Are you a builder/tradesman struggling or out of work?

A bit of information for Tradesmen out there who may be finding it a bit tough at the moment.

Are you aware that "our" Australian Government is actively seeking foreign workers to do YOUR job-STILL?

Linked here is the Skilled Occupation List, issued May 2016.
https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Work/Work/Skills-assessment-and-assessing-authorities/skilled-occupations-lists/SOL
On this list you will find
Electrician
Carpenter
Roof plumber
Fitter Turner
Brick layer
Cabinet maker
Shipwright
Tiler
Plasterer
Glazier
Panelbeater
Locksmith
Ships Officer
Ships Engineer
Registered Nurse
and many many more occupations.

How did I come across this?
Someone posted a link on Facebook to an Indian website showing it with hundreds of enquiries from people who will in all likelihood, do your job (and mine) for a pittance.
I thought it was a joke, until I searched it up on the Immigration and Border Protection website.
Perhaps you need to write to your local member (Melissa Price here
http://melissapricemp.com.au/Contact-Melissa) for anyone north of Perth


and ask why, and what they are going to do about this if anything?
Or are you just going to sit on your ass complaining, and do nothing?
Apathy will kill your job, and mine.
You have about a month to do something, to find out where your local member stands, and find out what they are actually going to do.
Just write who you are, what you do and your work situation and ask why foreigners are being sought to take your job.
Doesnt need to be War and Peace. 

 

For me personally, they keep trying to bring in the "Shipping Reform Legislation".

Failed in the Senate in December due to Senators who wouldnt play the game, so they simply removed the need to have ANY visa to work on an Oil and Gas vessel in Australia.
"changes from 14 December 2015 exclude people working on vessels involved in offshore resources activities from the requirement to hold a visa."

https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Work/Visa

 

The IMO minimum wage for a seafarer is $US614 a month, with 2.5 days per month of leave accrued.

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 Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...

 

 

The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.

Everyone's just winging it.

 


Auslobster's picture

Posts: 1901

Date Joined: 03/05/08

Race to the bottom...

Sun, 2016-05-29 05:12

 ...been doing regular shutdowns at KNR over the past four years and hourly rate plus conditions have been steadily driven down while more and more 457's turned up. On the last one they were taking the unpaid half hour lunch break out of our double time, day and night!

These people are great to work with, and good on 'em for chasing a better wicket for themselves and their families back home, but you have to believe the cost of living is much lower in the Philippines/Cambodia/etc, and big business is taking advantage of that at the expense of local workers.

Posts: 53

Date Joined: 19/08/11

Not limited to to tradespeople

Sun, 2016-05-29 07:45

Doctors, Lawyers, Accountants, IT workers, Marketers, Nurses and more are all being sold down the river by both sides of politics to serve the interests of the business lobby.

Been going on for a long time now.

This site does a good job of exposing the scam   http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2015/10/business-howls-at-threat-to-its-457-underclass/

 

 

Posts: 5738

Date Joined: 18/01/12

True

Sun, 2016-05-29 08:00

true, but the present situation for work hasnt.
There is a small, short opportunity to have your say before the Federal Election.

Those who stay silent, probably deserve the outcome from the election.

How to vote?
I dont even know how/who I will, except that it will most likely be independant Senators at least.

For all the ragtag bunch of Senators we have now, its shown me that the major parties just present puppets for election.

____________________________________________________________________________

 Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...

 

 

The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.

Everyone's just winging it.

 

chris raff's picture

Posts: 3257

Date Joined: 09/02/10

 How does your

Sun, 2016-05-29 09:57

 How does your employer continue to be competitive in the current global market without lowering overheads ie wages .. Is that something local workers are willing to negotiate on in order to keep their jobs or are the high wages sustainable ?

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Intelligence is like a four-wheel drive. It only allows you to get stuck in more remote places.”

Posts: 4561

Date Joined: 01/02/10

Are employers using the

Sun, 2016-05-29 10:02

Are employers using the tighter climate to screw their employees without feeling the pain themselves?

