Another noob question about a first boat
Hi All,
So this is my first post as I have been unable to find my answers from searching google and this forum. I am searching for my first boat and dont have much for it (around $7k) so I would just like some opinions on what I am looking at. I dont have any mates who are knowledgable on this subject either! My only experience is I have been in a 4.2m tinny with a 30hp tiller and it was fun for a bit of fishing.
I live in east freo so will be using the boat mostly on the river, rockingham and Mandurah. Would be nice to have some fun with biscuits and if at all possible a knee/wakeboard (maybe im not being realistic). The three I was thinking about looking at are below
www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/mandurah/motorboats-powerboats/savage-osprey-15ft-power-boat/1086989938
www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/silver-sands/motorboats-powerboats/quintrex-lazeabout-/1087249607
www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/halls-head/motorboats-powerboats/4-6-stacer-boat/1088631343
What are the opinions of these boats? The Osprey was going to be my first choice due to it had the newest engine, then the lazabout because I like the hull shape (assuming its good because it flares :S? ).
Bruce
Posts: 527
Date Joined: 11/04/12
Gday mate,Savage would be my
Gday mate,
Savage would be my first choice- the tohatsu is not a bad motor, plus has the auxillary which could probably be sold for a few extra $$ if you don't think you need it!
Already has sounder and GPS which is a bonus. Extras you'd probably have to get are flares and and epirb for fishing more than 5nm out. Not bad
Good things on the quinny are that it has a good canopy and rocket launchers. Doesn't look like it has high freeboard. Not sure if it comes with a GPS/ Sounder which you'd have to fork out some $$ for.
Good things for the stacer is that it's licenced and has a painted hull. Thats about where it ends! I personally would stay away from johnsons, had a 2000 model one myself which was an absolute dog!
With a boat like the Savage the sky is the limit! I've only recently started fishing solo out from woodies around garden island and up to about 8km out in my 4.6m runabout and I do it easy. Cockburn Sound will become your backyard soon enough. I was out the other day and on the way in saw a 3.8m tinny coming in from between Garden and Carnac Island so you will have no dramas in either of the three above.
Will it be able to pull a buscuit? Yes. Will it pull it fast? Not really. But can you still have some fun with it? Definetly!
Just be careful of the hidden costs- safety gear that you will need, insurance every year, rego for hull and trailer- it all adds up every year!
Good luck mate
clueless
Posts: 58
Date Joined: 03/09/15
Thanks for the heads up
Thanks for the heads up about the hidden costs.... one thing I have overlooked!
Vinesh87
Posts: 2751
Date Joined: 02/04/11
My first boat was a 4.8m
My first boat was a 4.8m Osprey absolutely loved it. Use to fish the back of ffb but that was about it. Wouldnt do rotto in it to be honest. I had a flawless 70hp tohatsu with sure to be 1000+hrs. It use to fly, they are good basic motors! A easy solo boat!
clueless
Posts: 58
Date Joined: 03/09/15
Hi mate. So i take it the
Hi mate. So i take it the 4.8 is a different hull to the one i had posted or has the seller not measured it correctly? Any pictures?
So if you had a 70 the 40 might be underpowered?
Vinesh87
Posts: 2751
Date Joined: 02/04/11
When loaded up yes but not
When loaded up yes but not really issue for your inshore fishing. I did use to full 70 quite a few times, you could ski behind mine haha
Swompa
Posts: 3786
Date Joined: 14/10/12
Often see boats around 4m at
Often see boats around 4m at Mewstone so a 4.8 will be great for inside the islands
clueless
Posts: 58
Date Joined: 03/09/15
Thanks for the replies guys.
Thanks for the replies guys. The osprey does look to be decent for the money considering the extra motor and finder and navman! Iv yet to see it (going down tomorrow) do you guys have any pictures? Its only problem is it doesn't have trim/tilt but i could also add that using the cmc kit for $1000 (sell the aux to fund it)
I also read that the 40hp tohatsu is a 50hp block with smaller injectors...not looked into that yet though.
