Capsized cat

Does anyone know what the story is behind the cat that capsized half way to Rotto on weekend? It's on Fremantle Sea Rescue Face Book page.

 

 

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Iceman's picture

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Waiting to find out

Mon, 2013-02-04 16:26

Not sure of the details but heard Water Police put a call out to the vessel about 2.50pm.

All I know is that there were 8 people onboard. As you can see conditions were not an issue.

This is the third cat in a row that has capsized.

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carnarvonite's picture

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+1

Thu, 2013-02-07 07:29

Add another one to your tally. We had one go over in good conditions here in Carnarvon 5 months back and wasn't travelling in a following sea.

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Capsized Cat

Fri, 2013-02-08 10:57

Guys, I am sure this post will come across as biased, but let me assure it is not meant to be at all.

First and foremost I love fishing, boats and the water, in that order (oh and my wife and kids...) All boats, old, new classic and some well are just ugly, but they offer everyone an outlet and a passion.

you guys are all passionate, great.

It is both incredibly hard and incredibly easy to capsize a Cat. Its that simple.

A post previous said its all about the driving and that is the first an only truth.

If a Cat is trimmed Ok, balanced with fuel, water, stores and people and driven in any (ANY) sea correctly it will bring everyone home safe and sound, everytime without fail.

Cats do not turn like mono-hulls, it is a Cars and bikes thing, mono-hulls are bikes, Cats are cars. If you throw a car into a high speed turn and the arse end does not slide around but grips it rolls yes? Mono-hulls fall to one side of their central line and bank like a bike does, however like a bike if it grips it throws. We are all aware of that.

If you happen to trim a Cat out of sync by a fair margin, one engine up and one down and use a fair amount of thrust, a short hulled cat (light in weight and less surface area to react. Will hop or shift violently to one side, add more thrust and it will keep going, add weight shift due to shock/fear, poor placement or balance selection of passengers and you are on one hull and going over, just add a little water to touch her up under hull and tip she does.

Cats are not infallible, have never said that. However, if the skipper understands his boat, it trim, its power and the sea style it likes to drive at in different conditions (speeds), everyone on board will comment on what a great boat, soft ride and confidence inspiring trip home in what looked ugly sea that it was. Had it plenty over 14 years.

Apart from that, it is the same confidence that gets some unstuck. Combinations of speed, booze and bravado will also cause some to leave little reaction time and get out of sorts, so it is the very confidence the boat inspires in these cases that cause the drama. It is all about the skipper and the way he drives and lays out his boat, I am sure this is true of all trailerable boats in some fashion.

Those pictures are not the same, the first boat looks like a motor sailer or maybe an imported cat, very square deadrise at bow and the engines way to close to centre like sail drives or Zues, can't be sure from the pictures, but it looks too short and fat to be a traditional powered Cat. The other picture below Paul thought was a LeisureCat is not, I can tell from the Bowsprit and the fact that no-one has called me to tell me what happened as they usually do.

I would like to finish by extending an invitation to anyone of you guys to call me and book a sea trial on any of my boats you like on a day when the wind is in and you wouldn't go out. Or if your just curious, because driving one and being in one when it matters will give you a far greater edge to discuss the boats than simply passing on what you heard or have been told. I personally do not take offence, I rather just let the boat speak for itself, because in this case it can't, then everyone is informed. My number is on my website, look forward to hearing from you.

 

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Capsized Cat

Fri, 2013-02-08 10:57

Guys, I am sure this post will come across as biased, but let me assure it is not meant to be at all.

First and foremost I love fishing, boats and the water, in that order (oh and my wife and kids...) All boats, old, new classic and some well are just ugly, but they offer everyone an outlet and a passion.

you guys are all passionate, great.

It is both incredibly hard and incredibly easy to capsize a Cat. Its that simple.

A post previous said its all about the driving and that is the first an only truth.

If a Cat is trimmed Ok, balanced with fuel, water, stores and people and driven in any (ANY) sea correctly it will bring everyone home safe and sound, everytime without fail.