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Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?

sea-kem's picture

Posts: 14826

Date Joined: 30/11/09

 I guess you're not an

Sun, 2016-05-29 12:58

 I guess you're not an employer like me mate. This has been the toughest 6months I've ever had in business and I've been doing it since 1998. I have eaten into the capital I had built up over the last couple of years and bottom line is negative so am sailing very close to the wind. I have been honest and upfront with my guy and told him he had a few options if he wanted to keep his job , drop a day a week, pay cut or if not willing for any of those then loss of job. He quickly took the pay cut when he realised there's not a hell of a lot of work out there in our trade. My main client has laid of I reckon 70% of their workforce being an oil and gas company. I don't draw any wages and live on my wife's income thankfully. 

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Love the West!

Posts: 4561

Date Joined: 01/02/10

 Specialist industry, not

Sun, 2016-05-29 13:43

 Specialist industry, not much competition, not too many new employees with the required skill set.

 

 

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Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?

Posts: 140

Date Joined: 10/02/11

I'm a ceiling fixer We have

Sun, 2016-05-29 10:31

I'm a ceiling fixer

 

We have had asians in our industry for a long time now. I don't really have a problem with them as my regular clients still prefer to pay the extra for guaranteed quality.

However in the last 6 months on the commercial side i have noticed the builders just not being able to say no to 20-30% cheaper quotes, and on large scale jobs that is alot of coin.

The only way to compete is to employ them for half the wage I could pay an aussie for and lower my quality standards, which I am not willing to do.

I've had builders use them and whinge and say they would never use them again, yet on the next job they just can't say no once they see the dollar signs.

I actually have one working for me which is an australian citizen, been here for 10 years, however his work, ethic, presentation, communication is top notch so I pay him the same wage I pay all my other workers (before anyone claims I'm judging un fairly)

Is definitely interesting times for us.

 

Posts: 790

Date Joined: 25/05/12

 Definitely.....and there is

Sun, 2016-05-29 12:34

 Definitely.....and there is a skills shortage too.....which makes it harder to employ good workers who aren't on the crack and on there iPhones all day expecting $45 an hour for half arsework. Bit of a double edge sword 

Paul_86's picture

Posts: 1449

Date Joined: 27/03/09

 I'm a plumber on larger

Sun, 2016-05-29 13:29

 I'm a plumber on larger commercial jobs in Perth and the last job I was on the builder went for the cheaper foreign ceiling fixers, they got half way through the job and kicked them off site, they were useless, dangerous and slow. Only one of them could speak any English which is a huge safety hazard on a construction site. Ended up costing the builder a lot more money coz they new ceiling fixer crew had to go through and fix all the stuff ups. 

On another job the foreign workers who also couldn't read or speak English over loaded a Preston deck and almost had it fall to the ground. 

You constanty see them breaking the rules on site, standing on buckets, seen 2 guys working off the same ladder at the same time, smoking where ever they want. 

It's probably just a coincidence, but when they are around it seems a few certain tools go missing, stanly knifes and tape measures.

rob90's picture

Posts: 1522

Date Joined: 06/02/13

 We're pretty busy still,

Sun, 2016-05-29 11:31

 We're pretty busy still, (cabinet maker) but next year looks pretty bleak as our usual builders are not pouring any slabs coz times are tight and people aren't spending coin willy nilly as they were say 3 years ago, we lost a regular builder late last year as he was searching for every spare dollar he could, funny really because when we were doing his work and times were good he kept saying how we were so good and he doesn't have to worry when we have the job and it always turns out good but when times got tight he was happy to go for the cheaper product which im guessing wasnt the best product. Im a bit pissed really because i was hoping to start out on my own (installing) or take a change altogether this year, but with things the way they are it looks a bit too unsafe and risky. So i hope that things dont get too much worse. 

My one hate is when i go to a site and there are foreign tradies, usually tilers and they cant speak english. The one thing if they wanna work onsite here is they need to speak english properly. Its unsafe for them and everyone around them. We gotta get a white card and do all this training in safe work practise but they can get dropped off at a site with a bucket of tools and usually a smoke in their mouth not know (or pretend to not know) english and put every one in danger. But good on them tho they work like trojans and with out them our small housing industry would be pretty much rooted, and not as affordable for the first homebuyer.

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 Hi my name is rob............. and I'm a........... fishaholic

Posts: 790

Date Joined: 25/05/12

 That's right Rob and Paul,

Tue, 2016-05-31 07:37

 That's right Rob and Paul,  I'm happy for people coming here for a better life but..there has to be standards to come here and work.