Ill definitely leave that savage with the johnson alone!
My misses has picked this boat out because she says it's pretty... www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/wembley/motorboats-powerboats/renovated-boat-for-sale/1072890731
Must admit it looks nice but does anyone have any idea about that hull? Its close by so i might view it! Is that engine any good?
peterm8
Posts: 45
Date Joined: 25/10/13
Gumtree
Mate, a 115hp (4 cyl Merc by the looks ofit) is close to dangerously overpowered on that sized boat. Stick to a hull with a name, like the voyager / yamaha powered rig also on gumtree. Don't rush in, there are plenty around at the moment.
Ambition and Ability - Don't confuse them!
clueless
Posts: 58
Date Joined: 03/09/15
Thanks. yeah really dont
Thanks. yeah really dont want to rush into it but at the same time I am so green I would struggle to see a good buy if it slapped me in the face haha.
epic restos and...
Posts: 226
Date Joined: 22/06/15
pm me and we could
pm me and we could chat
regards todd
Paj man
Posts: 359
Date Joined: 16/09/12
If you get the one with the Tohatsu
For god's sake get the motor mechanically checked!
aka Nick
clueless
Posts: 58
Date Joined: 03/09/15
Sure will mate.
Sure will mate.
D_d_001
Posts: 1522
Date Joined: 09/03/13
thought I'd chime in. one of
thought I'd chime in. one of the best sites to do research is "the hull truth". may not get much about ausie hulls there but start your research on motors there.
On the Johnson subject. Certainly not saying to buy that boat but don't discount the motor. (no offence Bruce..... most of what you say is very good advise) Johnsons are renown for a couple of things....Reliability and thirst being two.
I've had my Johno for 10 years and not one "no start" or breakdown in those 10 years. the carbi Johnsons are great motors.
the only "non reliable" engine that Johnson produced was the Ficht motor '97-'98.
I once had a HJ 45 landcruiser that was a piece of crap but ofcourse cruisers in general are well built.
clueless
Posts: 58
Date Joined: 03/09/15
So i went to see the savage
So i went to see the savage osprey. Seemed like a really decent boat, big enough for a few friends which is good. Owned by an older couple who upgraded. He used it only for canal use around mandurah but was convinced you couldn't take it out at all.
He mentioned it gets 20knots on the gps, it has no power trim/tilt and i was wondering if this sounded good for the hull and 40 tohatsu. Could it be improved with trim adjustment?
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
Have a talk with
One of the site sponsors (epic marine) has made you an offer that is too good not to take up. He may even have some knowledge about the boat.
clueless
Posts: 58
Date Joined: 03/09/15
Yes i messaged him
Yes i messaged him
milsey
Posts: 1462
Date Joined: 22/08/07
A few that i would be having
A few that i would be having a look at, whithout having seen any in the flesh i personally would be making a trip to see that Pacemaker. Unless you go sub 50hp you might struggle to find any four strokes in that price range, the saltwater Yams are a rough/thirsty donk like most 2sts but at that age and hours you shouldnt have any problems.
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/albany-6330/motorboats-powerboats/pacemaker-5-5-mtr-with-2011-153-hrs-yamaha-130hp/1087831131
clueless
Posts: 58
Date Joined: 03/09/15
Thanks for the
Thanks for the recomendations. I have looked at them all and went to view the Voyager formula 1500 with the 50hp ETEC. Was a nice boat but it seemed big - but with very little space. but it was within budget. the style craft with the brand new 50 mentioned it hadd electrolysis in the hull..not sure what that entails to repair but it didnt sound good to me. The pacemaker has had my eye too, really wish it was closer to view, just cannot justify a 5hr trip to see it.
dodgy
Posts: 4563
Date Joined: 01/02/10
I had a savage osprey as my
I had a savage osprey as my first boat too. Was a great rig. 70 yam. I feel the 40 would be a little underpowered.
Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
clueless
Posts: 58
Date Joined: 03/09/15
Was it the same as in the
Was it the same as in the ad? Because when i type savage osprey into google I cannot find a boat that looks the same!
So you think 40 isnt going to be enjoyable?
dodgy
Posts: 4563
Date Joined: 01/02/10
Pretty sure the one in the
Pretty sure the one in the add is a mark 1 and mine was a mark 2. Very similar hull, both 4.8.
The newer Ospreys they increased to a 5.25m.
Did a bit of everything with mine. Had pots in, towed biscuits, bottom bashed offshore and even blasting around the shallows at the Abrolhos.
Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
Vinesh87
Posts: 2751
Date Joined: 02/04/11
Just had a look at the add,
I think it's a old Savage Scorpion not Osprey ?
Just had a look at the add, def looks smaller than my 4.8 was, maybe its not osprey looks like a 4.5 size. Mine had much higher gunwales and didnt have cut in for the motor but a bench all the way across the back ? And didnt have the tinny style seats! And i have split windscreen.
I might add mine was the 1985 model too!
Heres a few pics of my old girl! See the differences!
clueless
Posts: 58
Date Joined: 03/09/15
The hull seems a lot deeper
The hull seems a lot deeper on that osprey too! So that osprey is even older... condition was good for its age then, no signs of any bumps in the hull. But Ill keep it bookmarked as it doesn't have power trim.
At first looking for a boat was exciting. .. I'm slowly realising This is hard!
dodgy
Posts: 4563
Date Joined: 01/02/10
Those pics are the same as
Those pics are the same as mine was. Split windscreen.
Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
clueless
Posts: 58
Date Joined: 03/09/15
Few more I will view this
Few more I will view this weekend.
I am going to trry and view some more this weekend:
www.boatsales.com.au/boats-for-sale/private/used/SSE-AD-3079998/1979-PENGUIN-CUSTOM
www.boatsonline.com.au/boats-for-sale/used/power-boats/savage-atlantic/160664
www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/waroona/motorboats-powerboats/fraser-runabout/1077722465
www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/secret-harbour/motorboats-powerboats/bonito-runabout-/1088365754
www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/lathlain/motorboats-powerboats/17ft-chivers-pursuit-with-2003-90-hp-mariner-outboard/1088283476
clueless
Posts: 58
Date Joined: 03/09/15
Back again...Can someone
Back again...
Can someone enlighten me on the following boat. A bermuda 475 bay cruiser, anyone have an idea of the ride, stability? Mor importantly I am questioning the engine choice, its a 60hp 'bigfoot', I thought these were for pontoons etc... With it having a lower gear ratio I understand it has low down torque so better 'out the hole' but would this be sacrificed heavily on WOT top speeds? As in would it be screaming, using a load of fuel and going no where?
www.boatsonline.com.au/boats-for-sale/used/power-boats/bermuda-475-bay-cruiser-islander/173203
A side note, would this be capable of a rottnest run? not too bothered if not but when I rang a mechanic for a inspection price he said ' oh thats getting into rottnest territory'
clueless
Posts: 58
Date Joined: 03/09/15
So a few boats i liked have
So a few boats i liked have now gone but while at the marine mechanics yard he politely took time to sit with me and look through a few boats online. He said these two boats are worth a look, a thunderbird and nautiglass, he said as he lived near the nautiglass he would do an inspection for $50. I like both boats and wwas told they would be great first river/cockburn sound boats capable of a rottnest trip too. He said he would be leaning toward the thunderbird as the two engines didn't change much from 96 to 06 so believed it could still be a good engine.
What's the views of a few of you veteran boaties...
17ft nautiglass (Over Dhue),
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/mullaloo/motorboats-powerboats/17ft-nautiglass-over-dhue-/1080479979
Price: $ 8,500.00
Chivers thunderbird 5.5 metre,
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/yanchep/motorboats-powerboats/chivers-thunderbird-5-5-metre/1089147871
epic restos and...
