It cranks over but it won't fire
Hi guys
Went fishing on Saturday morning, clocked up 40nm round trip for 1 skippy. Came home, cleaned the boat, flushed the outboard...all good.
Went out again yesterday, same area, same distance...1 charlie court. Came home, cleaned the boat, went to flush the outboard....it won't start. Cranks over but won't fire. When I wash the boat and flush the outboad, I park the car/boat on a slope so the water can run off the deck and out the scuppers. Mrs gates suggested that because the main fuel tank was pretty low, maybe the pickup is not got any fuel in it....however, the fuel bulb is rock hard.
Switched the fuel changeover valve to the other tank (which is half full), still the same result. Backed the car/boat onto flat ground, same thing.....it cranks over but won't start. I thought it might be because the DFI oil reservoir was low, so I refilled it....still the same.
It's a Mercury Optimax 125hp, just had its 2 year/200hr service last December, just clocked up 200 hours on Saturday and has been a star performer from day one. This outboard will fire first kick, even when its been sitting in the shed for a month.
I've had the cover off it, looked intently at it, even swore at it, but it still refuses to fire...I know, it could be any one of a dozen things causing this, so I'll be calling the Mercury shop tomorrow for a chat.
In the meantime, anyone got any ideas on what I should be looking at, looking for, poking, pulling, etc. I suspect it's electrical.
I'm only glad that this happened at home and not while I was out fishing yesterday (or Saturday).
regards
rusty...
If life is boring, you must be doing it wrong!
fisho-ron
Posts: 2539
Date Joined: 26/09/09
you proberly have done
you proberly have done it...but
stupid me one day after fishing, washing the boat, mine done the same thing!!
i had put the keys in the ignition and forgot to put the saftey kill switch clip in....doh
went through every thing like you have until i noticed the clip hanging down.
felt like a real f/wit!!
other than that dont know, lucky it happened at home and not 40nm out.
good luck
hunterdive
Posts: 363
Date Joined: 24/02/09
Yep I was going to suggest
Yep I was going to suggest the same thing. Man over board lanyard has come off?
I know others that have been stumped by this one, easily done
r.gates
Posts: 573
Date Joined: 15/11/10
Lanyard
Hi Ron
After I wrote the post, I thought about the lanyard so I checked....it's still hooked up and the switch is in the Run position. I pulled the lanyard anyway, and turned the key. The motor cranks but won't fire. Reconnected the lanyard to the safety switch and pushed the switch back into the Run position.
The motor still only cranks but won't fire....I'm sure it's electical, just don't know what.
regards
rusty...
PS. Nice dhuie!
If life is boring, you must be doing it wrong!
Justo82
Posts: 482
Date Joined: 17/10/11
Is your engine out of gear?
Is your engine out of gear?
r.gates
Posts: 573
Date Joined: 15/11/10
Out of gear
It's out of gear....if you put into Fwd or Rev, nothing happens when turn the key.
regards
rusty...
If life is boring, you must be doing it wrong!
allrounder
Posts: 1853
Date Joined: 10/11/08
We had the same thing once at sea after a dive
It turned out one of us had knocked the fuel line on the motor and the clip had come off a little bit and the bearing was stopping the fuel flow. Other than that you may have a dicky solenoid .
So tell me have you got your info from years on the water or hours on the internet?
Andy
Posts: 522
Date Joined: 08/10/05
Check for spark. if none,
Check for spark. if none, Sounds like and I have has a couple of v6 Optis and efis do it the, 1 ignition coil fails and it takes out the coil driver in the ecu. Requiring a new coil and ecu. Is it under warranty?
uncle
Posts: 9471
Date Joined: 10/02/07
long shot
haven't sucked in some water have you, happened to me once, good thing it didn't happen at the islands!!
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
carnarvonite
Posts: 8664
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Spark
Sounds like you have run out of spark, pull one plug out and put the lead back on it with the plug resting on the engine block. Get someone to turn it over while you look at whether the plug is sparking. If no spark I suggest that some bright spark on the site will have a whole bag full to lend or sell LOL.
Seriously if no spark get in touch with you marine serviceman who will diagnose the fault.
