Hydrastar break away -brakes not working - update- now working in reverse!

UPDATE
have put the car in reverse as westcoast suggested and jumped on the brakes with the unit switched to manual and the unit and brakes work perfect

So is this wired ok or do I need to change it? - if so which pin?

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g'day

Recently bought a boat that came with a nice Mackay trailer, the trailer is only about 3 years old but the rego was out, bought from an auction so no history or previous owner to go back to. My boat is in a stack so have not used it but wanted to get rego
Checking the brakes, the brake-away unit works fine -pull the pin the unit kicks in and the brakes lock on solid.
If I apply the brakes in the car (I have a redarc brake unit in car) the hydra-star does not kick in - nothing.
I have checked the power out of the trailer plug, fine - and the blue wire that runs into the hydrastar has 12volts showing on the multimeter when brakes are applied and 0 when not (to me that would seem ok?)

so I know power is getting to the unit when the brakes are on
I know the unit works because if I pull the b/away pin the brakes lock on
but the ffff brakes wont work off car! :-(
I have fiddled a bit with the wiring, it all looks in good shape and the earth looks fine - anyone got any ideas?

Hydrastar HBA 12- 1200

cheers


Posts: 5745

Date Joined: 18/01/12

 Try Google

Sat, 2016-11-12 15:40

 Have you googled it, or looked on this site?
This is on FW

"I have a TowPro / Hydrastar setup, but...

Started out with a standard TowPro unit that wouldn't recognise the trailer.  Fixed the problem with a Load resistor, but the unit actively calibrates and wouldn't do that with a Hydrastar.  The solution was to calibrate on another trailer with a compatible unit, then it would be OK and it would work with the Hydrastar.  Unfortunately I didn't have access to another trailer.

Ended up buying the Elite version - changed the units over and it works fine.  The Elite calibrates differently and works well with my setup.

Like you, liked the in dash design of the TowPro.  Now have a standard TowPro for sale on Gumtree!!  Also have a P3 if anyone wants one."

 

Also on Hydrastar that some Redarcs are not comptible.

Check the blue wire at the Hydrastar, also check the earth is connecting between trailer/car

____________________________________________________________________________

 Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...

 

 

The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.

Everyone's just winging it.

 

pelagicyachts's picture

Posts: 1301

Date Joined: 23/02/11

i have the tow pro elite....

Sat, 2016-11-12 18:39

i have the tow pro elite.... :-(

pelagicyachts's picture

Posts: 1301

Date Joined: 23/02/11

thanks mate yeah google came

Sat, 2016-11-12 17:08

thanks mate
yeah google came up with everything where there is no power to the unit - I have power to the unit under brakes
I have been told that the towpro is compatible (but that remains to be seen!) and the blue wire that runs into the hydra star is getting 12v when the brakes are applied... just fitted the towpro and took me ages to get the controller in the right place..... ripper

pelagicyachts's picture

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Date Joined: 23/02/11

hmm -looks like I will have

Sat, 2016-11-12 19:03

hmm -looks like I will have Redarc towpro elite for sale shortly.....

Posts: 569

Date Joined: 24/04/11

Power

Sat, 2016-11-12 20:19

It sounds like you have it covered already, but there is two 12V cables.

The first is on all the time, the 2nd is tbe beake signal. Need to make sure you have both of those.

Where are you testing for voltage at? make sure teh connnections on the trailer plug are all in good condition and making good contact through the plug.

 

bennym_82's picture

Posts: 86

Date Joined: 18/05/16

Tow pro elite

Sat, 2016-11-12 22:08

Can't tell from your post but if you're stationary and trying the brake pedal, the tow pro won't work. Try pushing the red arc button manually, should hear the hydra star unit pump kick in. Tow pro elite works on inertia and won't actually apply brake if car is already stopped. Manually pressing button overrides this and energized brakes (handy when bleeding lines). Otherwise, when you first drive off brakes will be clunky until unit calibrates itself.

pelagicyachts's picture

Posts: 1301

Date Joined: 23/02/11

hi mate thanks - yeah was

Mon, 2016-11-14 09:25

hi mate
thanks - yeah was trying to bleed brakes when I worked out it wouldn't kick in- I did change to manual and turned it up to full. When the brake pedal is pushed I get 12v into the blue wire than goes into the hydra star unit (near the fluid filler)...
Will try driving it tonight to see if it works then -

Posts: 694

Date Joined: 16/08/09

 I have a hydrastar unit and

Sat, 2016-11-12 22:58

 I have a hydrastar unit and tow pro elite controller and it works great. Just get an auto sparky to have a look at it. Mine will work if stationary too, foot on brake unit kicks in. It's a new hydrastar and tow pro elite all installed early this year. 

Scotte's picture

Posts: 1142

Date Joined: 07/12/06

 Yeah mine still" hums"  when

Sun, 2016-11-13 11:00

 Yeah mine still" hums"  when stationary  too.

