and bad relations. If you had of lied you would've been ok...
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
It all comes down to the
It all comes down to the intention of the law, which is to keep the fishery sustainable. bottom line is two licences = 16 crays. If the experts didn't think this was sustainable then the boat limit wouldn't be more than one licence.
Fish! HARD!
out wide
Posts: 1535
Date Joined: 30/12/08
All OK
Your dad if licenced has a right to 8 crays. He doesn't have to have pots in.
Rob H
Posts: 5745
Date Joined: 18/01/12
and you dont have to tell
and you dont have to tell them anything.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
lastcast
Posts: 215
Date Joined: 04/04/13
you can get a licence usong your phone out there
old matey is a research scientist for a fisheries organisation,
This is what his boss did when they saw a fisheries boat approaching
Their boat (they had gone over matey's' limit), he had a receipt number
By the time they came board and all good.
dumper
Posts: 1026
Date Joined: 03/04/08
If you've got the time to
If you've got the time to take it to court, go for it
Anyfishwilldo (not verified)
Posts: 23
Date Joined: 01/01/70
From my understanding it
From my understanding it only stipulates you must only pull your own pots... Doesn't say anything about not being able to share the catch over a difference license holder. If that wasn't the case they would stipulate a minimum as well as a max number of pots per boat... Im probably wrong and if I am its a bit rough... Like people have said sometimes honesty doesn't pay.
hezzy
Posts: 1519
Date Joined: 27/11/09
if you read the relevant part
if you read the relevant part of the act which is quite wordy , but in a nut shell
it states pretty much you cant legally take your legal limit of rock lobster unless ''you '' are fishing with legal cray pots that have your legal gear id on them and that you have pulled
so even with a licence your dad did not have any legal gear in the water for him to thus pull and take legal crays with
very technical pinch imo , im sure they could have given you a warning and let it go at that , with two licences and 16 crays on board you where a bit stiff to cop it really
word of warning though on how there enforcing the rules , pity they didn't explain them better
hezzy
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
NORUN NOFUN
Posts: 1019
Date Joined: 15/08/11
I hate that it leaves you
I hate that it leaves you disillusioned with fisheries, next time no matter who they are, you will be annoyed with them.
Not good judgement by the fisheries officer as a warning can be a hell of alot more effective.
MandurahMatt
Posts: 613
Date Joined: 18/09/13
wow that post made my head
wow that post made my head hurt, bottom line is you need to know the rules inside out before you do anything as stupid as some of the rules are. either tell them nothing or tell them what they want to hear, i pull my dads pots for him but he helps coil the ropes up as i pull them so we are both activley involved.
Bewdey Fellaz
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
good to see
down at the Bent street ramp yesterday , two loverly blonde fisheries girls , they had a great demeanor jumped on my boat and measured my crays and checked the tails clipped . was all good next boat on the other side of the ramp weren't so happy , two undersize crays, 2 duhies 2 snapper none of the four blokes had fishing liciences and no rec skippers ticket think it would have been an expensive morning out
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
Fish! HARD!
Messiah
Posts: 96
Date Joined: 19/05/13
Really not hard. He had a
Really not hard. He had a likky but no pots. You MUST pull your own pots. He didn't pull his own pots coz u told them he didn't have any. Rookie mistake.
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
Some people arn't suited to holding authority
Sadly some people get through the system and end up with jobs which rely on interpreting legislation, applying the law and using common sense to enact a fitting penalty for the suspected breach.
In applying a fitting penalty they must consider what effect the penalty is going to have by way of stopping (hopefully) that person from commiting further breaches.
By applying such a harsh penalty when it can be demonstrated by the person that,
no intention was made to break the regulations (in fact he had purchased a licence) and although ignorance is no defence under the act it can clearly be demonstrated that compliance with the act was intended.
I'll take my chances in court thank you very much.
As a side issue next time an obnoxious Fisheries officer is uncounted send in a complaint to the minister, with the Fisheries getting reviewed for savings this person (if brought to the notice of the minister) might find himself on the not required any more list.
He does the Fisheries no good service by his actions, we all support the Fisheries and their good service to the fishing activities of west Australians for without them we would be in a sorry state so far as fish stocks go.
Sulo
Posts: 256
Date Joined: 13/08/11
Spot on Meglodon, it was
Spot on Meglodon, it was certainly not good fisheries compliance at work that day.
Why don't they spend their time busting the pricks who pull and take our pots, it is not easy work like sitting on a boat ramp catching unsuspecting license holders who accidently incriminate themselves.
