Its official essendoping is their name
Submitted by uncle on Tue, 2016-01-12 05:33
12 current players and 5 others banned for 12 months by Wada.what does that do for your season
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all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
Deleted
Posts: 6265
Date Joined: 26/04/14
Well well well
Well well well
Gotta feel for woosha and any of the new guys. Report says it's final no appeals is this the end?
Doggie
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Date Joined: 13/03/15
Jobe can say bye bye
Jobe can say bye bye brownlow
crasny1
Posts: 7003
Date Joined: 16/10/08
Sorry to say this
But if this was washed under the carpet, then all other athletes will think I can get away with it. WADA is focussed on eradicating all drugs and when I was involved with Rally Australia and even in Motorsport the introduction was started.
Jobe should loose the Brownlow unfortunately as he is a fantastic player, BUT it was won on a performance enhancing (??) drug when he won it, ie Lance Armstrong like.
FN Hurd still thinks "all is well and it is an miscarriage of justice". Is there an award for the Australian tosser of the Year?? I once thought of him as the elite of the elite, NOT anymore.
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
totaly agree cransy
I cant agree more loved the way james hird played the game but whats not to say he wasnt on some type of PED in those days , don't think they did drug testing in his playing days , got what they deserved .Its just cheating , its the parents of the players I feel for I would imagine the parents would want to strangle james hird
Jackfrost80
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This is a great day!
This is a great day!
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
big john
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Timboon
Timboon are you out there (or are you still re-homing greyhounds)?
WA based manufacturer and supplier of premium leadhead jigs, fligs, bucktail jigs, 'bulletproof' soft plastic jig heads and XOS bullet jig heads.
Jigs available online in my web store!
Wes F
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Time to move on
James Hird should man up and take responsibility for his roll in implementing the supplement program as should any other club official involved. Each player is responsible for any treatment or drug whether approved or not which they have administered. Just because the club said it's OK doesn't mean it is. Very interesting that the club's head doctor took such a strong stance at the beginning and cleared of any involvement. Make's you ask the question was he consulted about this program at any point of time.
I feel sorry for the junior/young players who had just started out with the club, most if not all of them have been roped into this trusting that the club will have their best interest at heart but no bigger longer stronger was James's goal.
At least now they can move on with this whole sordid affair. Cleanup the club, new coach and staff hopefully they have a bright future. Would not be good to see a proud strong club suffer under a tarnished name for to long.
Essendon club and supporters good luck with 2016 time to rebuild and come back with a full player group 2017.
Old fishermen never die they just smell that way.
uncle
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How long before the sponsers
Start jumping off.cant see hird involved in footy again
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
petermac
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just me but
if you did what hird did in horse racing and go caught you would be warned of every race track on the planet same should happen to him
Deleted
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You'd be keeping a low
You'd be keeping a low profile if you were in charge of recruitment at the saints wouldn't ya
out wide
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Is Ryder gone..piss poor
Is Ryder gone..piss poor recruitment from Port as well. The World anti Doping Authority were never going to let these turkeys off like our piss weak awada was.
sea-kem
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A good result imo. Let's
A good result imo. Let's hope the rest of the clubs sit up and take notice.
Love the West!
Lamby
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You have to feel for the
You have to feel for the supporters & I firmly believe that the players questioned the supplements but would have been assured it was not illegal but now paying with their careers. What happens financially as well if they don't play?
sea-kem
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Good points Liam, do the
Good points Liam, do the younger players have mangers to look after their interests or are they soley under the club's wing and mercy?
Love the West!
out wide
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I wonder if its finished or
I wonder if its finished or are they going to look at Geelong or Gold Coast. Teams that Danks was involved with.
NORUN NOFUN
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The whole saga was built on
The whole saga was built on circumstance and still with no definitive answer as to whether the players took a banned substance.
You either prove they did it / or didn't do it - quite fucking simple.
To quote - " The decision has been based on a burden of proof that is a comfortable satisfaction " is a disgrace.
So the AFL rule one way, WADA the other ! - two different views on a burden of proof.
The AFL has been a disgrace since the saga of the west coast eagles, Ben Cousins and other individuals from other clubs - once again its fine to take illicit substances as these will not enhance performance, pffft !
The whole saga is a joke with no end in sight.