Posts: 226
Date Joined: 22/06/15
thunder bird very good hull
thunder bird very good hull and alrounder but they are heavy for there size but good starting point as you can always upgrade as time gos on
clueless
Posts: 58
Date Joined: 03/09/15
Thanks. Have you had any
Thanks. Have you had any experience with the nautiglass? Seems there isnt too much out there on that boat. Out of the two it seems the best value for money, comes with safety gear, epirb, fishfinder/gps and a 2007 motor.
holth
Posts: 812
Date Joined: 09/10/06
Dont know about the boat in
Dont know about the boat in question but Hopefully it doesn't come with rotted out stringers and transom, being a 34 year old hull.
Dont Just get the motor checked , get the hull looked at also.
Small outlay now mite save a bigger outlay later.
clueless
Posts: 58
Date Joined: 03/09/15
Well i went to view the
Well i went to view the nautiglass and really liked it. So will be getting a mechanic inspection this week. Hope she's a gooden :-) really nervous about buying my first boat.
The whole transom was cut out and rebuilt by the previous owner (4-5 years ago) when the merc 75 went on. Can anyone think of a reason if this should bother me? It's been used for fishing of the back of rotto and up at exmouth for the last 3 years so if there was any issues it would of happened before now right?
holth
Posts: 812
Date Joined: 09/10/06
Clueless. Obviously there
Clueless. Obviously there was some rott through the transom if its been replaced in the past. Repaired by owner or reputable glasser.
What about the stringers. Did they get looked at. These are questions you need to ask the owner and if it still concerns you get someone who knows what there looking at to check it out.
Could be a expensive exercise if theres rotted out stringers.
JMO.
Paul
clueless
Posts: 58
Date Joined: 03/09/15
Thanks for that Paul. Will
Thanks for that Paul. Will question it and more than likely I will get it look at proffessionally.
clueless
Posts: 58
Date Joined: 03/09/15
So, Thanks to everyone who
So, Thanks to everyone who threw in their advice on the above boats. They either sold before I had chance or didnt pass inspections so I am still looking.
Can anybody shed some light onto a BellCraft and a Savage Tasman. Any good points/bad points to the hulls in general?
There are two that are going cheaply...
Bellcraft $3000 (he does have another Add up saying $2850)
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/baldivis/motorboats-powerboats/15ft-bellcraft-/1091148158
Savage Tasman $3900
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/bassendean/motorboats-powerboats/tasman-savage-4-9-meter-/1093003891
The bell craft comes with a better engine, but the tasman (to my untrained eye) looks to be a better boat with the deeper V and bigger flare.... would that be an accurate assumption?
Also, would it be possible to repower the Tasman with a newer 60hp motor that is currently tiller steer, such as this...
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/bunbury-6230/boat-accessories-parts/perfect-condition-60hp-mariner-2-stroke-motor/1091899554
Or can you not use a tiller steer and adapt it to forward controls easily?
Perry Home
Posts: 434
Date Joined: 07/10/10
BARON WITH HONDA 4 STROKE
Gday Clueless
Did you say what size rig you want? Found a Boat with 4 stroke outboard - cheap to run and service generally, quiet on the water and no fumes. Anyway check it
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/hamersley/motorboats-powerboats/baron-15-5ft-fibre-with-honda-50hp-four-stroke/1093420219
clueless
Posts: 58
Date Joined: 03/09/15
Thanks for that option
Thanks for that option Perry but she had gone by the time I could go for a visit.
clueless
Posts: 58
Date Joined: 03/09/15
The search continues
So have still be looking, I was looking at the really low priced fiber glass boats around the 4.5m mark but being new and not having much money on back up for the boat I am really not keen on the potential costs involved on a wet boat. Inspections cant predict if it will go in the near future...
I am going down south for work next week and have spotted two tinnys that look like decent cheap starter boats...