Cats do not turn like mono-hulls, it is a Cars and bikes thing, mono-hulls are bikes, Cats are cars. If you throw a car into a high speed turn and the arse end does not slide around but grips it rolls yes? Mono-hulls fall to one side of their central line and bank like a bike does, however like a bike if it grips it throws. We are all aware of that.

If you happen to trim a Cat out of sync by a fair margin, one engine up and one down and use a fair amount of thrust, a short hulled cat (light in weight and less surface area to react. Will hop or shift violently to one side, add more thrust and it will keep going, add weight shift due to shock/fear, poor placement or balance selection of passengers and you are on one hull and going over, just add a little water to touch her up under hull and tip she does.

Cats are not infallible, have never said that. However, if the skipper understands his boat, it trim, its power and the sea style it likes to drive at in different conditions (speeds), everyone on board will comment on what a great boat, soft ride and confidence inspiring trip home in what looked ugly sea that it was. Had it plenty over 14 years.

Apart from that, it is the same confidence that gets some unstuck. Combinations of speed, booze and bravado will also cause some to leave little reaction time and get out of sorts, so it is the very confidence the boat inspires in these cases that cause the drama. It is all about the skipper and the way he drives and lays out his boat, I am sure this is true of all trailerable boats in some fashion.

Those pictures are not the same, the first boat looks like a motor sailer or maybe an imported cat, very square deadrise at bow and the engines way to close to centre like sail drives or Zues, can't be sure from the pictures, but it looks too short and fat to be a traditional powered Cat. The other picture below Paul thought was a LeisureCat is not, I can tell from the Bowsprit and the fact that no-one has called me to tell me what happened as they usually do.

I would like to finish by extending an invitation to anyone of you guys to call me and book a sea trial on any of my boats you like on a day when the wind is in and you wouldn't go out. Or if your just curious, because driving one and being in one when it matters will give you a far greater edge to discuss the boats than simply passing on what you heard or have been told. I personally do not take offence, I rather just let the boat speak for itself, because in this case it can't, then everyone is informed. My number is on my website, look forward to hearing from you.

 

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carnarvonite's picture

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Rosco

Fri, 2013-02-08 11:18

Tell all that to Rosco who had his 7 metre cat go over in 1 metres seas on the way to the islands. Inexperience isn't a factor as he''d had cats for many years and has spent nearly all of his adult life at sea on professional boats. His two crewies were tossed in to the drink and he was trapped under the bimmie underwater. The mono hull boat travelling with them had no problems at all in the same conditions.

To add to that, while attending to Rosco we got notification that another cat had been snotterd while going through the Gap in the islands and was in deep shirt, with Rosco's consent, because another boat was standing by and a crab boat was coming to tow his boat in, we left.

 

The other 6 metre ali cat had gone out through the top of the wave and dunked both engines on re entry, one bloke was preety well smashed up with 6 broken ribs and his mate had a large gash to his head. Tossing up which way to tow their boat home and knowing what the conditions on the inside of the islands was going to turn to , we decided to head back through the gap instead of heading north and having the sea on the starboard bow for the run home. Took us nearly 3 hours due to the amount of discomfort our passengers were in.

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lol that doesnt suprise me

Sun, 2013-02-10 06:15

lol that doesnt suprise me about rosco

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who or what are your

Sun, 2013-02-10 15:06

who or what are your cats-company name?

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Kevin is from Leisure Cat.

Sun, 2013-02-10 15:15

Kevin is from Leisure Cat.

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Seafari's picture

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Thanks Iceman. I was trying

Mon, 2013-02-04 16:30

Thanks Iceman. I was trying to determine what make cat it was but a bit hard to tell from the pics. Maybe someone with more knowledge than me can pick it.

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that,s a very odd hull shape

Mon, 2013-02-04 17:21

 to square on the bow, looks like it coud be a sail powered type hull , the props sticking in the air are odd aswell as there way to highand in the wrong spot 

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Little leisurecat maybe

Wed, 2013-02-06 17:19

 

Cant be sure but looks very new. 8 people aboard, one was trapped in the hull and resued later
 
 
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cant be sure but it does look

Thu, 2013-02-07 08:16

cant be sure but it does look like the 6 metre leisure cat

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Capsized Cat

Fri, 2013-02-08 10:25

Paul,

Just to let you know and others, it is not a 6m LeisureCat and even saying so before checking what it is on a site like this is harmful in the extreme, you only have to read a few of the posts to see that.