Let the game go back to what we enjoy !
The AFL needs to get tough on all drugs, and if you prosecute individuals or a club, you make sure it is definitive !
Rant over, sick to death of hearing about this shit.
EDIT - I am in no way defending what the Essendon football club has done.
randall df223
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A tribunal rules one way....
An AFL appointed tribunal rules one way.... a panel of three QC's from around the globe rule the other way... amazing what happens when independent and unclouded eyes look at the same evidence.
Fish! HARD!
resurgence
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Yep
Whatever WADA may or may not be, I'll take independent regulation of drugs in sport any day of the week.
Dale
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Worsfold must have seen this as a worse case scenario when he said yes for the coach job too I'd have thought.
"Just because you are a Character, Doesn't mean you have Character."
Mr Wolf
Jackfrost80
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As a chemist he's probably
As a chemist he's probably laughing at their rookie attempts at PEDs
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
randall df223
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One essendoping member has
One essendoping member has offered on gumtree his 2016 membership to swap for a dick smith gift card. ...
Fish! HARD!
Jackfrost80
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I wonder if he'd take a Boans
I wonder if he'd take a Boans gift card
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
uncle
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R crowley and a few others
Will be celebrating tonite I reakon
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
Paully
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Be interesting to see
Whos playing them twice this season - could almost bank 2 wins straight up and probably a healthy % boost.
Paully
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Sam Mitchell
and Cotchin might be about to be joint Brownlow medalists too - must be a possibility!
Perry Home
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Date Joined: 07/10/10
Players managers and the Aflpa
If you read in greater detail (ABC NEWS). You will see that the players and AFL Players Association took steps to protect themselves against any won't doing. Remember also that the players are contracted to the club and so what they are told by their employer... Essendon FC is to follow those instructions or you are in breach of contact. It is Essendon and the clubs hierarchy responsible... not just James Hird The club will now be sued by a class action by the 34 effected players to the tune of 30-40 million.. loss of trade grief stress you name it. This is a long way from over and debris will continue to fallout. Essendon FC may be insolvent within the next few years... which reflects badly on the AFL who are the stewards of the game.
randall df223
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It was reported that the
It was reported that the players agreed to keep the supplements secret, and then lied in their evidence denying dank traveled with the team on away games. Their evidence came unstuck when text messages proved othwise. Players lost all their credibility. So cas are satisfied the players knew what was hsppening and they were complicit in keep it secret and then trying to cover it up. If it legit and they believed it was legit, there was no need to keep it under wraps and cover it up.
Bottom line, if you want credibility, dont lie. If you choose to lie, expect the worst when you get found out.
After having read the reporting of the decision, i believe more than ever the players have got what they deserved.
Fish! HARD!
Perry Home
Posts: 434
Date Joined: 07/10/10
Brownlow ?
Remains a question mark. Watson did not knowingly take the performance enhancing drugs. Look at Cousins situation.... knowingly took illicit substances on the banned list during the Era that he won his Brownlow... later sanctioned by the AFL but still has his "Chas". Would Cotchin & Mitchell want a retrospective medal taken from a player who played to his knowledge his F&B football that season .. whilst unbeknownst to him was being injected with a substance he verified with Essendon and AFL officials fell inside the usable guidelines at the time. Jobe Watson through all that we've seen of him both playing and as Captain of his club may even offer the medal back. . Such is the calibre of the man. Btw I'm an Eagles supporter who just wants to see players and teams playing their best quality contested footy.
petermac
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very very good point
I have seen a bloke in the Pilbara take some sort of drug before a game then play out his skin little bugger just blizzed it on the field on the bus back from port headland to karratha he was out of control, he admitted to me days later he had taken something but wouldn't say what
(it was rugby league but)
Jackfrost80
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No need to get overly
No need to get overly creative.