Especially English  as it is dangerouse to have people on site who don't know the rules or what's going, it's also frustrating trying to comunicate with someone who barely speaks English to resolve site problems. 

Saulty2's picture

Posts: 643

Date Joined: 28/05/10

classic.

Sun, 2016-05-29 12:04

dont think we can insulate ourselves from the rest of the world ,itd be great to  import cheap steel ,clothing , online because its cheap,and export at record prices but sadly doesnt work that way,

 most local  businesses have their lifes savings on the line,and unless one wins the contract then he may need to shut the door , sometimes businesses takes on work at cost so as to retain his employees and also in the hope that the next one will pay dividends.but the overall trend for employees & and employers is downwards.   

Posts: 5981

Date Joined: 17/06/10

Ok, I'm an old baby boomer but.

Sun, 2016-05-29 14:48

This country used to have a lot of varied industries, we made TVs, radios, cars (foreign owned admittedly) shoes shirts and other odds and sods.

There was a tariff that protected these manufactures from the cheaper made products produce by countries which had a cheaper labour content in the price.

Over a relatively short period Australia dropped the tariff on imported goods and various products became quite a bit cheaper to the consumer, yeah yippee the consumers cried.

Australian companies could not compete on price with these imports so, the Australian made companies either folded up or took their plant over seas to make us of this source of cheap foreign labour.

Suddenly a lot of Australian companies stopped making goods, who cares, we can by the goods cheaper. However a lot of people lost their jobs, I don't give a rats I'm all right jack.

Well one day you are on the redundant cue just like all the good other people, then people stopped buy stuff, this further hurt the Australian economy bugger what are we going to do!

I know we will let foreign conglomerates buy our iron ore gas etc at very low cost made available by dirt cheap royalty charges to get these companies to operate in Australia. The boom started (may be 20 years back) Everyone had pockets full of money to play with yippee again.

Then about 5 years ago it all started to slow down and last year it ground to a halt. The local businesses where charging everyone like a wounded bull shopping centre rents where sky high, retailers charges exorbitant prices to cover the higher rent employers had to pay high wages to get workers. In the after light of the boom all the prices have remained very high, they haven't come down to reality.

The money it got from royalties has been blown on unnecessary bling (stadium Elizabeth key etc)not info structure to make life better for the states citizens.

Now if the American carpet bagger gets into power and carries out all the changes he says he is going to implement watch the world turn upside down, how is he going to create jobs you may well ask, easy bring back tariffs to protect American manufactures from cheap overseas consumer goods.

And IMO if we want hirer employment that is what Australia and a lot of other countries need to get back to. Make your own country better and sod the rest.

Rant over

Posts: 5738

Date Joined: 18/01/12

Understand all of the above

Mon, 2016-05-30 06:56

Understand all of the above comments,especially the employer thing.

But in the O&G side of things, the cost to produce has very little to do with what we pay for it.

Certainly now oil prices are below what some sectors cost to produce.

But also, a company such as Chevron which pays little or no tax in Aus-the only benefit Aus really gets is us spending here. 

There is no country which is socially or geographically similar to us, who has so completely sold out their shipping sector.

US has the Jones Act-Austal or Incat cannot build ships there without engaging a US company partner.

Coastal shipping is all US.

UK gave tax incentives and their Registry is healthy.

Indonesia has cabotage

Australia-does not have a SINGLE oil tanker on its registry.

Every litre of our fuel whether from the remaining local refineries or Singapore, is carted on Flag of Convenience tankers if not trucked.

I too, have worked with Philipino tradies many of whom are excellent workers.

It is when they are paid below Aus wages, live in a shed and do not have to support a family HERE that I am not happy.

____________________________________________________________________________

 Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...

 

 

The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.

Everyone's just winging it.

 

Posts: 13

Date Joined: 23/05/13

It must change for our kids sake.

Mon, 2016-05-30 12:12

Being a victim of 457`s and being on the beach since Jan. I have sent the email below to federal candidates in my electorate.
Please all do the same and Australia great again.(to quote a current popular phrase from the U.S.A.)