The 6m Brumby does not have a fixed GRP bowsprit, it is a bolted on metal (stainless ) or anodized steel fitting. The 6m Islander has a large thick GRP moulded Bowsprit. This is neither boat and as it is upside down, I am not going to speculate, best to ring the Freo Rescue boys and ask.

I will reply in general to the comments made regarding Cats in general and capsizing.

Tight lines and great fishing.

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Got nothing against your

Fri, 2013-02-08 13:51

Got nothing against your boats Kev you know that I have been in many of your cats, they are one of the better hulls out there for their size, its all about the skipper.

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Jeez .  There are a few of

Wed, 2013-02-06 17:59

Jeez .  There are a few of these going belly up.  Inherently unstable??

Heard a few people say they they wouldn't consider one.  I now see why.

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Bizarre , conditions are mint

Wed, 2013-02-06 18:15

Bizarre , conditions are mint .. 8 people on board may have been the issue , I'll stick to a single hull I think..

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cat hulls should be...

Wed, 2013-02-06 22:24

cat hulls are usually a more stable platform when at rest and in light to medium seas there is something not quite right when in the sea state like that pictured a cat goes hull up.

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problem with cats is the skippers

Thu, 2013-02-07 07:06

most are used to driving mono hulls ,you cannot drive a cat like a mono  in a following sea in a mono you can just turn back up and over the wave as its coming under you in a cat you cant you have to ride the wave until its parralel with your transome and back of a bit and let it roll under you or do what i do and just go faster than the wave then you dont have a problem with waves pushing you plus cats like going fast as that is when they get the air pocket under them to smooth the ride out ,if im travelling under 20 knots in mine i get pushed all over the place and get a lot of banging trough the hull ,but if i sit on 25/30 knots you get a very smooth ride in just about any conditons ,i have had mine out in 3.5 m swell blowing 25 knots and still been able to sit on 25 knots comfortably 

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@scottnofish

Thu, 2013-02-07 15:20

I can totally relate to your comments. I hated my first cat!! I had been out on other cats and loved them but had never skippered one until I bought a small 5m centre console and then shat myself. I met a bloke who owned the same boat and in conversation I admitted that I hated the bloody thing. He gave me a few tips and then said, drive it fast (but safe). The boat really only came into it's own when you applied a generous amount of throttleand figured out the trim. Once I got that sorted I was a happy chappy and owned a few cats, the last being a 7m LC. I've gone back to mono for one reason only, the family likes weekends at Rotto and a cat at anchor is a pain in the ass!! The slapping under the hull drove me mad and very limited cabin space compared to similar size mono's. For outright fishing, give me a cat any day!

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I agree totall, but I dont

Thu, 2013-02-07 19:52

I agree totall, but I dont think it's really limited to cats... When I first got my boat (mono) it took a lot of getting used to.  It was bigger and beamier than what I was used to, it handled very differently, and because it was bigger I was driving it out in seas I just wasnt used to.  Then came working out how to trim it properly.  My first tactic was just slow and steady - then I realised if I trimmed the sh*t out of it I could cruise over sloppy swell ;)

All comments here aside, I think if I could afford a 25+ft fishing boat I'd be going for a cat.

 

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 not good to see. hope all

Thu, 2013-02-07 10:56

 not good to see. hope all were ok.

as mentioned they can be unstable if your not used to them. its like jumping from a car to a semi, they both handle differently

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 i might be a bit biased

Thu, 2013-02-07 14:41

 i might be a bit biased having fished in my dads sharkcat for ova 25 years iv got a mono hull and carnt bag it love it but ive never felt safer than in my dads sharkcat ive seen plenty of mono hulls capsized by people who have no idea wat their doing same goes for a cat funny how the sea rescue boat is a sharkcat ? 

