you can not INTENTIONALLY catch and release these species.

No you can't catch and release, BAN ON DEMERSALS.dosn't get much plainer .If you are pulled up 10 miles of shore with dhuie gear on board and rods .Then you can be fined.

i wouldnt want to put my self in an area were the possibility of getting demersals is super high instead fishing in deeper water ie barges for sambos is a good option. but in saying that what determines dhuie gear  . I think there is a massive grey area. i mean plenty of people jig for aj's sambos etc and dhuies hit jigs, just an example anyways.

always structured in such a way as to cause confusion - can be interpreted differently , and the lawyers have a field day .question ! how would you defend yourself against potentially having  dhui gear on board ,rods , size 6 - 7 hooks , carrying a gaff , release weight &, if your fishing in deeper water means you have crossed over dhuie country   next ban all boats from the water ? that would really go down well hey

whatif im fishing in a lump 36m deep jigging sambos up and then i have some big rods on board are they gonna do me cause im 50 m away form a spot i get my dhuies. lets bring on that arguement

or drifting in mid twenties over broken down targeting whitiing with a ganged mulie/squid ;)

...fisheries watched you pull a demersal on board and then saw you release it, what could they do? Doesn't matter if you're 10 miles out or 100 metres out, or if you're using "dhuie gear" or not. You can catch flathead/skippy/KG's/sambos on that gear and in both those locations.

A herring/tailor fisherman could be fishing whitebait/mulies near an inshore reef and still come up with a demersal. Should he be booked as well? The only way Jacko's little statement is going to stick is if they ban everyone from going out on the water completely for the two months, and you might as well pull up shore fishers from fishing North Mole (snapper) or Sugarloaf Rock/S-Bend (dhufish) because they might do the wrong thing as well.

Fug the fisheries and what they can and can;t do.If your out targeting demersals and making excuses for the gear your catching them on saying your trying to catch whiting then your a frigin knob. Just do what is wright and you would not have to ask stupid questions.

thought asking questions when unsure of something is what you did? being a fishing forum i would say seaswirl isnt asking stupid questions

Come on Guys, it would be pretty obvious if you were out fishing and deliberately targeting them. Even I could tell the diff.

If you happen to catch one while out for whiting/flatties, or jigging for Sambos,  put it back .... simple really

Ya just never know who is watching

Seems this ruling has just come in. When I was inquiring about this subject about a month ago nobody from fisheries could give me a definite answer.

Another question is when we are allowed to fish again and you have reached your bag limit of 2 dhuys is it OK to keep catching dhuys on a catch and release bases? Surely this is just as damaging to stocks as catch and release during the ban. Talking to a lot of the locals and fisheries in the southwest that believe dhuys don't spawn down here to January.

A F****** nob anyway, Did not like that guy the first time i meet him

Anyway with big gear on board and fish put back,When after sambos  

And paul you know that 20kg fish get hooked on little old reels  you catch tailor on

 And you guys know that people catch dhuies on king george rigs as well /////////// So you guys know it would not stand up in court

Steve

May be small reels and rods but big plastics aimed at mr dhufish,I could go and catch sambos all day and not catch one other demersal if I picked the ground and gear I use and fished .My last dive In 40m showed sambos a plenty but would I go fish that lump NO because there was 15 dhuies there and baldies and you name it swimming around there also. So the odds off me catching the ban deersals is prity high. If I was fishing for Kg's I would use 2kg line and a small hook I think I would not have any chance at getting a dhufish up if I wanted too. If your out fishing 10-15 mile out with 7-8size hooks and 80 pound braid and you are drifting over dhuie ground .and you tell me your after Kg's and sambos only .yer right

Not about standing up in court .Its about doing the right thing.wich some people are having a bloody hard time doing.

we are hopefully heading out tomorrow with light weight whiting rigs chasing kg's in the 30 meter mark . size 1/0 hooks on 20lb fluro and gulp sandworms.

certainly not going out with the intention of catching any protected demersal's , but how can you not , accidently.

they're right near the same ground.