With the upcoming federal elections I would like to know your stance on improving employment in Australia as this will help me decide on how I cast my vote.

If you go to the web sight below from a popular West Australian fishing forum you will see the concerns of average working Australians.

https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Work/Work/Skills-assessment-and-assessing-authorities/skilled-occupations-lists/SOL

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Posts: 101

Date Joined: 07/01/15

Skilled Occupations

Mon, 2016-05-30 19:18

A mate of mine works in the public service and had said the last three years the state of WAs economy had contracted 8, 8 and 7 or so % sans exports. Having a few mates lose their jobs and struggle to find alternate work, as well as a mate who runs his own business it appears this side of the boom seems a sharp fall from grace.

Having a look at the skilled occupations list is interesting, a mate of mine is a Metalurgist and got made redundant, can't get another job now working in a cafe, my better half is a nurse and the state government is trying to cull its workforce. So it's interesting those occupations alone are on there.

The increase use of the 457 skilled migration has done exactly as the critics said, and as what has happened in other countries eg UK. By and large it is used to lower wages and conditions as well as keep the industry ticking over.

There will always be a need for skilled migration along with other migration but the skills sets being transient. The long term strategic of having industries in place such as shipping, ship building, heavy engineering industry etc faces large challenges in a country like ours Is difficult given Diametric polar opposites in the 2 major parties with their some of their policies means a tariff or cabotage for an industry may only last the term of the incumbent government.  

I feel sorry for the small businesses trying to compete eg the trade vs someone for minimum wage. Everyone looks for the spare dollars my suggestion would be to support local businesses, no eBay/online shopping but also make a more moral/ethic decision when also supporting those businesses. Do you go through self service checkouts, where is the food produced, where is it made etc

We might save dollars now, but cumulatively and progressively less people working more people heading towards the queue at Centrelink if they can't find work

 

Posts: 515

Date Joined: 23/04/11

I pay my sparkies

Tue, 2016-05-31 08:53

I pay my sparkies $40-$45/hour, and all penalties. I have a great retention rate, and most are pretty happy.

Recently, Ive had quite a few blokes coming off the NW shelf gas projects looking for work with us.

Every one of them told me to get fucked, they wouldnt work for anything less than $65.

At $65, I would be making a loss..... No wonder employers are looking at 457's.

 

 

Jackfrost80's picture

Posts: 8016

Date Joined: 07/05/12

They might soon struggle to

Tue, 2016-05-31 09:33

They might soon struggle to be able to pay off their McMansion mortgages, service the interest on their investment properties and make the payments on their 7m boat, landcruiser and whatever SUV the Mrs drives and come crawling back.

Great time to have the security of a pretty well paid local govt position with all the OT I want and the Mrs just gone full time with a promotion in the State govt...

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Honourary Pies member for a while

rob90's picture

Posts: 1522

Date Joined: 06/02/13

 True. I've seen some

Tue, 2016-05-31 12:14

 True. I've seen some unemployment is due to greed, because they are over qualified to sweep a floor or shovel sand they wont. Im pretty sure if anyone went to a few building sites and said i want to labour for you. Most trades will say here is $30 an hour you start at 7 and finish at 3. If you do the rite there is a steady income that will open doors or pay bills till you find your million dollars an hour. I bust my ringer out to cover the morgage and have a few toys. Some guys were blowing coin up the wall when it was good and now crying poor, i find it quite insulting really.

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 Hi my name is rob............. and I'm a........... fishaholic

grantarctic1's picture

Posts: 2546

Date Joined: 03/03/11

This is why

Tue, 2016-05-31 14:46

This is why many employers in perth will not hire anyone from gas, oil and mining backgrounds.
I wont even let them in the door, not only do they want the big dollars they get while away, as soon as another job is available they take of leaving you to fill the gaps again.
Its a ghost town around my factory at the moment and I have had to let workers go to keep the doors open. Many of my friends have gone into liquidation and I cant see it getting any better for a while yet.
Most people around here are just happy to have a job that pays enough to get the bills sorted at the moment, let alone demand top dollar for their skills .

Jackfrost80's picture

Posts: 8016

Date Joined: 07/05/12

I've had guys come to job

Tue, 2016-05-31 15:00

I've had guys come to job interviews and actually tell me that they are looking for something as a stop gap and yeah we are pretty much the same in regard to hiring and really question anyone with a similar background as to why they want the job and what their future intentions are. I'd rather have the role vacant than be rehiring and retraining someone in 2 months time.