2004 stacer sea hawk
www.boatsales.com.au/boats-for-sale/private/used/SSE-AD-3670982/2004-STACER-42M-SEAHAWK-RUNABOUT
14ft Quintrex fishabout mkII
www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/yallingup/motorboats-powerboats/14ft-quintrex-fishabout-excellent-condition/1094480329
I like the stacer because the boat is newer so looks nicer, but it has the 30hp motor - may be a bit underpowered?
I like the quinny because it has a 2011 40hp merc - more power and newer that the stacer? I like the flared bow, is this for looks or will it serv a purpose of being a slightly drier boat.
What are the general opinion on both these boats, would one hull be better than the other or Would it be just a matter of visual preferance?
Would you all agree that the 40hp would be worth going for over the 30hp?
Vinesh87
Posts: 2751
Date Joined: 02/04/11
I feel that in the size of
I feel that in the size of 14ft you would be better to just go with a tiller steer, You dont need the windscreen and forward controls, you just lose space. Should sort your budget a bit better too !
Just my opinion. I have a 12ft with a 9.8hp on it and i really enjoy going out in it for squidding and crabbing and stuff!
clueless
Posts: 58
Date Joined: 03/09/15
Thanks for your opinion
Thanks for your opinion Vinesh, appreciate what you are trying to suggest about the room. I have been in a tiller steer tinny and as much fun as it was I found it to be a bit annoying after a while - always having to hold the throttle, not being able to see when the nose starts pointing up. I also had a weekend with a small centre console, we hired when on holiday (shown below)
I just had so much fun in this and found it more enjoyable to scoot around on that I would ideally like to get another remote steering with the throttle. (side note does anyone know what boat that may be? probably wont get it in australia...)
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
My 20c
Clueless, I personally like the quintrex for a first boat owner with the budget you have spoken of. It will allow you to explore boating and have a better understanding what to look for when you buy your second boat.
An ally is a good first boat, lighter to handle and will give you more options for putting it in and out of the water (vs a fibreglass hull).
The condition of the motor is going to be a huge factor for your purchase. If you get a dud, you will be up for $3-4k to repower the (30-40hp) outboard. Therefore, if the 40hp is in good nick, then that's a big plus.
For that quintrex the 40hp should be more power than you need for that size boat, which I think is a good thing. You won't have the 40hp Wide Open Throttle (WOT) too often and you will need to learn how to trim and throttle with respect to the seas you are travelling in. A 40hp at 3500RPM may use less fuel and travel faster than a 30hp at 4000RPM.
I would also suggest that you clock up quite a few hours before entertaining trips to Rottnest with your first boat. To make that trip safely, you should first understand you and your boat's limitations and have a good understanding of weather forecasts and the waters in which you will be travelling.
And remember every boat purchase comes with compromises.
clueless
Posts: 58
Date Joined: 03/09/15
Thanks very much! I have
Thanks very much! I have leaned more towards the tinny for all yhe reasons you mentioned. I am new to boating, dont have a full understanding of launching/retrieving and using the boats power and trim in different conditions. Plus my budget means I'm looking at cheap boats and i really dont want the possibility of glass repairs, i manage a team of welders so fixing a tinny wouldn't be a prob.
I was thinking the quintrex for the extra hp too, purely thinking of engine rpm and work load. I just thought i would post to see if i was thinking on the correct tracks. And also if someone might pop up and say stay away from either stacer/quintex hull due to certain issues or ride quality etc.
Would you say the choice is all down to engine condition as neither hull will be better than the other in boats this size?
Also, since i am looking into a tinny, i understand all trips to rotto are ruled out :-) a year or two crossing around the river, sound and mandurah will be good enough for now!!
BlueKiaser
Posts: 422
Date Joined: 22/04/15
Hulls and ride quality
I grew up doing plenty of fishing from the family 14ft savage (Ali, with a 20HP, later upgraded to a 25HP). We regularly fished 5+ Nautical miles offshore from various launch locations. We caught plenty of big quality fish in that boat. My current boat is a 22ft Ali with a 225HP.