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With 8 people on board

Thu, 2013-02-07 15:21

With 8 people on board weight distribution would have been critical. All you need is an inexperienced skipper flogging the boat because the conditions looked good and things can go pear shaped pretty quick. If the cat dug in on one hull and the skipper panicked then I can only think that all sorts of things can go wrong with a steering wheel and throttles in the wrong hands. Mono's are a lot more forgiving for the inexperienced skipper.

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Read this before

Thu, 2013-02-07 16:13

and that is what I thought might have happened. Something might have causes the bunch to all go to one side, spotting a dolphin, whale etc. Dug in one hull, skipper panicked and turned towards the dug in side and flip she goes.

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 There's a business angle

Thu, 2013-02-07 15:25

 There's a business angle here for someone to train people to drive the things properly.

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SHHHHHHHHHH !!!

Thu, 2013-02-07 16:47

 Dont yell it to loud. The govt. will find a way to bring in boat licences for different size / class of motors, like you drivers licence.  and charge us annually for it.

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 Doh! I know those idots come

Thu, 2013-02-07 17:16

 Doh! I know those idots come on here looking for any ideas to tax the shit out of us lol.

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Nothing wrong with cats -

Thu, 2013-02-07 19:46

Nothing wrong with cats - rescue services have been using them around the country for years.

The same circumstances could have caused the same result in a mono.

One of the most popular characteristics of cats are their stability.

More likely driver error.

Cats crossing a bar...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtlsN8RPTKk

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 My point exactly Red Dog.

Thu, 2013-02-07 20:06

 My point exactly Red Dog. They are different to handle than a conventional boat so  extra training would be a bonus. Like these rich knob heads who buy 50 footers and drive them onto reefs. Skippers ticket doesn't gives a good overview but a basic nav course should be mandatory. Even for small boat owners. But as on the roads and the sea there will always be clowns.

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Cats vs Naiads

Thu, 2013-02-07 20:22

Spent many hour in cats and if I had a choice between one and a Naiad , it wouldn't be a cat. Seen too many tip over for no reason and as an all round boat the Naiad shits all over them. 

Bunbury and Dunsborough are the only rescue groups outside to Fremantle in WA that has a cat if my info is correct, the rest have either Air riders or Naiads.  Plus there is a huge trend away from them over east as well, the main reason there was so many over there is that they were heavily sibsidised by the makers to get their product in the public eye and now that something better has arrived they are upgrading to the Naiads.

When we formed a committee to research getting our new boat 18 months back not one of the 4 members [all very experienced boaters] mentioned a cat. We considered ex cray boats, Naiads, Air riders, a boat produced in Gero and finally decided on a 10 metre Naiad after taking one for a ride and compairing it to Exmouths 10 metre Air rider, a decision that has proved to be very welcomed by our members who have performed many rescues in trying and tricky situations with flying colours.

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 Saw one going through it's

Thu, 2013-02-07 20:38

 Saw one going through it's paces on the river the other week John, very impressive.

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Port Denison

Fri, 2013-02-08 11:02

Port Denison sea rescue still use one as well, i think it is a Westcat.

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 Dunsborough has had an Air

Fri, 2013-02-08 11:55

 Dunsborough has had an Air rider for about two years now.

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Albany

Thu, 2013-02-07 21:00

Heard that the boys down at Albany have shot of their 8.5 Naiad some 30 feet in the air after launching off a big swell, I certainly wouldn''t want to try that in a cat.

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Perhaps I should have

Thu, 2013-02-07 21:16

Perhaps I should have clarified my statement that cats were popular with the rescue services BEFORE the Naiads came along as they are a fairly new concept in boating.

No doubt the Naiads are a class act and if my powerball came up there'd be one in the drive.

The local police boat and rescue boat here get me drooling.

I love RIB's - fast, stable and a soft ride.

I just reckon cats cop a lot of flack that they don't deserve and is unfounded.

Horses for courses. Certainly rigid inflatables don't suit everyone's needs.

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HUH?