Faulkner Family
Posts: 18017
Date Joined: 11/03/08
could you have got some
could you have got some dirty fuel through to the carby which could be blocking the jets. you did say the main tank was low so it is possible to have some gunk in the bottom of the tank. other than that as mentioned it could be spark
RUSS and SANDY. A family that fishes together stays together
Rob H
Posts: 5790
Date Joined: 18/01/12
optimax's dont have carbys,
optimax's dont have carbys, theyre EFI
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
r.gates
Posts: 573
Date Joined: 15/11/10
Got spark
I've pulled the plugs, as per carnarvonite's suggestion and I've got a healthy spark.
Taken a fuel sample from after the fuel bulb and checked for water...none in the fuel, but there is a very fine white powdery residue in the bottom of the jar. I've emptied the fuel from the jar and let it dry....there's definitely some fine white 'stuff' that feels like talc powder. Redid the test with another container, just in case the jar was dirty...same thing. It's not much, but there's some in the bottom of the second container.
This is after the inline fuel filter, but before the outboard, which has another filter....both filters were replaced last service (in December).
The only thing that's new in the fuel system is a second underfloor tank, as well as a second breather being added to the original underfloor tank. Whether the white stuff is leftover 'residue' from the welding of the second breather, I don't know, but I wouldn't imagine there'd be anything like that, could there?
I've only drawn a couple of litres from the new tank, just to make sure it was working, then I switched back to the main tank, as I'm conducting a fuel run to find out exactly how much fuel the main tank holds.
Really starting to think it's either a fuel blockage somewhere or the injectors aren't working.....clutching at straws now.
Will call my friendly Mercury dealer tomorrow and see when I can get it looked at....and I want to be there while he checks it out.
regards
rusty....
If life is boring, you must be doing it wrong!
Faulkner Family
Posts: 18017
Date Joined: 11/03/08
its all a process of
its all a process of elimination.sounds like you have done all you can , now the $ start flowing instead of the fuel
RUSS and SANDY. A family that fishes together stays together
Ian Macca
Posts: 133
Date Joined: 08/05/12
Might sound dumb, but is
Might sound dumb, but is there enough charge in your battery?
A few weeks back my 4 stroke Yammy sat there cranking over and over and wouldn't fire......
Turned out having the radio on most of the previous day getting the boat ready the battery was a bit low and there wasn't enough cranking amps for it to fire.
A quick jump start and off she went.
Hope you get it sorted soon!
uncle
Posts: 9471
Date Joined: 10/02/07
wow thats weird
not heard that one before, can understand if its turning over real slow, but if its turning over noramsl you would think it would start
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
Scotte
Posts: 1145
Date Joined: 07/12/06
must be fuel blockage or
must be fuel blockage or fuel pressure
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
my money is on a fuel blockage
You can remove all fuel filters and clean them throughly, then drain both fuel tanks. Then put a quarter of a tank of new fuel in one tank refit filters bring up pressure in the fuel bulb and try cranking it over.
All this is going to take you a bit of time but it will also save you some dollars by doing the basic stuff yourself.
dkonig82
Posts: 2091
Date Joined: 06/07/10
I had this happen to me once
I had this happen to me once - the problem was the primer bulb.
The thing had pretty much seized up between one trip and another so it felt like it was hard / didn't require priming, but in fact it wasn't priming any fuel up.
Switched the bulb, instantly fixed.
Just something else to try...
When asked by a non-fisherman 'how many fishing rods do you really need?' the correct answer is either:
n+1 (where n is the number of fishing rods you currently own); or
n-1 (where n is the number of fishing rods which would cause your significant other to dump you.
sstevee
Posts: 472
Date Joined: 15/11/11
If you have access to a
If you have access to a portable tank could you not put fresh fuel in it and eliminate some options... I.e. bad fuel, blocked lines, Etc...
shonky
Posts: 203
Date Joined: 22/04/12
3 reasons
There's only 3 reasons a motor won't run.Spark, compression & fuel.My monies on the fuel supply,see if you have juice at The motor not just the bulb, if fuels getting to the motor get ready to put your hand in you're pocket ,fuel pump,injectors etc or maybe just a loose wire.
This habit is getting expensive!
r.gates
Posts: 573
Date Joined: 15/11/10
Update
Hi guys
Thanks for your comments and suggestions.