Posts: 812

Date Joined: 09/10/06

 Just to throw it out there.

Sun, 2016-11-13 08:39

 Just to throw it out there. Hydrastars have 2 circuits. If the breakaway works doesnt always mean the that the unit is fully functional. Theres afew tests you can do to verify the units running and wired up correctly. 

Once yourve verified the hydrastars fine then you can look at car.

If your near O'Conner, bring the trailer past fremantle trailers and we will have a look. 

 

 

 

North Coast Marine's picture

Posts: 74

Date Joined: 23/05/16

 You do know that the redarc

Sun, 2016-11-13 12:34

 You do know that the redarc elite is a proportional controller right? As in it will only apply the brakes when it actually senses you decelerating, it does this so you don't burn out the actuator sitting at the lights. 

____________________________________________________________________________

 

 

   

Posts: 5745

Date Joined: 18/01/12

 It may well be, but for any

Mon, 2016-11-14 10:39

 It may well be, but for any controller to be compliant it must have the ability to be manually operated from the driver position of the vehicle and this must over ride any proportionate or other sensing.
Hopefully Pelagic is operating it using the manual setting?

____________________________________________________________________________

 Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...

 

 

The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.

Everyone's just winging it.

 

pelagicyachts's picture

Posts: 1301

Date Joined: 23/02/11

thanks all - so before I rip

Mon, 2016-11-14 08:43

thanks all - so before I rip my dash out to remove it I might go for a run down the street - I did think if I turned it to manual and turned it up to 10 the unit would kick in... - test run tonight, no boat on the trailer so on manual and full braking (10) I should get lock up pretty quick....

Posts: 331

Date Joined: 10/12/07

Socket on car....

Mon, 2016-11-14 10:11

Just to throw it out there - I have a Hydrastar but my controller is different. When I had the towball and seven pin plug fitted to the car the guy wired up the plug wrong. From memory the Hydrastar requires a pin with constant power. My guy wired this to the reversing light pin...so my unit only worked when I was in reverse. When I was Googling my issue  I did find wiring diagrams such as was originally done on mine...so perahps if they do not know you are planning to use it on electric brakes this may be the case??? 

pelagicyachts's picture

Posts: 1301

Date Joined: 23/02/11

thanks mate - checked the

Mon, 2016-11-14 10:31

thanks mate - checked the unit for power under brakes but not constant - will be giving the multi- meter a workout tonight!

Posts: 573

Date Joined: 23/04/14

My experience with the Hydrastar unit

Mon, 2016-11-14 11:17

My experience with the Hydrastar unit...
 
1.  Ensure that you have a constant 12V supply, totally separate from the brake signal.  On a 7 pin plug, use the pin allocated for the reversing lights.
2. This supply must be directly from the battery, with sufficient cable size to minimise voltage loss.  If the unit  cannot detect sufficient voltage it will not work.

____________________________________________________________________________

 

 

Wen's picture

Posts: 49

Date Joined: 21/10/10

Hydrastar unit

Mon, 2016-11-14 12:30

i have a hydrastar unit but with a tekonsha p3 controller.. for the 7pin plug i had to get a auto sparky to allocate power to the reversing lights pin to ensure its constantly charging..

 

Posts: 5745

Date Joined: 18/01/12

 Rather than using the

Mon, 2016-11-14 12:31

 Rather than using the reverse pin, I reckon its better to use an Anderson plug.
Can draw 20 plus amps and you can also use the anderson plug for other stuff when camping etc

____________________________________________________________________________

 Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...

 

 

The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.

Everyone's just winging it.

 

J Mann's picture

Posts: 47

Date Joined: 02/09/15

Had the same problem now fixed

Mon, 2016-11-14 13:14

Had the same issue, the unit won't calibrate with a hydraulic system. You need to calibrate it with a trailer with standard electric brakes first before you use it with boat trailer with electric/hydraulic brakes.

https://www.redarc.com.au/faq-tech-tips/tow-pro-elite-active-calibration

gerrit's picture

Posts: 26

Date Joined: 26/04/10

Same problem

Mon, 2016-11-14 19:23

Hi pelagic my Hydrastar did the same the power cable to the plug was to thin as Resurgence explain. I used a 12v battery to test the actuator to make sure it work fine that is when I found that the thinner cable doesn't work  used a thicker cable from the 12v battery and the actuator work fine.

I took my car back to the auto electrian to fit a bigger cable came back and test with trailer and the hydrastar work fine but only in manual mode I struggle for days and the redarc towpro just refuse to go in auto mode. I send the towpro back and fit the towpro elite problem solved and the trailer brake works perfect. 

Posts: 256

Date Joined: 13/08/11

www.dunbier.com/wp-content/up

Tue, 2016-11-15 09:43

www.dunbier.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/HydraStar_SM.pdf

Go to page 8 and run the tests as described, if the resolution is unit needs repaired it is most likely the circuit board

I have 2 units with stuffed circuit boards, $200 for a new board or just get a brake commander and never worry about your brake controller or actuator again.