@ glen jackovich

of a rediculous rule with no thought of how to police it. Some people need to remember that there are plenty of fisho's out there that don't use forums or read fishing mags or hunt the media for every rule, ban or closure. The fisheries really need to lift there game and get the info out there. I'd be pissed if i was fined if i was fishing for skippy, Kg's or Sambo's!

BTW jacko was a better footy player than a journo.

As the gear you are taking is a good guide to what you are targeting.If you catch a demersal by mistake ,then you would take care and release it .I think you guys get my drift Im not telling you not to go fishing but be a little more selective with the gear and ground you are fishing on.Ithink stoping the pros in the metro waters was good as I would guess the increase in small fish we are all seeing .The ban on demersals will have benafits in the next 4-5 years .

Agree with Paul, why go any where near them?? 2 months break is a good thing, leave them be!!

thats an odd rule in reference to the gear you can have on board..

the spots i fish are 3-5mile and are likly for demersal fish. however these spots have a large number of yellowtail kingfish and sambo's and at the right time small tunas. just cause the ban is on shouldnt mean i cant go out to target the kingies, sambo's, tuna's (all other non demersals). however the gear i use, the rods, reels and even the rigs i use are very similar for these species if not the same as it would be for demersals. I think its ridiculus if i am genuinly targeting non demersals to get fined just for having gear that can be seen as "targeting demersal fish". on another note my kingfish rig is almost a standard bottom bashing rig, yet im not intending on using it to catch demersals, although it would produce that preception. 

now obviously it is about doing the right thing, but are people saying its wrong to go out  with gear that could possibly catch demersals (even if not specificly targeting demersal)?

personaly i dont think its wrong, im in my legal right to go out fishing and target kingfish or sambo's or tunas...

 and if it is wrong well then in the allowed season isnt it also wrong to keep fishing for non demersal fish once your demersal bag limit is reached (in and area likly to catch more demersals)?

talking to some people, i find it ironic how they say, you just shouldnt be targeting sambo's or kings in an area likly to catch demersals in the closure, yet in the open season they go out catch 5 or so dhufish and releasing some of them.. shouldnt they just stop once they have their 2?

If you want your arms stretched, go to the barges come sambo time, no need to go anywhere near good ground whilst the bans are in. WHY ARGUE???????

Northwest try buying some jigs I here they work well on the kings and sambos .Would have thought you would have known that working in tackle shops.From what your saying you use a dhuie rig with some big chunks of squid on for sambos and kings Though you might have been smarter than that.Also sounds a strange way to catch tuna most troll lures .

just dont have the boats to get out to the barges. there are a few flaws here atm.

The only problem there is that they can be even more effective on dhufish than bait, and as soon as fisheries work that out they're likely to ban jigging!

Don't know if telling everyone to go to the barges over the two months is a good idea...what would it be like on weekends then? If all the tree-huggers see a thousand boats jostling for position out there, they'll fall out of the tree that they're hugging and fisheries, in their classic knee-jerk style, will ban sambo fishing as well.

How about this...go to your demersal spot, use your demersal gear...but DON'T carry a release weight! Problem solved! "How can I be demersal fishing if I haven't got a release weight?" I know I'm being a smart-arse, and I know it's both morally and ethically wrong, but fisheries, in their non-stop quest to legislate all of us off the face of the planet, haven't stopped to consider all the loopholes so in addition to them being arrogant and condescending, you can add "lack of foresight" as well.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this thread was started with a reference to whether fisheries can actually prosecute people for "looking" like they might be demersal fishing, as opposed to actually catching demersals. Nothing to do with morality/ethics/what we think is right, everything to do with whether it's legal or not.

Remember all the "paver" shots we used to see on these forums? Some people screamed and howled about the massacre on their computer screens but many others said "Hey, they didn't break the law so what's the problem?" Those pictures weren't "morally" correct but end of the day, they were within the current bag limits so therefore nothing was legally wrong. I'll say it again...there is no legislation against people being stupid and all the ranting and raving on here isn't going to stop people from being stupid either.