Fri, 2013-02-08 22:10

"I love RIBS's.......stable and a soft ride"

NOT the 8.5m Kirby Niad I took out, (with Mr Kirby himself).

It behaved and performed exactly like what it was - a ALUMINIUM HULL, with pontoons attached for "buoyancy and stability".

I believe there's a very good reason they fit them up with $5000.00 seats...... LOL. 

I'd had a 8m Leisurecat for over 10 years and it was time for a new boat.

With all the positive stuff I was hearing about Niads, I thought they would be worth looking at closely, so I called Rob Kirby, who generously offered to take me out on what turned out to be a pretty sloppy day in Cockburn Sound. Rob's a nice bloke, generous with his time and knowledgable and passionate about his product.

My ONLY motiviation was getting the "best" boat at around 8m that I could buy, and was actually hoping that the stuff I was hearing about the Niads was true!

After an hour or so behind the wheel of a 8.5m, I thanked Rob very much for taking the time and trouble to take me out - AND ordered a new Leisurecat.

I respect everyone's right to their opinions as expressed, but, based on that hour or so out with the man himself, I REALLY couldn't see what all the hype was about - sure they are not your "average" ali boat, and they ARE fast, BUT, I found that 8.5m lacking on each of the (other) characteristics that people were claiming to be their strengths (and relative to the Leisurecat).

I can't comment on some of the statements made, such as the popularity, or otherwise, of Cats on the east coast, etc, etc, and my days of fucking around in big swells 'getting air' are well and truely behind me, but, I am VERY confident that as an "allround boat" my 8.0m Leisurecat "shits all over" that 8.5m Naid (as tested).

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Well Said Septimus

Sat, 2013-02-09 08:46

  If people spent some time in cat's and understood their characteristics, there would be less biased posters on this site ( especially ) up north. Everyone is entitled to their opinions,

There doesn’t seen to be anywhere near as much hype on this site when a mono goes under, whether it be driver error or not.

Cheers Ozzy

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 As I mentioned above Ozzy I

Sat, 2013-02-09 09:31

 As I mentioned above Ozzy I believe it's all about operator training and being a different design to the regular mono hull I reckon it should be mandatory as with the bigger boats that cashed up Johnny's buy. Like you say they have their own characteristics.

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Have been out in a 8m cat a

Sat, 2013-02-09 09:55

Have been out in a 8m cat a few times on a charter and a mate of mine also has one (same size/model).  We get some pretty average conditions and big swells on the west coast of Eyre Pen here in SA and I have never felt unsafe at any time.  This last xmas period we even inadvertantly filled the right sponson with a huge amount of water when one of the hoses for the kill tank came off where it drains out of the hull and the hull filled.  This was in a reasonable swell and with the right hull full we headed in at our normal speed with no problems (with the three passengers on the left side).  In fact once back in the bay it rode through the short 1m chop even better due to the extra weight.  Two days later we were back out wide after draining the hull and blocking the hole with silicone with no probs.

As above cats love to be driven hard but its vital they are trimmed correctly just like any other boat.  I've read the stories about cats supposedly flipping in calm seas etc and from my experience that just doesn't sound right.  Something else must have been wrong or not done correctly.

Only thing I have against cats are they are a complete pain to mount a transducer on the rear but it can be done

other than that give me a cat anyday.

 

Cheers

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Cat Hulls

Sat, 2013-02-09 10:59

I've got a mate who is a Licensed Skipper with Marine Rescue in the Shoalhaven , he owns a little 5 mtr Marlin Broadbill and I have been out in that thing in some atrocious conditions that 8 mtr boat owners would have been questioning what they were doing out there , knowing the boat and it's capabilities is half the secret , the other half is knowing your own limitations . Flogging back from the Banks to Greenwell Point in 2 mtrs of ground swell and  2 mtrs of sea and 30knts of breeze , the only time it got scary was when we slowed down LOL , that little bugger just jumped from wave to wave with no fuss , we did get a bit wet though.....

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Some cool footage of the ol'

Sat, 2013-02-09 14:07

Some cool footage of the ol' shark cats in action...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CtedRYVF9U

 

Yes I own a cat - always feel safe. 