 

pelagicyachts's picture

Posts: 1301

Date Joined: 23/02/11

thanks guys think the unit is

Tue, 2016-11-15 10:33

thanks guys
think the unit is ok - as westcoast suggested I tried it with car in reverse and it works fine -
does that mean I need to change the wiring though?

Posts: 5745

Date Joined: 18/01/12

 In reverse gear?Sounds like

Tue, 2016-11-15 10:41

 In reverse gear?
Sounds like your plug is wired up wrong?

Maybe take it to a trailer place if you dont have the gear to work out which wire is powering what?

____________________________________________________________________________

 Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...

 

 

The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.

Everyone's just winging it.

 

Posts: 573

Date Joined: 23/04/14

Not wrong

Tue, 2016-11-15 17:40

I'd say most likely wired up as I alluded to.

____________________________________________________________________________

 

 

Posts: 331

Date Joined: 10/12/07

Desperate...

Tue, 2016-11-15 11:01

You know you are desperate when you take auto electrics advice from me!! I had never had electric brakes before. Assumed they were working as everytime I backed the trailer back they would lock up. Only took me a year to figure out nothing was happening under normal operation.  

Not sure where you are located but Russel from Advantec (mobile auto sparky) sorted it out. He is in the Scarborough area. Roland from Towsafe knows his stuff as well and will go through it over the phone...although I still needed a sparky!!

If you know a bit about electrics could probably do it yourself. From my limited knowledge the unit requires constant power, in addition to getting a signal when you press the brakes. Looks like the constant power wire is hooked up to the reversing pin...which is the way a lot of the wiring diagrams appear when you Google it?

 

 

 

pelagicyachts's picture

Posts: 1301

Date Joined: 23/02/11

haha - trailer has to go over

Tue, 2016-11-15 15:34

haha - trailer has to go over pits - so yes am getting desperate - not looking forward to ripping half the car out to run another power source to the rear of the car...

The Saint's picture

Posts: 456

Date Joined: 30/01/13

As resurgence said...

Tue, 2016-11-15 12:27

My Hydrastar operates with a constant power supply wired to the reversing light pin (instead of a reversing light wire). Sounds like you need to disconnect the reversing light wire from the allocated pin on the plug and replace it with a 12 volt constant supply direct from the battery. If your unit works when in reverse, this seems to indicate that everthing operates when there is a power supply. I reckon this may solve your problem.

pelagicyachts's picture

Posts: 1301

Date Joined: 23/02/11

thanks mate - I wired it as

Tue, 2016-11-15 15:31

thanks mate - I wired it as per the instructions that came with the unit but will give that a go - have wired up a few tekonshas before no problems but always learning!

Posts: 5

Date Joined: 11/11/16

Check compatibility

Tue, 2016-11-15 16:28

I was looking at compatability of my redarc controller and it is not compatible with the brake unit I am going to get.

Apparently it has to be progressive to work on a hydraulic setup...

Posts: 94

Date Joined: 27/01/10

 I have Hydrastar HBA-12

Tue, 2016-11-15 22:04

 I have Hydrastar HBA-12 units on our boat trailer (with break-away) and camper trailer (without), but use Tekonsha controllers. After 8 years of tinkering this is how I set them up. Most has already been said above.

Large 7 pin plugs,  (7 pin small plugs cannot accept the required cable size). As Rob H says you could use an Anderson plug for Pin 2 & 3 if you already have one wired up. I dont because my anderson is running 50 A cct breakers and I prefer to run 20A on the hydrastar units.

Pin 2 (Reverse) Car Battery +ve to solid black on hydrastar, with auto reset cct breaker and at least 6mm auto wire.

Pin 3 (earth) Car battery -ve to hydrastar solid white (buy twin core for the above and use the black wire, large plug will also have room for the standard earth wire).

Pin 5 (service brakes) Controller signal wire to hydrastar solid blue.

There are also different generation hydrastar actuators and the controller compatability list changes depending on your units serial numbers. See hydrastar.com.au for all the info, but Red Arc does not crack a mention as its all US based. The Aussie distributor probably knows though.

 

pelagicyachts's picture

Posts: 1301

Date Joined: 23/02/11

Great thanks mate - question

Fri, 2016-11-18 23:43

Great thanks mate - question - does the solid blue from the controller need to be 6mm as well?
Cheers
Clint

Posts: 94

Date Joined: 27/01/10

 From memory I think I run

Sat, 2016-11-19 22:38

 From memory I think I run 4mm from the controller. The controller output maxs out at about 5A so not a great load.

Tony

Posts: 94

Date Joined: 27/01/10

 I have Hydrastar HBA-12

Tue, 2016-11-15 22:06

oops