Fug this im going fishing.

Can anyone show me where this regulation is actually stated? Can't find it on the fisheries web site. Must be one of these things that fisheries expect us to know but don't actually tell the public. If fisheries expect us to do the right thing they should pull their finger out and update their web site where most people these days go to find current regs.

For me to target sambos I would also have to fish dhuy grounds. No barges down here. Yes there are areas that hold more sambos than dhuys but there is always the chance of dhuys being caught. The gear I use for dhuys is exactly the same as what I use for sambos, maybe a slightly different jig but its the same outfit. I think Adrian Barich is right about Jacko. Doesn't really think about what he saying. Bit of a dumb arse.

be careful not to catch a demersal. even with whiting gear

what if your just an aveage fisho who doesn't use forums, scan the net, or trawl the media looking for all the rules and regs. They would have no hope knowing what they could or couldn't do, what gear they're allowed to use or where a likely area is for catching dhuies. Some people just want to get out there and catch a fish.

As Seaquest says, saying 'go out and fish the barges' is irrelevent to those outside the metro area and probably everyone with a boat >5m. The fishing spots down here hold a vast variety of species at the same time. And i can assure you plenty of demersals are caught from small boats.

I hope the fisheries and relevent departments sit down and have a look at this. it looks like 'Rules on the Run' to me. Jacko should probably go back to footy training or something he's actually good at.

paul G

first off i havent actually been out fishing for months due to uni, so i havnt actually done anything yet.

 as for tuna i would be using lures, though i would be using  a rod and reel outfit that could be classfied as bottom bashing gear (overhead with hevy line and 15kg rod).

as for the kings and sambo's I know jigs work but in the shollow water that im fishing its harder to fish with jigs. you said "From what your saying you use a dhuie rig with some big chunks of squid on for sambos and kings Though you might have been smarter than that"

 Mate, when i fish with these types of rigs i tend to get a lot of sambo's and kings more so then i get a dhuie. And yes i use other rigs like a drifted mulie etc. point being though other methods including drift bait, jigs, plastics etc also have the chance of catching demersals. again i ask if you are implying that i simply shouldnt fish (targeting non demersals) just because I could potentially catch a demersal?

STEVE231

My boat cant take me out to the barges. its not as simple as saying go out to the barges and leave all the other grounds. Im very limited to the locations i can go and unfortanatly the non demersals like kings, and sambos are on dhuy ground. Not everyone has the ability to just go out deep to wrecks or barges that only have sambo's.

Not trying to argue im just trying to point out the other side of the coin with this regulation. Im all for the ban on "demersals" but that shouldnt mean you ban all other fishing completely even if you could potentially encounter a demersal, its kinda like saying ban fishing in general because you may potentially encounter undersize fish.

going for a dive this time of year and you take a spear gun with you. could that be the same. apart from giving it to a shark what else would you be shooting. just saying

you'd shoot a big Kg or Skippy if you saw it. Not to mention a Yellowtail King

but whast tosay your not shooting a dhuie. same as having heavy tackle on your boat fishing isnt it.

the confusion

cause the big believer in this debate went diving with a spear gun today

went for a crab today in mindarie marina, on a side note went jigging too in there as to not come into contact with demersals ;)

I think its the blokes who think its ok to go out and target demersals and then they release them all that the argument is about. To do that is blatantly arrogant and deserves to be knocked on the head by any means possible. To go and target protected fish and use the excuse that they get released and that they release well is BS as far as i`m concerened. So what if the fish are targeted in shallowish water ??? Your still doing damage . . . So what if they dived with a gun ??? didnt look loaded to me. . I`d belt a wobby (perfectly legal) if the chance presented itself, they good on the chew too. . .