Essenscum still works
Officially off the Pies bandwagon
out wide
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Haha and I thought Jobe was
Haha and I thought Jobe was the first and only one to put his hand up and say I'm guilty expecting a 6 month ban for early plea..then James Turd got in his ear. You would bet your house that he will hand it up.
tadpole
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Will Sportsbet honour my
Will Sportsbet honour my money I put on Cotchin that year if it gets handed on?? Bloody dreaming
tim-o
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Haha
Wouldn't it be sweet if Sniper Mitchell wins a Charlie to add to his 4 other medals? That's right, the guy that ruined Fwemantle's flag hopes last year and now this year lol. Took out Fwife's little quad after the poof turned to block him well off the footy instead of protecting his player with the ball from one of Sniper's mates. Lead to time off and a struggle to play well then a broken leg in his team's EPIC FAIL at Domain in September and now his back is fucked, that's how Wanchor fans see it right? Hehe, this is supposed to be about Dopey Bombers, but I can turn any footy convo into a purple piss take. I hear the new stadium is having 3 prayer rooms, must be for Wanchor fans when the Hawks come over or any games in September lollll ;) Mitch will add a Norm to his collection this year, Fourthorn FTW
I am, as I've said, merely competent. But in an age of incompetence, that makes me extraordinary.
randall df223
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EPIC FAIL = the eagles 2015
EPIC FAIL = the eagles 2015 grand final
Stones and glass houses
Edit... Sorry, thought paully wrote that post
Fish! HARD!
Swompa
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Are we starting this already?
Are we starting this already?
sea-kem
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Lolz Randall, how can you
Lolz Randall, how can you call that an epic fail when we made it there surpassing all expectations even your own club who were expected to be there 'No question!'
Ha stop passing your club's failure's over to us. We did well, you didn't end of story.
Love the West!
tim-o
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Lol
As insipid as WC were, they achieved more than the Wanchors. IMO Fweo losing the prelim was a way bigger F up and enjoyed that win more than the gf, the finale was just formality :)
I am, as I've said, merely competent. But in an age of incompetence, that makes me extraordinary.
Paully
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^ Well
what he said Randall - was true
petermac
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seriously what that about the room
I cant believe we are supplying 3 Muslim prayer rooms in the new stadium , I am a Buddhist can I have 1 too not that I go to the footy to pray I go to see my team win and do my praying at home for my team to win (some times doesn't work) wifey is a Buddhist as well and prays for the eagles to win and my team to loose her prayers are working better than mine
Paully
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Get
of the gas Tim-o
randall df223
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Rather mitchell win it than
Rather mitchell win it than a drug cheat
Fish! HARD!
tim-o
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Pfff
Crowley hasnt ever polled a vote..... Never guna win one
I am, as I've said, merely competent. But in an age of incompetence, that makes me extraordinary.
NORUN NOFUN
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Where do you get your facts
Where do you get your facts from Randall ?
Is there any chance you can back your comments up with, let's say, some concrete evidence that the 34 took TB4 ?
As I said previously, you can manipulate any evidence put before a court and in fact put out a finding that is floored.
WADA has not proved squat ! They were just " comfortably satisfied ".
Yes there were major systemic failures within the Essendon FC, they should be sanctioned for their part in the supplements program, as should the players, but you can't ban 34 players for 2 years for taking TB4 if you can't prove the case !
I don't go for Essendon and am not baised in any way, I just see it as it is.
randall df223
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There's two accepted levels
There's two accepted levels for burdens of proof in australia. Beyond reasonable doubt for criminal matters (the highest required) and on the balance of probabilities for civil matters. This comfortably satisfied level of proof is new to me but sounds that is is about the same as the our balance of probabilities.
My facts come from what was reported in the media yesterday as key elements that CAS made their decision on.
This isnt a criminal trial so they dont have to prove it to the criminal level, they only had to be 'comfortably satisfied' on the evidence provided. A lot, if not all the evidence is circumstantial. But when CAS looked at ALL the circumstances, they must have been comfortably satisfied that the players knowingly took part in the doping. The fact the players then lied in their evidence to try to cover it up, hasnt done them any favours.
Guilty! Bullied into it by a club legend, perhaps. And imo the senior players have mych to answer for. Someone should have stood up at the time and said, "this is wrong". But they're all guilty.
I cant see why anyone is shocked by this decision.
Fish! HARD!
randall df223
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Date Joined: 08/08/11
You say wada were only
You say wada were only comfortably satisfied....
Wada doesnt need to be anything because theyre not the decision makers here.