Yet the people pulling and taking our pots are certainly not worried about licenses or licensed pots, pulling pots at night, number of pots pulled, fin clipping, setose, size limits or illegally selling catch. Do some real work fisheries.
Believe it or not our fisheries have actually won national awards for their surveillance work in the crime fighting circles this was not a good example of it.
Brooky
Posts: 74
Date Joined: 25/04/10
Should have just said your
Should have just said your dad was coiling the rope at the same time so technically you both pulled the pot that you gave a partial share to as a present that morning.
Just get me back on the water
Ol Tom
Posts: 331
Date Joined: 17/12/13
Yeah clear as mud Paul G!!
Yeah clear as mud Paul G!! thats why people dont understand. Thats why people with good intentions get caught out. Its bullshit!
Paul G
Posts: 5215
Date Joined: 12/12/07
Yep clear as a bell ,people
Yep clear as a bell ,people just need to learn the rules before going craying or fishing and stop making up excuses.When getting busted.iM NOT HAVING A GO AT ANY ONE PERSON HERE ,And I do agree that the fisheries could have given a warning.But I bet they here the same things over and over .Everyone be court out will have some excuse, they must get told some ripper stories to avoid a fine, And not knowing the rules Is the worst one going .learn the rule fish within the rules and happy time.
Active Gyp-Rok solutions ,Residential and commercial ceilings and walls
uncle
Posts: 9353
Date Joined: 10/02/07
I don't understand this
the guy has no pots, most of you seem to condone it, where would it all end, multipule people go out with no pots and share the catch, if you want crays buy some f..... pots I reakon
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
Walfootrot
Posts: 1386
Date Joined: 23/07/12
Next time Fisheries Officer's
Next time Fisheries Officer's want to get on my boat, they will be told to do what they have to then get off, no chit chat, no more fish frames.
Tell them nothing, Just yer pulled our pots, here's the lic, here's the crays. look through the boat if you want then F#$k off.
They are getting a very bad name and thats no suprise with the way they have been treating some people.
Then they have the cheek to ask for help with frames and info on catches etc.
Know they read the sites, Dont care.
Always have fished within the rules and regs, and always will, but now they will be treated the same way they treat people. stuff em
More drum lines, kill the bloody sharks!
devhay
Posts: 328
Date Joined: 27/10/14
damned if they do and damned
damned if they do and damned if they dont?
You guys are always saying you want them to catch the people breaking the rules and throw the book at them, then complain when you've broken the rules because you didn't understand them and expect to be let off with a warning?
I get the rules aren't as clear cut as they should be.. but you can't hold two different standards, they've got a job to do and they're doing it.
Walfootrot
Posts: 1386
Date Joined: 23/07/12
Nar more to it than whats on
Nar more to it than whats on this post.
There is a big difference between what happened here and say someone taking undersize fish, crabs etc.
But you are right rules are rules, maybe if fisheries made the rules more clear cut, then people trying to do the right thing would not end up in the poo?
" they've got a job to do and they're doing it " Its more about the way they are doing it ( some of them anyway ).
Education is great but it does not raise revenue hey....
More drum lines, kill the bloody sharks!
crasny1
Posts: 6986
Date Joined: 16/10/08
Bit harsh both ways. JoRn
Bit harsh both ways. JoRn incriminated himself and Father by simply saying the truth. The regs appear clear on that.
BUT to blame fisheries is also wrong, because as mentioned above damned if they do, damned if they dont. I have no issues with fisheries at all. Not even the time when they wouldnt help me out when out boat got stuck on Cable Beach on an incoming tide. I did yell at them to help the bogged boat out but they had no snatchy, and mine was being used. Got help from others and did abuse them a little when they checked the catch after we got freed.
But in the end they are doing a job. This one is certainly pedantic and I feel for JoRn but technically thats the rules. Ignorance of the rules, or misinterpretation is no excuse unfortunately.
I suspect that back at the office they may well decide to exercise some discretion, and I would wait until you DO get the notice. Mate got caught at Bouvard with 10 large crabs, proudly showing them to Fisheries. Also proudly produced his licence, only to be told it was 2 days out off expiry. Man was he embarassed and was told to expect a fine, but it never came. I suspect the fisheries officers were just enjoying seeing the shock on his face, and his agony.
I welcome them on the boat anytime as I feel secure that the Rednecks out there will also get a visit, and that I enjoy.
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
WALLABOK
Posts: 52
Date Joined: 05/01/14
What if you in a partnership?
With the cost of fuel, bait and the initial setup fees, it made perfect sense to split the costs. Based on the initial post would that mean we put both gear numbers on the floats???