About 90% of what I now use as a skipper, I learnt in that 14footer, so enjoy your first boat and what it teaches you.
Generally speaking, fibreglass hulls will give a better ride than an Ali, but in my opinion, nothing beats size of hull and power of motor for comfort. Then you can worry about the finer details. For example, my boat has very little deadrise in the stern, allowing me to do beach launches and retrievals, but it makes it more suspect in a big following sea. My point is, there are many things about a boats hull design that will affect it's ride and performance. Some boats will be better than others in certain conditions, but every boat will have compromises.
With your budget, if the boat you buy has a motor in good condition, a strong looking transom and the welds and hull look free of cracks, then you're going pretty good (get your head under the back bottom transom of the boat ... a common place for patch up work on small Ali's). Both of those Alis (the Stacer and the Quintrex) are going to ride well on a flat sea, and give a bumpy wet ride in a sloppy sea. If you still feel unsure, take them for a sea trial prior to purchase.
Also, prior to purchasing, I don't mean to state the obvious, but make sure you understand the boating safety equipment rules for wa. That is, if the boat has offshore safety equipment, make sure you know how to check if it's all operational and within it's expiry dates.
(http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/mediaFiles/marine/MAC_R_BoatingRulesAtAGlance.pdf)
BTW, with experience, enough fuel, the right weather and safety gear, you can still take a 14ft Ali to Rottnest.
clueless
Posts: 58
Date Joined: 03/09/15
Thanks
Thanks for your input. As a complete novice I will expect to learn a great amount in this first boat. So ali is the first choice to help when I may kiss the jetty a little too hard...its bound to happen I guess! I appreciate the fiberglass v ali argument of comfort, but as my budget is barely there as it stands I cant complain about that. I had arranged to go inspect both boat this coming weekend however both I have been told were sold today :( unlucky to have both go so quick!
I am aware of the safety equipment - reading through all my books.
I am going to see this qunny tomorrow, it seems the exact same shape as the fishabout but its 4.9m long.... it looks very long and narrow. I shall see. However the plus is it has a 2014 tohatsu engine with service history, so *should* be reliable however its a 50hp and I keep reading on forums a 50hp is too small for a 4.9m ali boat but that I dont know. I just have to inspect and wonder why it hasnt been sold yet its been advertised for 22weeks!! Maybe because its underpowered??
www.boatsales.com.au/boats-for-sale/dealer/used/OAG-AD-2133327/QUINTREX-49-FISH-MASTER
Ashen
Posts: 1042
Date Joined: 22/03/13
Do you have young kids?
Do you have young kids? Because the freeboard (sides) on that Quintrex look very low, so safety issue for young kids...
A fish in the hand is worth 10 in the water!
clueless
Posts: 58
Date Joined: 03/09/15
No I dont have any kids. From
No I dont have any kids. From another quintrex I have seen, from the top of the weel arch to the top of the side is about 500...
Ashen
Posts: 1042
Date Joined: 22/03/13
Another issue I see with
Another issue I see with that boat is that the motor leg seems to be incorrect for the transom. Can't really see clearly but the cavitation plate looks a few inches below the boat, which will provide unneccesary drag. However, I COULD BE WRONG with regards to the motor leg. My eyes are not what they used to be... haha
A fish in the hand is worth 10 in the water!
clueless
Posts: 58
Date Joined: 03/09/15
I had a quick look in on the
I had a quick look in on the way to work this morning. the cavitation plate seems to be in line with the bottom of the boat... I think it must be a bit of an optical illusion with the pictures taken. You have me questioning the hight of the freeboard now... they didnt have any other similar tinnys to check out the sideboard on those in comparison. I will have to pay closer attention at another boat yard.
With the freeboard height, is the concern for a wave to fill the boat?