My sreargun is for toothy criters.I think in the last year I have shoot ten fish if the and only 5 were dhuies .Im not into shooting fish more video and pics .I don't where a shark sheild so the gun is the next best thing.Jesse loves to shoot fish but Needs the nood from me before he takes the shot.jesse has done 88 dives and speard his first dhuie 2 weeks ago and its not because its the first one he seen .

yeah mate but still your going into ground that obvioulsy holds dhuies snapper baldies the works and same again we have to take YOUR word your not shooting them out of season no different to me having a big rod on my boat out wide so you tell me wheres the difference if i want to use my rod for toothy critters too. oh and adam i seen the news i read all about it nothing was stopping that happening(puts a good spin on people wearing shark shields hey)

The simple fact is that if you complain and jump up and down now.What will you do in a 4 month no take at all ban or a no take ever zone ban when it comes in.By the way mikestan i would take pauls word over yours any day of the week.No offence but i dont know you from a bar of soap and one of your first ever posts was to advise someone to park right on the edge of the snapper zone.Not a good start

you can take what eva you like mate im just saying there is so many problems with that new law that im looking forward to hearing about it happening. as for me i wont be out fishing too much other shit on to worry about it. but hey its each to there own and everyone is aloowed a comment hey. you take whoevers word you like mate i dont care. good research there by the way mate love your work.

Just because the season has closed for catching demersals doesn't mean that the boys and girls from fisheries take a holiday as well. If you are stupid enough to take the risk of bringing one in you deserve to have the book not just thrown at you but jammed into a very tender place.

No person who has any sense would take a ping at a dhuie or pinkie with a speargun just for the fun of it, just because they have the gun down with them for protection from bities and in doing so increase the risk of attracting them. Get real,when you're down over 30+ metres its a loooong way up if there is something trying to bite your arse off.

i can go to two spots one in 28m water the other 34 meters and drop down and all ill get is sambos one after the other 46 smabos in 3 hours ranging from rats to the thumper 24kg i got this year so yeah pe5 gear can and will be used.  now yes if you are out purposely to target demersals then yes throw the book at you but syaing that if you hacve certain gear on your boat you can be deemed as targeting them is a joke. I mean i dive and i dont have a spear gun with me all the time(omg im crazy). we could keep goign all night with these scenarios

 As a newcomer to this  forum, I enjoy reading about  what others are saying about the bans on demersals and suchlike and wonder if all that energy shouldn't be turned back at the department and Minister to see why they are not making a more positive attempt to solve the obvious fish shortages by encouraging more aquaculture of the desired species and promoting our schools to take on this as a project---I know of some local schools that are growing barramundi and bream for profits and why not snapper and dhuies .Why aren't the fisheries people trying to create some decent offshore rubble reef systems and get the big companies to step in and help out.  What about stocking all the dams and lakes around Perth with bream and silver perch etc to take the pressure off the ocean stocks and why not triple penalties for the companies that cause spills in the river that kill the existing fish there and then use this for restocking-----since he became Minister , Mr Moore has made some dumb decisions and I just re-read a letter I wrote after he proposed banning use of  cray pot winches by amatuers --that proposal lasted two weeks ----we need some practical  thinkers in the department -noy theorists who contemplate their navels and some positive action to solve the fishing dilemma ------lets do it and ask them to tell us the answers!!!!!- 

My first coment on this topic was in reply to his question can we catch and release,I haven't read the Jacko peport As It is a load of shit.I am concerned about pepole fishing there dhuie grounds hoping to catch a sambo because they got one there six month back .Wich is what some people are doing ,but because they are fishing for Sambos then all is good.Nobody wants to catch the friggin things when there is no ban you can't give them away.
Mikestan As a new guy to the site you are entitled to your say .Sounds like you are getting a little personal thoe.
As Toni said the only way is shut it down for two month No lets make it three..from the three mile all the way out .Shit i'll vote for that, no fish off any sort .

At first I was keen on a bit of catch and release because I thought it was within the regs. Now fisheries have come out and made it clear they want people staying away from dhuys grounds, I will just take a break and catch a few squid and whiting.