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Honourary Pies member for a while

Posts: 5981

Date Joined: 17/06/10

A reality check required I think

Tue, 2016-05-31 15:40

Having read some of the above posts which outline how some people who are unemployed have come in for job interviews then told the prospective employer to show the job position because it doesn't pay what they want is their prerogative, however. However, myself I would rather have some income than no income.

I can't relate to the commercial world as most of my working life was with the defence force so exposure to the many ways of the construction industry are unknown to me.

The immediate past boom in the construction industry up north has often been described as "a once in a generational boom" with no more large projects forecast (going on what's in the paper) I think some people may be looking for an event that is not going to happen in the fore see able future. And I feel sorry for those people to some extent, however I think facts must be faced and they need to adjust to a much lower income and move on and face the new challenges that come with such things.

Posts: 334

Date Joined: 02/09/14

reality check

Tue, 2016-05-31 15:56

agree 100%, I worked for Forge Group as Logistics & Warehouse Manager, for a very decent wage, they went into Liquidation in Feb 2014. I lost a shit load of money. Had to sell my landcruiser and my 1 year old 6.9mtr boat.
Now working for 2/3rds of the wage, just learnt to pull in the spending, go for a cheaper second hand boat and adjust to a tighter budget. Guess what, life still goes on, I still go fishing and I have a steady income

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Wez0062

Posts: 5738

Date Joined: 18/01/12

 So, having read all of the

Wed, 2016-06-01 20:37

 So, having read all of the comments does anyone thing it's a good idea bringing 457's in like this?

____________________________________________________________________________

 Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...

 

 

The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.

Everyone's just winging it.

 

Posts: 210

Date Joined: 12/11/12

457

Thu, 2016-06-02 06:32

 NO   as a welder  they are a pest  .....should have never been allowed in   were are the young ozzy apprentices . is that the thing off the past .... look what happen sipam tryed to bring in there blokes to do that inpex pipeline  an the shit that went on on that job .. you will not believe  this is our country WE HAVE TO PROTECT IT just like our grandfathers did ,  once its gone its gone  just like the jobs .   I worked away from my family to get ahead  an I am not asking for bigs bucks home just a goods days pay for good days work   

rob90's picture

Posts: 1522

Date Joined: 06/02/13

 Aussie apprentices are too

Thu, 2016-06-02 07:46

 Aussie apprentices are too busy facebooking and sucking bongs thats the problem. Most of them need a boot to the arse, and good ones need to be held onto

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 Hi my name is rob............. and I'm a........... fishaholic

sea-kem's picture

Posts: 14826

Date Joined: 30/11/09

 

Thu, 2016-06-02 07:49

 

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Love the West!

Posts: 210

Date Joined: 12/11/12

457

Thu, 2016-06-02 09:01

 I agree on that .....

Posts: 5981

Date Joined: 17/06/10

Then forget this political correct stuff

Thu, 2016-06-02 13:19

Give them a kick is the backside, when I did my apprenticeship whoa betided me if I didn't look up, listen up and shut up. A clip around the ears was not long in coming with not apologies from the apprentice master and you most certainly didn't complain to anyone least you copped another one from them.

I have also seen one on one counselling produce a dramatic improvement in attitude and work out put in the services.

Posts: 1522

Date Joined: 09/03/13

457

Thu, 2016-06-02 07:18

I've spent many years of my life too working around the world on different drilling platforms so I guess I'm a hypocrite.

But...ultimately this is just sending Aus $ overseas making Australia poorer paycheck by paycheck.

Posts: 210

Date Joined: 12/11/12

457

Thu, 2016-06-02 07:39

 why an how this government is letting it happen  I feel for my little boys they want to be welders aswell

Doc's picture

Posts: 691

Date Joined: 29/05/16

I get a bit of work when I

Thu, 2016-06-02 10:59

I get a bit of work when I need it, was over at Gladstone working on the gas plant there a couple of years back and the 457 guys were like a plague. I'm a heavy duty diesel fitter, and found myself constantly fixing up the stuff ups by these guys.