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its all about the skipper

Sun, 2013-02-10 08:48

as said before , there is a reason they are so popular on the south coast.

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 love that video. balls of

Sun, 2013-02-10 14:28

 love that video. balls of steel them guys doing the rescue

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 they didnt hook onto a

Sun, 2013-02-10 06:57

 they didnt hook onto a marlin by chance did they

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great bit of video Red Dog

Sun, 2013-02-10 17:21

yep there is no reason to doubt the sea keeping ability of those cats in that video as i said in an earler post for a cat to go hull up in the depicted conditions there is something not right and not odvious in the picture. rescue group should be able to tell what happened to bring about that sad state of affairs

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Government sues over 'dud'

Sun, 2013-03-17 01:49

Government sues over 'dud' rescue boat

another interesting cat story below ,

By court reporter Loukas Founten, ABCUpdated March 7, 2013, 11:39 am
ABC © Government sues over rescue boat (file photo)

A Queensland-based boat manufacturer is being sued by the South Australian Government, which claims it was sold a dud sea search and rescue vessel.

The SA Government spent more than $280,000 in April 2007 on the fast speed offshore patrol and rescue vessel, named the Ron Jeffery.

Sunshine Coast-based company, Noosa Cat, supplied the boat but the Government claimed that, within a month of purchase, police personnel had noticed it felt unstable in calm water.

In a statement of claim filed in the Adelaide District Court, SA said further investigation revealed the vessel was unseaworthy and failed to meet the agreed standards in the contract of sale.

The Government said the vessel "can't be operated as requested at continuous speed of at least 28 knots, fully equipped, full of fuel with a crew of six people, at an operational range of up to 200 nautical miles".

It said Noosa Cat breached the contract and engaged in misleading and deceptive conduct.

The Government said the boat was worthless other than for salvage value.

As part of the case, SA is claiming $29,452.50 for the trailer associated with the vessel, which it said broke after about six months on the road.

The Government said the Ron Jeffery's unseaworthy condition had forced it to use two larger, more expensive vessels.

It claimed the Ron Jeffery would cost about $150 per day of use, but larger vessels the Protector and the Investigator cost $300 and $800 per day respectively.

The Government said it incurred a total additional cost of $22,750 between January 2010 and June 2012 for using the larger boats.

SA also is seeking nearly $4,000 in costs for travel and accommodation for staff who visited Noosa to examine the Ron Jeffery before delivery.

'Recommendation ignored'

In its statement of defence, Noosa Cat denied the allegations.

It said it recommended to the Government during the tender process that it purchase a different model of catamaran, with lighter radar and engines but it said the recommendation was rejected.

The company denied any breach of contract, misrepresentation or failure to comply with the supply requirements.

"The plaintiff relied on its own advisers, not representations by the defendant, throughout the tender process," it said.

Noosa Cat said the SA Government was to blame for any corrosion of the boat trailer and its overall poor state because it kept the trailer in a "salt water environment" and "failed to properly clean and maintain" it.

It said the Government was not entitled to commence legal action because there was a non-litigation clause in the sale contract.

"At no time has the plaintiff sought to return the Ron Jeffery or the trailer to the defendant, either prior to or after filing the claim," it argued.

"The warranty period expired two years after supply, before the plaintiff commences this action and therefore the plaintiff is not entitled to take this action to recover costs, expenses, losses and or damages."

In a statement obtained by the ABC, Police Minister Michael O'Brien said "the Ron Jeffery is not currently in use" but "is the subject of court proceedings".

The case is listed for a settlement conference in a month.
On its website, Noosa Cat claims its vessels "are used by virtually every statutory or governmental authority dealing with ocean and waterways. This includes the Army, Navy and Air Force. As well, such is their incredible offshore - all weather capability - they form nowadays the backbone of Australia's Search and Rescue fleet."

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OFW 11

evil flourishes when good men do nothing

 

Posts: 1755

Date Joined: 02/01/10

Jeez, sounds like the Labor

Sun, 2013-03-17 08:34

Jeez, sounds like the Labor Party trying anything to steal money