CAS are the ones that need to be comfortable satisfied. And thats all they need to be because thats the level of burden required to find someone guilty. Its written in anti-doping code. If it were a criminal trial, its quite likely they would be not guilty. Thats life. Thats sport. Professional sportsmen should be well aware of that.
Fish! HARD!
resurgence
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Standard of proof
In criminal courts, the standard of proof is "beyond reasonable doubt". In civil cases, the standard of proof is "on the balance of probabilities". CAS uses a different standard - "comfortable satisfaction", which is somewhere between the other two. However, regardless of the standard of proof used, it's possible to be found guilty in the face of strong circumstantial evidence, even if there is no direct evidence. I can't recall for certain but I think the AFL Tribunal also uses "comfortable satisfaction".
WADA have been successful in prosecuting a number of cases now where they have gathered enough evidence of illicit drug use, even though they don't have a positive test to fall back on. This is an important because the drug cheats will always be ahead of the game with ways to mask drug use.
WADA also commented on the different assessment of the evidence between the AFL tribunal and CAS. Basically the AFL Tribunal said that, despite the overwhelming evidence otherwise, they delivered a not guilty finding on the strength of only one thing - no positive test. CAS on the other hand took the view that despite the lack of positive test, if sufficient other evidence points to an outcome then it must be the case. For some reason the AFL Tribunal suddenly decided to use something more akin to "beyond reasonable doubt".
crasny1
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There never was
concrete proof just evidence that Lance Armstrong took PEDs.
So in his case it also was "comfortably satisfied".
Numerous other athletes "never" tested positive but was caught out by other evidence - Marion Jones, Ben Johnson.
For a full list see - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stripped_Olympic_medals
And these are only the Medallists???
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
NORUN NOFUN
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Not shocked at the decision,
Not shocked at the decision, but the severity, yes.
You cant call all these young guys drug cheats unless they have tested positive to TB4 or any banned substance for that matter, they may have had intent to do so, but they were never actually proven to do so.
You have chosen to accept the floored system that WADA is, a system the AFLPA and AFL have acknowledged that does not fit the sport of AFL and are already talking about returning to the previous system that the AFLPA and the AFL were running.
WADA and ASADA will leave behind a mess that may well carry on for years to come, the players should have been dealt with appropriately and received a lesser sentence - this being for lying and participating in the supplements program, the only thing that has been established so far.
The AFL could have made changes to the way clubs go about their business, and the competition could return once and for all to what we enjoy.
Now it's just a -ucking mess.
EDIT - What bloody rules do you think CAS follow ? Who appealed for CAS ? A bunch of fwits in Switzerland did !
Anyway, I'm over it
randall df223
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Date Joined: 08/08/11
Did lance armstrong ever
Did lance armstrong ever test positive?
The AFL, AFLPA, Essendon, Hird, Dank, the players all think its unfair because they all have a 'brand' to protect.
The WADA system works for many other sports and athletes around the world. Why should the AFLPA think our great game should be outside that? That's arrogant imo. WADA has a place to make sure honest athletes compete in a fair environment.
I want the team i support to be competing in a fair environment. And performance enhancing drug cheats arent welcome, and i more than happy that crowley didnt play another game for Fremantle after he was charged and started serving a provisional suspension.
Fish! HARD!
crasny1
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Sorry randall
Posted similar about lance above.
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
resurgence
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Date Joined: 23/04/14
WADA code
Under the WADA code, the first offence for any infringement carries a two year penalty. They work backwards from there if there are circumstances that may warrant reducing the penalty. It's the same for every sport all over the world.
The code also has a "no significant fault" clause. Unfortunately the players threw that out the window when lied to the investigation about the injection program.
What really would have sunk their (the players) case is the one guy, can't recall his name, who said no to the whole program.
Funny, every time around the world that a leading sporting figure is banned, interested parties all claim that the WADA code doesn't suit their sport.
Ol Tom
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Pity they cant be
Pity they cant be comfortably satisfied with these boneheads that go around terrorrising the public only to be slapped on the wrist or let go to re-offend
NORUN NOFUN
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Date Joined: 15/08/11
Lance Armstrong admitted to
Lance Armstrong admitted to what he did, he even had a little cry with Oprah on primetime - subsequently he has been stripped of everything. Essendon players have admitted nothing. That is a stupid analogy.
Would you just happen to be a west coast fan Randall ?