I've recently installed a second battery, complete with changeover/isolation switch. I've tried cranking it over on each battery, as well as with both batteries in parallel and the cranking speed is the same. It spins over at the same speed in all 3 switch positions....the cranking speed sounds 'normal' to me; not laboured or slow.
I've checked the fuel bulb and it's ok. There's a joiner in the fuel line between the bulb and the engine so I split it there and squeezed the bulb to draw fuel from the tank, through the fuel filter on the transom and into a container and it works fine. Using this same setup, I've drawn fuel from both tanks, via the fuel changeover valve, and I get the same good fuel flow from each tank.
If it's a fuel blockage, it's after the internal fuel filter on the engine.
I've spoken to my local Mercury dealer and I'm taking it in on Thursday. The first thing they asked was whether the safety lanyard was properly fitted. I asked if I could hang around while they check it out but I was told that they are booked up but will fit it in, which I quite understand, but it's really bugging me and I would like to be there when they give it the 'once over'.
As the outboard was purchased new in November 2010 and it's always been serviced by an authorised Mercury dealer at the prescribed intervals, it's covered by Mercury's 3 + 2 year warranty....so if it's a component failure like a pump, injectors, engine management unit, etc. I'd like to think that it would be covered under warranty.
Should know something by Thursday arvo and I'll be sure to let you know what it is.
regards
rusty...
If life is boring, you must be doing it wrong!
carnarvonite
Posts: 8664
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Lanyard
I the lanyard wasn'fitted correctly then you wouldn't have got spark before when you pulled the plug out and tested it so it sounds like an internal filter or something electrical stopping the injectors working.
r.gates
Posts: 573
Date Joined: 15/11/10
Lanyard check
Yes, you are right, carnarvonite.
I checked this very thing this evening. As per your comment yesterday about checking for a spark at the plugs, I redid the test this evening with the lanyard in the Run and Off positions. Had a spark when in Run but nothing when the lanyard was pulled.
Can only be a fuel blockage before the injectors or electrical issue with the injectors.
rusty...
If life is boring, you must be doing it wrong!
r.gates
Posts: 573
Date Joined: 15/11/10
High pressure fuel pump
I took the boat to my local Mercury dealer this morning and got to hang around while they checked it out. They quickly sussed out a lack of fuel pressure at the injector fuel rail so they dismantled the fuel ventilation tank on the side of the outboard.
The diaphragm pump was drawing fuel in and the low pressure pump was working but there wasn't any fuel coming from the high pressure pump.
A quick bench test revealed that it wasn't spinning/pumping and the pump body got quite hot pretty quickly....due to a high current draw.
A new pump will be ordered and installed under warranty.....should get the boat back early next week.
Not something you can fix on the water....who would carry a spare pump.
rusty...
If life is boring, you must be doing it wrong!
Rob H
Posts: 5790
Date Joined: 18/01/12
lucky day!
but being warranty they just replace the whole thing, if you were at the islands youd pull it to bits and find why it wasnt working-chances are just a tiny bit of shit in there.
Ive always carried a 9.8 aux (for sale now at $350!) on my single engine boats, as you only need to be 100 meters from the island and your screwed til someone comes along.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
pale ale
Posts: 1755
Date Joined: 02/01/10
Would this then void your
Would this then void your warranty, if you have started pulling it to bits?
sea-kem
Posts: 14952
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Bloody hell mate buy a
Bloody hell mate buy a lottery ticket.
Love the West!
Faulkner Family
Posts: 18017
Date Joined: 11/03/08
good to hear Rusty. back out
good to hear Rusty. back out there soon and not broke
RUSS and SANDY. A family that fishes together stays together
r.gates
Posts: 573
Date Joined: 15/11/10
Old pump
They gave me the old pump so i will pull it apart and see what is inside it...something has stopped it pumping so if I can find out what, maybe I can prevent it from happening again.
I will buy myself a lotto ticket, that's for sure!
rusty...
If life is boring, you must be doing it wrong!
uncle
Posts: 9471
Date Joined: 10/02/07
good result
good thing it was in the driveway, isn't it amazing how things just stop working
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
fisho-ron
Posts: 2539
Date Joined: 26/09/09
great to see you got it
great to see you got it sorted mate!!