My biggest concern when this topic is brought up its always about metro stocks. I have fished Perth for 15 years and seen stocks get less and less each year. I think that the new regs will bring these stocks back but as for the SW which I think is a great fishery is getting smashed as we speak. While I sit back and catch a few whiting or squid the pros are out there catching dhuys. It's a bit of a kick in the guts and a complete joke.

Seaquest, maybe we should have our yearly fishing holiday in Perth At least the fishing is being managed.

Especially now there's only 1 Fisheries officer in Busso

in regards to banning fishing from the three mile?? where is the thought process into that? maybe you need to go back to a tinnie and figure out again your demersals are caught much much shallower than the three mile, and guess what "my" dhu and pinky grounds also hold kg, sambos, and tuna and the ban wont stop me fishing there

i wont be one to get personal towards you mate im was just staing that if i go out with some heavy gear i can be judged to be possibly fishing for them now whats to stop some one taking a spear gun out with them diving not being done the same way. your pic may not have shown the gun being loaded but hey it only takes a few seconds and that things leathal.  and yes i will send my concerns to fisheries about this becasue its very open to problems and as i said im looking forward to seeing this come to light. You all think im new to this sight but ive actually been on this site a lot longer than you think. Just maybe not the name you think.

ive actually been a mamber for over 5 years here just had to change my name a log details when i lost all my info on my computer. but welcome to you new comers haha ha

Cleary Stilly , Mikestan , judging by your post's, the pair of you could not catch a cold between you!! Where is your pictures of your latest catches??? NON EXISTENT!!!! .  Go and do what you want to do, and the rest of us will be confident that you won't be doing any harm to the fish stocks!!
LEAVE THE BLOODY FISH ALONE!!!!

at the end of the day fisheries are NOT going to try and prove in court that you were trying to catch demersals just because you have the gear onboard espescialy if you were'nt using it at the time and if theres a chance of catching other species there, they would be laughed out of court espescialy if you have lures and other gear onboard
if you were fishing on ground with big baits, hooks and heavy leads that's a different story and they could have a case but then some people fish light and could be fishing for demersals and say they were after whiting if they're stopped after all there isn't a cut off point where it becomes demersal gear over whiting and herring etc it's a personal choice.

to seeing your pics im sure there will be one phot just for me hey. over it all now ill do what i do you do what you do

i was not going to post on this as it has been disscused hundreds of times before,

but its looking like there could be a few pocket boxers out there(thanks lamby, just wanted to use that)ha ha ha

most people do the righty i would belive and the ones that dont, obviously dont know the rules.(i myself was gaught on this when it first came out, i thought the ban was for the sound only))

from experinace,  i helped a work freind out the other day that did take a jewy not knowing about the ban(they are new to boating)

 they were so excited to catch/tell me about there first size jewy!!! when i told them about the rules the wife nearly burst out in tears of the thought of getting caught/doing the wrong thing!

they honestly did not know. they do now.(hubby had the same response as most people did...whats the point in having a boat)

he now understands the rules and has changed his style already.

i have changed tactics and doing things i dont normally do. if i can do it we all can..

i am stubborn as hell and set in my ways. i fished all my life with broomstick rods and elvey reels, now i have the same amount of smaller,lighter combos i seem to be using more often.

but saying all that i do understand where the guys are coming from,

 my tackel box, comes with me every trip no matter what and that has all the bottom bouncing gear in it, including release weights, pre made deep sea rigs, dermersal jigging, so on and so on.

i suppose it all comes down to what you are doing at the time...

if your at the barges with a jig on your rod, thats self explanitry...

if your jigging in 30mtrs could be explained too...

bait fishing in 30mtrs could also be explained...

i dont think they could police it unless your caught with a banned fish in your possesion...if so throw the book at them and make it known.(name and shame)

we all enjoy our fishing or we would not even be on this site and all the disscusions

good/bad are all helping change people in the way they fish and hope fully we all do the right thing.

enough dribble now

you know how long it takes for a one finger typer to do this????????

4 classes of the good oil! 

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZing, been there done that.  Time to move on.