Wallabok
DTrain
Posts: 486
Date Joined: 10/02/12
The guidelines definitely say
The guidelines definitely say you have to pull your own pots (pull in relation to a rock lobster pot, means to bring the pot from the seabed to the surface of the sea)... JoRn pulled his own pots.
The guidelines say the bag limit is 8 crayfish per person per day... JoRn and his dad were within this limit.
The guidelines say that if there are two people on board the boat limit is 16... JoRn and his dad were within this limit.
I can't find anywhere where it says whether or not you can keep crayfish that has come out of someone elses pot after it's been pulled. It doesn't say you can and doesn't say you can't so it's a bit of a gray area. If anyone can find where it says you can't then feel free to post it.
It might be worth going to court and just seeing what they say. Could save yourself $400.
grantarctic1
Posts: 2546
Date Joined: 03/03/11
At first
At fist i thought it was clear, he didn't have any gear in the water and no way to fish for the crays in his possesion. But as you say, there is no mention of having to meet those requirements that i can see. I also read through the fisheries managment act and it has no reference to the problem at hand.
One thing i never noticed before was on the fishing guide it states , The guide cannot be used as deffence in a court of law. I don't understand this considering it is how we work out right from wrong while fishing.
It is frustrating to see flaws in the guide or lack of clear rules as they have had plenty of time to sort these issues out since releasing the guide in 2013.
I think in this case a warning would have been good enough, and as others have said the answer of " yes we pulled all the pots " would have been best in this situation.
dumper
Posts: 1026
Date Joined: 03/04/08
Maybe we could get
Maybe we could get recfishwest to lobby for a FAQ section in the licence booklet. I've been seeing a lot of posts here and Facebook in the last couple of weeks saying how they've got their 16 limit in their first pot and haven't bothered checking their others. Seems a lot of people are inadvertently doing the same thing.
Akers67
Posts: 29
Date Joined: 23/01/14
Pulling your own pot
Does that also mean you can't help pull the pot in, it's pretty tough pulling it on your own. Technically I would be pulling someone's else's pot?
DTrain
Posts: 486
Date Joined: 10/02/12
It doesn't really say. Common
It doesn't really say.
Common sense would say that you should be allowed to help someone who is pulling their own pots. Whether or not fisheries officers decide to use common sense, who knows.
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
had some divers
had some divers pull over to my boat today , hey you blokes how many crays have you got , just 6 we shouted back ,well we are 3 over the limit your welcome to them , cheers we will have them thanks . Wrong I guess ???? but we were still well under the limit . Just karma I guess when we got back to the ramp those blokes were tied up to the end of the ramp , I asked whats wrong , we left the headlights on and the battery is flat in the tow vehicle , no problem I told them I have some loooong jumper leads in my ute (about 6 meters long)
Ol Tom
Posts: 331
Date Joined: 17/12/13
See there ya P mac, one good
See there ya P mac, one good deed deserve another. Thats how it works everybody goes home happy
Rob H
Posts: 5745
Date Joined: 18/01/12
funny reading some of the
funny reading some of the replies here
I wonder if those people pull over when seeing a cop parked up and tell them "Im sorry officer but yesterday I did 118kph briefly on the way to work"
Does anyone lose sleep after pulling and keeping 16 crays from 1 pot with their mate/dad/son?
Honestly-if that is the most challenging moral dilemma to face this year, I reckon its been a pretty friggin good year!
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
My only wish is that next
My only wish is that next season I get to have at least one pot in the water and more often than not it has some crays in it to keep. This bagging out after pulling one pot is a concept unknown to me....
Fish! HARD!
sea-kem
Posts: 14857
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Yeah well, I'll be happy if
Yeah well, I'll be happy if I have to deal with this dilema next week when I pull mine.
Love the West!
sarcasm0
Posts: 1396
Date Joined: 25/06/09
Wow.
So a real can of worms here. First port of call is http://www.fish.wa.gov.au/Documents/recreational_fishing/licences/rec_licence_rock_lobster.pdf for the act, P17. Then: https://www.slp.wa.gov.au/legislation/statutes.nsf/main_mrtitle_345_homepage.html
and https://www.slp.wa.gov.au/legislation/statutes.nsf/main_mrtitle_1458_homepage.html
Apparently you need to be careful that the fisheries publications do not state to true wording of the act and regulation. I personally feel that all this shit about boat limits/licence holders is crap. If two valid licence holders go out and get a valid bag by diving or pots who gives a shit if 16 crays come out of one pot or three. Same for dhuies per boat. The stated aim was to reduce fishing pressure by 50% a few years back by implementation of seasonal closures, licence changes etc which they acknowledge they achieved. Fair crack of the sauce, have a go in court I reckon. Fuck me, I have had a licence for two years and have not caught any crays myself personally cause I dont have a boat I feel comfortable to pot from and with work I really havent dived much and I suck with the loop. I have had three crays given to me in that time and they were awesome and well appreciated. Tell them to tally them up on me!