Some would consider west coast to be the biggest drug cheats of the modern day era !
But these were just illicit drugs and have a 3 strike policy, and just happen to not be performance enhancing - no ice ice addict has super human strength and can run round like a madman - hang on ! how many touches did Ben Cousins have in his first game back ( another dickhead that was high on ice and won a premiership and a brownlow )- what a bloody joke !
Compare Ryan Crowley to Ben Cousins and you will realise where the whole system is floored.
You completely miss the point.
Paj man
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Date Joined: 16/09/12
Jobe
Didn't Jobe Watson admit to taking AOD - couple of seasons back?
aka Nick
randall df223
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Date Joined: 08/08/11
A) lance armstrong only
A) lance armstrong only admitted everything after he had been found guilty
B) you obviously dont know me.... asking of i am a west coast supporter....
C) jobe watson admitted taking one of the supplements on national tv. All players have admitted recieving injections
D) west coast and many other, probably all teams have issues with recreational drugs that arent covered under the wada code and theyre not performance enhancing
And i read today that some greenie mp is seeking a federal inquiry and says the wada model doesnt suit the 'culture' of team sport and perhaps a different model is needed? I say, perhaps a different culture is needed. And that doesn't mean a culture of 'snitching'. That means a culture where individuals are empowered and encouraged to stsnd up and say no.
Ffs, one player didnt even disclose this program to his own personal doctor when being treated for another condition. What sort of culture is that?
Fish! HARD!
uncle
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Well thats funnier then this e girls wanchors crap
Kochie is going to sue essendon because his club drafted two druggies from essendon, they tried to pick up players involved in the essendon debacle and got burnt ha ha
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Paully
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^ Just saw part of an interview
With Kochie - who says they feel they've been hoodwinked
- what a fool, another example of passing the blame - putting his / their monkey on someone else's back. His credability has taken a hit there.
sea-kem
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I predict Jobe will hand
I predict Jobe will hand back his Brownlow. I actually like the guy and just think he and the rest of them were stupid enough to get caught up in this sorry situation. Doesn't take away the fact that they are guilty and deserve their punishment.
Love the West!
Dale
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Yep, I kinda think the same way Andy.
"Just because you are a Character, Doesn't mean you have Character."
Mr Wolf
crasny1
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In the same book as you Andy
I think to get his credibility back (and in my opinion he has heaps of that) he will probably do that.
He and the other players made mistakes, and if he is the man I think he is like his father that's what I suspect he will do. Time will tell.
He certainly is no Hird!
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
Lamby
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. For me punishment has been
NORUN NOFUN
Posts: 1035
Date Joined: 15/08/11
Your right randall i got no
Your right randall i got no idea who the hell you are ! I have my opinion and you have yours ! That's what makes this world a great place.
You love your wada and i reckon it's a crock of shit !
Agree to disagree
randall df223
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(I bleed purple )
(I bleed purple
)
Fish! HARD!
uncle
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And that could
Be bad for your health!
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randall df223
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And on another note, the
And on another note, the great man Pav, has stepped down as captain of Fremantle.
A great leader. A great role model. A wonderful asset to the Club and the game.
Thank you Pav for your years of loyalty and guidance.
Fish! HARD!
Gadsy
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hey Randall, don't forget Pav's years of no flags too!
lol.
uncle
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ha ha could finish like a lot of Champions
No flag
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Paully
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^ will be the case
sadly - for him.
tim-o
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Haha
That look on Fatt Pavalovaich's face when he finished the 2015 season on the bench, priceless! Droppin captainsy to make way for retirement announcement after a round 8 flogging and the team not even in the 8 ;)
I am, as I've said, merely competent. But in an age of incompetence, that makes me extraordinary.
ranmar850
Posts: 2702
Date Joined: 12/08/12
Perspective is everything
I'm in South Oz for a few days, one local news reaction was a screaming banner " PORT AND ESSENDON SMASHED BY BAN !!!! " Port lose 2 players , Essondon lose 12 ...South Orstralians
randall df223
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Date Joined: 08/08/11
Treat those comments with
Treat those comments with the contempt they deserve. Hasnt won a flag as captain, granted. There is however, only a handful of others who have captained teams in more games than Pav. He has been freo's captain for close on half our existence and taken the club from a basket case to a competitive beast.