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
+1 for that. The intention
+1 for that. The intention of fisheries legislation is, and should be to maintain a sustainable fishery for future generations. If the experts say a boat limit of 24 crays PER DAY is sustainable, then really what is the issue with two licenced fisherman getting 16 crays? one thing that I am unsure about in the original scenario is did the dad have both an rfbl AND a cray licence? if it was both, no worries, but if it was only the latter, there in may lie the problem????
Fish! HARD!
dumper
Posts: 1026
Date Joined: 03/04/08
Nope. Don't need an rfbl if
Nope. Don't need an rfbl if you're only catching Crays
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
Not so sure.... any fishing
Not so sure.... any fishing from a boat, or where you have accessed using a boat I believe requires an rfbl. so if you are a diver and walking into the water from the beach you wouldn't need an rfbl, but set foot on s boat and motor out to the dive grounds and you need one. correct me if I am wrong.
Fish! HARD!
dumper
Posts: 1026
Date Joined: 03/04/08
Cray license covers it. But
Cray license covers it. But if you were to catch crabs, it's a different story
Pitty
Posts: 161
Date Joined: 08/12/12
Correct
UBIQUE
Walfootrot
Posts: 1386
Date Joined: 23/07/12
210 pages.... printing, good
210 pages.... printing, good thing I am at work
More drum lines, kill the bloody sharks!
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
And at this point in a
And at this point in a thread this long with so many different interpretations, someone from fisheries should jump on and say, "blah blah blah, this is the correct interpretation....." and then all of us, who all want to do the right thing will be clear and better educated on what the correct thing to do is!
Fish! HARD!
hezzy
Posts: 1519
Date Joined: 27/11/09
randall, in a perfect world
randall, in a perfect world that would be good, but I highly doubt they will commit any such interpretation to written words here or anywhere else unless its gov approved publications
not gunna happen imho
the legislation is written in legal speak which is hard in some ways to interprete , then the fisheries guide is just that a guide, not reliable really
this scenario is anew one for most of us, seems fisheries have changed tack on how there adhering to the legislation or enforcing it this season
the blokes did all they could to reasonably stay within the law a fine is harsh imo , when a warning would and could have done the same job
lets see what he gets in the mail
hezzy
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
If fisheries are changing
If fisheries are changing their interpretation, what hope have we got? and all the more reason for a rep to explain it.... who do they think they are? the afl umpires association?
Fish! HARD!
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
Lets just wait and see what the razor gang will do to fisheries
It will be interesting to see how many put up their hands for a redundancy package. I hope not to many of the old brigade put their hands up as a lot of people skills will be lost
Walfootrot
Posts: 1386
Date Joined: 23/07/12
Funny how the fines are being
Funny how the fines are being handed out left, right and center this year for things where a warning would be better suited.
Guess thats what happens when funding is reduced, only one other means to increase $ coming in.... from us.
Now I am not saying that people doing the wrong thing should not be fined, just look at the persons intent, if the rules are gray in the guides, then a warning would suit IMO.
Taking more than the limit, undersize, snapper closure etc the rules are very clear, throw the book at them.
Take diving for crays, you are required as a diver to sort your crays before you get back to the boat ( well thats the latest from fisheries ).
What is the differance between potters sorting the crays out on the boat and divers sorting theirs out on the boat?
Ok you can see if the cray has tar spot, eggs etc, but fine hairs?
I have seen fisheries drying female crays at the ramp looking for fine hair on female crays... bit hard to do under water
Counting crays in you dive bag is a bit hit and miss.
Just saying
More drum lines, kill the bloody sharks!
crasny1
Posts: 6986
Date Joined: 16/10/08
This I fully agree with
AND you also have to float there in the briny exposed to Bruce the GWS. LOL
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
Notorious
Posts: 914
Date Joined: 23/02/12
Fisheries valuesRespect –
Fisheries values
Respect – acting with integrity and courtesy
Perhaps write to them regarding your matter and highlight their first value and say their action with infringing you didnt seem to align with it.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/174055815943047/?fref=nf