Your opinions mean nothing. His record speaks for itself.
Fish! HARD!
Dale
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"Just because you are a Character, Doesn't mean you have Character."
Mr Wolf
petermac
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treat those coments with contempt
I am a melbourne supporter , Matt Pavolich has been an ornament to our great game and a great role model I put him up there with the all time greats that that didn't get succsess
such as Robbie Flower maybe this year for the big Pav
randall df223
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Date Joined: 08/08/11
Fish! HARD!
Lamby
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Legend of the game, brilliant
Legend of the game, brilliant career, leader & role model. No fan could deny they wouldn't give their left nut to have drafted him into their side
randall df223
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Fish! HARD!
crasny1
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With You on that
During the footy season Im Eagles, but as a West Aussie Freo is my second favourite team (alas Two team returns and its not even the start of the season yet)and he is a downright legend.
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
NORUN NOFUN
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Gadsy
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Opinions Randall?
it's a fact actually. Granted he was a pretty good player in his day and will almost certainly end up never playing in a premiership side. Maybe he should have stayed in SA.
randall df223
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Date Joined: 08/08/11
Your opinion? A biased one
Your opinion? A biased one at that. "A pretty good player".
An all australian defender, midfielder, and forward.... (how many others can claim that) 330+ games.... 660+ goals (consider that in the context of his all australian status as a defender and midfielder, ie he hasn't played 330 games as a forward)... multiple club champion....
In my opinion, your opinion is clouded by your blue and gold goggles and i treat it with contempt.
Fish! HARD!
Gadsy
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Date Joined: 01/05/10
I'm as biased about my team
as you are about yours Randall
.
randall df223
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Sorry, beg to differ. I
Sorry, beg to differ. I acknowledged eagles champions like glass and cox as champions of the game rather than point out failures that were beyond their control.
Fish! HARD!
Gadsy
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Date Joined: 01/05/10
FFS Randall
It's just a bit of shit stirring. Yes, Pav is a champion of the game. You take your footy real serious eh!
crasny1
Posts: 7003
Date Joined: 16/10/08
Mate he does
Probably the most passionate supporter on here.
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
Willlo
Posts: 1490
Date Joined: 07/10/11
LOL and the easiest to wind
LOL and the easiest to wind up.
Call Sign - BZ785
Haynes Hunter Prowler CC
uncle
Posts: 9499
Date Joined: 10/02/07
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
lachieH
Posts: 1126
Date Joined: 02/03/13
Essendon idiots for not
Essendon idiots for not making the 'deal' with the other clubs and definitely ruined the name of the afl for a few years. I want Watson to keep his Brownlow but my theory is that they have gone this far with the bans, meaning they will probably go the extra step removing the Brownlow. IMO absolute bull shit every bit of it, has been dragged out and rules are made for a reason but they have taken it much too far with the 12 month ban
Fishing the swan for bream, it's just an obsession
Perry Home
Posts: 434
Date Joined: 07/10/10
If Pavlich
Had gone to a Vic club when drafted with the emphasis from the media he would be in the demi-god class... as opposed to an All Time great (300+games). Name any other 300 game player based in WA since the inception of the AFL.. its a short list. Like all players to reach that level you must be extremely concious of yr complete preparation year round. Ross Lyon has stated he's a career coach and is constantly looking for improvement each season...Freo set a body fat "allowance" of 6%. That's why Michael Walters was initially "banished " at the start of his career. .. want seen to be hungry enough!
These guys are that trim they could basically have those guernseys spray painted on.... that's not easy for a bloke like Pavlich who is in his 30s and each season start looks ready to go...credit where credit is due. I worked for the WAFC for 4 years.... met and worked with many of the players from both clubs in WA as well as Shane Crawford and Luke Hodge from the Hawks involved in promoting the game a school level in WA. Luke McPharlin is another super athlete and a great bloke to boot. Btw Day 1 Eagles supporter.. as many are.
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
Fish! HARD!
crasny1
Posts: 7003
Date Joined: 16/10/08
You just have to join in the football banter
when the season starts. We need at least 10 WCE supporters to compete with one Docker supporter - Randall!!!
Lost my emoticon ability for some reason??
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk