Kill or let live..... Round 2!!
I got this forwarded to me from my brother today. He was in the 16th group of forwards (ie: it had already been forwarded 16 times)!!! It looks like the latest attack ruffled a few feathers with the surfers down south....
this is what was sent to norman moore, troy buswell, and barry house (not sure who that is though)
Dear Troy, Norman and Barry,
I am emailing you re my growing concern regarding the increasing shark incidents in our immediate waters and what many consider a total misconception of what the real situation is in our area….I have been surfing and diving in this area for over three decades and have not experienced anything like the current status….
Many believe the experts are ignorant to the facts….. are probably not giving a true picture of the current situation.
My colleague pulled the unfortunate boogie boarder out of the water recently after her husband rescued the guy at Boneyards.(Bunker Bay)
The board rider sitting next to her husband said on TV that the shadow that passed under him was the size of a car….that’s probably an apt description as apparently they pulled a tooth from the mans body that supports the shark to be in the 7 metre range….I don’t think Fisheries or local govt want that getting out…may affect tourism a tad! Maybe even prompt Fisheries to look into the cull that people who spend much of their time in the water here are calling for……
Also I believe that Rory Macaulay says that numbers are static and they are not territorial….another colleague of mine was talking recently with a pro fisherman who was a Pro Surfer for a while….and he was reported to have said that at least 60 whites were known reported to be off Rotto….currently……a mate of mine was chased by two at Garden Island whilst surfing three weeks ago…as well.
It would be interesting to know what numbers we have in our area?
Macaulay also said that all sightings were not being reported….I believe that’s true…and surfers and all ocean goers need to do so to get some attention to what guys in our area are saying is out of control….its pretty much a sighting a day at present, if not every second day, and that’s the ones that are being seen!
Two Italian surfers at south point Gracetwon on Sunday….site of Nick Edwards fatality….. had a seal come up to them only to have a two foot high dorsal fin come straight at them…….a close friend of mine saw it swimming off towards North Point…..the other side of Gracetown which was packed with surfers at the time….that afternoon a local had to madly scramble onto the rocks at South Point to get away from a huge shark that was hunting a seal….once again a seal appearing to use a surfer as protection.
Surfers raced out of the lineup at Avalon in Mandurah on Sunday as well with a sighting of another very large White…..
A local paddle ski rider on Friday…another reliable source…..was out paddling at Gnarabup and apparently fell off, so surprised at the size of the shark fin he saw near him….the beach was packed with holiday makers that day…a recipe for disaster….we have had regular sightings here and around Margs since last Spring….and all mainly Big Whites….Boranup, Redgate, Lefties, Margs, many at Grunters…. and its on everybody’s lips……they are not moving on as the experts are saying…………………….. and many here think that there may be a rogue in the area….. at Gnarabup beach… two years ago a 4.5m beached itself and just eye balled the Pengiun swimmers…..same area where a local ski paddler saw an absolute whopper on Friday!! Not good…..it was not reported in the media even though a reliable media source was part of that group..
They do seem to be returning to known food sources…an opinion widely held by many surfers, refuted by Fisheries even though there is wide evidence of tracking individual whites who have set patterns of travel…..surfers love the ocean and what it offers and as a rule respect the ocean and all its creatures……surfers , who spend a hell of a lot more time in the water than predominately office based experts and advisors have I would argue a better handle on what is going on in the area and deserve the attention we are asking for……
I personally nearly fell on one early spring after pulling off a wave at Margs….it was approx. 3 to 3.5 metres with a piece of Tuna in its mouth the size of a big leg of Ham……I managed to get the attention of the other guys in the water and we bailed….there were multiple sightings at Main Break that fortnight and the beach was closed several times as was Lefthanders where Brad Smith’s death occurred.
The belief that they are passing through is “not” widely held in the area by many at all now.
Seal populations have exploded in the area and are found in colonies all over now…local fishermen are saying they have seen nothing like it and in the past they dealt with them as it ruined fishing prospects…..many think the seal population is contributing to the Whites hanging about…and many will agree….on many occasions now, surfers will leave the water when seals arrive, particularly if they are behaving erratic, as the seals were on the days of all three deaths have occurred to date.
All three attacks, Brad Smiths, Nick Edwards and the young fellow at Boneyards all had seal sightings just prior to the attacks, and as with Nick Edwards attack and the two Italian lads at South Point on Sunday, surfers have commented that the seals appeared to be using surfers as a decoy for want of a better term….
I suppose I am sending you this as further support that the government needs to look into what seems to be an escalating problem, which will probably only get some positive action if we are unfortunate enough to have another fatality….with warmer weather upon us…numbers of humans in the water is about to explode, increasing the odds of another attack……..
….I think if there was a survey you would find a heap of support.
I am like Brett Hardy , quoted in Perth Now recently by Liam Bartlett 60 Minutes… up until the last 12 months or so I was of the opinion that we have to live with it…..but there seems to be too much evidence that numbers have escalated as has their habit of being so close to shore and humans.
We should at least be undertaking a significant tag and satellite tracking/warning programme…..I agree personally agree that a cull is overdue….
With tourists and locals saying its safer to travel over seas or over east to surf, or even relocate permanently, that is a true reflection of the level of concern people have about entering the water in our region now and the potential impact on our are could be very negative.
To quote a friend who pulled Nick Edwards out the water at South Point after being fatally mauled….. “ a dog attacks a small child or an adult…you put it down. A bear attacks a woman….you put down the bear and its cubs. A croc attacks a human you track it down and eliminate the problem.
But a shark attacks a human and we just let it swim about checking out what’s on the shelf?”
We all look forward to your positive response.
Cheers
Craig
So what are everyones opinions? Any view changes from the last thread?
.thumbnail.jpg "Trout burglar")
Lamby
Posts: 3145
Date Joined: 04/08/09
Scotto, I wonder if this will
Scotto, I wonder if this will be another hand grenade post so I am hoping that some of the 'ladies' can keep their hysterics in check & stick to the topic. No doubt Sharks have seen a massive increase particularly GW's, in fact some of the other members on here from the SW will have their own stories recently. At the end of summer we had an absolute bus of a GW circle us off Cape Nat & if that happened to be the same shark whom took the young lidder recently well he didn't have a snowflakes chance in hell. That same day he was taken I was having a wave with a mate from work at Rocky's when we saw a seal behaving erratically, so the whole human as a decoy thing is very interesting.
scotto
Posts: 2470
Date Joined: 21/04/08
yeah mate
honestly not trying to stir the pot this time, but most on here know my thoughts anyway.
im just seeing if anyones opinion has changed from last time.
Lamby
Posts: 3145
Date Joined: 04/08/09
Lol "this time"love it Scotto
Lol "this time"
love it Scotto
hezzy
Posts: 1521
Date Joined: 27/11/09
[More whales, more seals,
[More whales, more seals, more great whites and more people in the water can only lead to one thing more fatal attacks ]
seaquest is on the money with this comment imo... anyone who has lived or fished around the south west for 4 or more decades will happily tell you the following info
1 commercial shark netting has been in decline for at least two decades , if you use the amount of kilometres of nett being set in the capes waters each year , it has declined
2 great whites , like seals sea lions and whales have been fully protected for many years now along the wa coast ,thier numbers are on the increase , their pupping season and southward migrating whales with calves are in full swing in the spring ......also the most frequent time of shark attack it seems on the wa coast
3 seal /sealion colonys that didnt exist there in the 60/70 s have sprung up and are growing in size and number all along the wa coast , most are located on rocky land outcrops next to deep water drop offs in the ocean .......known attack styles of great whites are to spear upwards from a deep zone to attack their prey .
4 tourism and the general surfing .boardriding /diving population has exploded all along the wa coast , especially of margs .....it was nothing like it is now in the past decades many more people in the water at all times of the year
surfers seem to like the same areas that suit great whites and seals etc , , but all of them for similar reasons with very different outcomes
5 great whites are migratory usually only staying or returning to set areas around the world each year dependant on food sources available .and the capes area and wa coast .... seals and whales etc fit that profile perfectly for them .....it aint going to change , if both their numbers continue to rise , as they probably will
any logical thinker would assume it will continue to happen ,
dont think you can kill all great whites , but id be inclined to not surf /dive etc , in those areas , that hold seal /sealion colonys near deepwater drop offs , especially at migrating or pupping times .....ie spring /autumn
jmo of course hezzy
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
crasny1
Posts: 7003
Date Joined: 16/10/08
Sure is a Hand grenade
As mentioned in another post I do believe it is a rogue or 2, that might be getting old, and humans are such an easy target. Mostly sharks bite, dont like the taste, but often the bite wounds are lethal. With the latest fatality no body found and that means it was a true target for a meal IMO. I love the creatures of the sea, and wouldnt ever want a cull, but I love dogs aswell, and in my job if a dog bites a human its going to heaven.
My idea would be to sat tag whatever sharks they can. Its expensive and difficult, but so is the value on a family member etc. Bloody hell if this continue we will have insurance companies wanting to know if we swim in the sea???? to get life insurance. I am sure there are rogues out there. And if we target them no problems, but dont just kill magnificent creatures.
Neels
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
championruby
Posts: 459
Date Joined: 20/01/11
Sounds like culling the
Sounds like culling the sharks will make no difference if they don't cull seals aswell.
The theory about the human decoy is interesting to say the least.
Adam Gallash
Posts: 15644
Date Joined: 29/11/05
meh
Can't be bothered reading all the tripe, if you dont want to take the chance of being eaten, swim in a pool. If your a surfer, its part and parcel of your hobby and without wiping them out theres always the chance of getting done.
Site Admin - Just ask if you need assistance
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
here here with you Scotty, I
here here with you Scotty,
I grew up in GW country and we back home in Fish Hoek, Cape Town have had a third fatal attack now in five years, but thats part of life.
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Shark-attack-at-Fish-Hoek-beach-20110928
You swim in the sea, you take your chances.
We don't wipe out bees that kill more than sharks, or other less evil looking things.
if you want my view, feed car hoons and house invader thugs to the sharks and the well fed ones will leave the swimmers alone....
ps look at this link where they show how bathers go on about their day to day business with sharks in the surf line... just another normal day at Fish Hoek Beach, Cape Town
http://vishoek.net/sharks.htmL
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
Toby Roe
Posts: 118
Date Joined: 01/02/10
Yeah cause doing the odd
Yeah cause doing the odd burnout really puts you in the same league as a home invader
. What the!!
Toby Roe
Posts: 118
Date Joined: 01/02/10
Yeah cause doing the odd
Yeah cause doing the odd burnout really puts you in the same league as a home invader
. What the!!
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
yes if it's outside my house,
yes if it's outside my house, you loose it and kill my kid on the front lawn...
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
WADRay
Posts: 301
Date Joined: 20/12/09
I have had the "bus" of a GW
I have had the "bus" of a GW that plays in the bay visit me several times whilst diving down here. He has never been interested in me OR the fish I have had attached to my gun at the time. This shark is def 4.5 to 5m as it has also been on the surface next to my boat in the berley trail. Definately the same shark (Pec fin markings were identical). I must admit while surfacing to him circling my boat/buddy who was fishing, I was pooping in my wetty...didnt take long to get in the boat that day
Twice I have been "attacked" in the Bay, both times the sharks were after the fish on my gun. Both times I did not see the shark before I felt it hit the line. Both times it was a mako. Both times is was irratic and circled me after the event.
Comparing our response to a domesticated animal attacking us and a WILD animal attacking us is rediculous. Also I didnt realise we had bears in Australia, and I know for a fact that bears in Oregon have gotten away with mauling people due to the game officers not wanting to kill the wrong animals. When you get a rouge take care of it by all means but culls and random "revenge killings" are a bit much.
In the last 10 years I have personally done more than a thousand dives in Geo bay most of them spearfishing. A GW has never caused me any grief. If one day one comes and tastes me I have made sure everyone knows that I know the risk, I swim with it being fully aware and I would not want anything done to the animal that nibbled on me unless we knew for a fact that it was a serial problem animal.
Lamby
Posts: 3145
Date Joined: 04/08/09
Dorsal fin 'ragged' on that
Dorsal fin 'ragged' on that one Ray? If so we could have the same bugger & definitely 5m she lined herself up alongside the boat which is 7m & I blinked many times in disbelief (width was also half the tub so that's one biiiiiig bitch)
I hear fisheries have identified 5 individual GW's in the bay at present, so how many stay & how many go? Sounds like yours is a resident
WADRay
Posts: 301
Date Joined: 20/12/09
Def a resident, ragged as in
Def a resident, ragged as in its tip is ripped off, if so probably the very same. has a bean shaped black dot on the bottom of the right pec fin. Is a monster first time it visited I was gilling a dhuie on the 4mile, I reached out both arms and I couldnt have touched both sides of its belly. Really was a magic experience.
November the 15th of the next year I was just outside of the bay (guess what I was doing) and he came and visited again. I have not seen him in a couple years in the water though...
Lamby
Posts: 3145
Date Joined: 04/08/09
No tipped ripped off but
No tipped ripped off but three distinct small tears in the back of the dorsal fin and some ragged (almost stringy) skin hanging off those tears, didn't get to see the pec fin. Magical sphincter exploding experience, well then yes.
I guessed it to be a girl by the size of her, didn't think the males made it that big & I am also guessing it's an old one at that.
JohnF
Posts: 2836
Date Joined: 07/07/10
As horrible as shark attacks
As horrible as shark attacks are, if you go in the water, unfortunately it is a risk you take.
I really think it is a tad arrogant that the some elements of the human race wants to kill anything that poses a risk to it........sharks, particularly great whites, are great creatures that I believe we should continue to protect. We are just an animal after all.....
We seem to be able to accept hundreds of deaths on the roads each year but cant accept afew unfortunate fatalities from sharks without the cull call..........I dont like either but its a part of life (and death)
John
Boston Whaler 235 Conquest......getting the flogging it was built for.
nackers
Posts: 341
Date Joined: 23/10/09
heaps more
heaps more people die each year from alcohol ,smoking ,car accidents ,stress ,disease ,all kinds of shit really other than shark attacks ,we all know the risks ,now im off for another beer and a durrie
meglodon
Posts: 5981
Date Joined: 17/06/10
Taging & Tracking
Does anybody know if Fisheries are still taging and tracking GW's of our local coast line.I think it would be very intertesting to see what the tagged and monitered Gw's are up to.The only bit of information I have seen on what Gw's are up to showed that they moved up the coast after coming around the bottom of WA and then took a left turn at about geraldton and headed for South Africa. This info was quite a few years old. If fisheries want to demonstrate to the public that their taging and tracking is a good use of public monies then thay should put out in the wide community the results of such activities.
Just a thought
krabman
Posts: 194
Date Joined: 12/06/09
SIMPLE!!
ENTER AT OWN RISK WE KNOW THERE R CROCS UP NORTH SO WE DONT JUMP IN FOR A SWIM COMMONSENSE IF YOU ASK ME,SO WHY GO IN THE OCEAN IF THERE YOU KNOW THERES THE RISK OF GETTING EATEN,AS THE SAYING GOES NO FISH IS WORTH LOSING YOUR LIFE FOR SO IF A SURF OR SWIM IS GOOD LUCK TO YOU,SHARKS DONT NEED TO BE CULLED WE JUST HAVE TO LIVE WITH THE CHOICES WE MAKE AND THE RISKS WE TAKE!!
deepwater
Posts: 1921
Date Joined: 09/05/07
Kill or let live..... Round 2!!
Im not going to get in to this to much ,i do feel for all the people how get in the WATER for any reason and have been eaton ,BUT IF A SHARK COMES IN MY HOUSE I WIL EAT IT ,IF i GO IN TO THERES THEY WILL DO THE SAME ,where is the bifference ???
im a X pro shark fisherman [wetline and shark net] from down there ,you keep restricting all of the fisherman what do you think is going to happen [sharks ever where] alought more people will get eaton,there is no dout about it at all
Rogue shark whats that ?? this time of the year sharks migrate past the cape every year and just because we all have seen a GA mean it is a rogue give me a break
sorry scotto you just carnt go killing animals that kill and mame people ,that is a think of the past ,if there is a school of them and you kill what people think is the one and it isnt do you keep kill untill you find the one that did it ,mate !!!
this is my 2 cent im not out to stir but this is MY OPINION
jeff
carnarvonite
Posts: 8668
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Seals
Have to agree with the rise in seal numbers down around the capes. You go back 15-20 years and they were a rare sighting and when I finished fishing down there not so long back, we would see them turn up regularly in Bunkers, Smiths and down at Hamelin while after salmon or sharks. The events of seeing or catching a white pointer hadn't increased in comparison with the seal increased numbers.
One has to take in to account that there are many many more people in the water now days so thats more eyes looking so more sightings of what wouldn't probably have been spotted before.
As for culling, forget it, how many hundred would you have to kill before you notice a reduction in numbers because of their migratory habits and after all, you're in its back yard and therfore fair game to it.
krabman
Posts: 194
Date Joined: 12/06/09
MAN MUNDINE WINS AGAIN!!!
JUST THORT IDE LET EVERYONE KNOW THAT MUNDINE WON HIS FIGHT TONITE BRING ON THE NEXT LOSER !!!
Aaron Santos
Posts: 300
Date Joined: 12/11/10
Everyone has their own
Everyone has their own opinion on this topic, and yep its a touchy one. I have to agree there are a lot more around these days.
Im on the opinion its time to start culling a few. There are to many around for my liking, and the value af a family member or friend is worth a lot more then a sharks life. Awesome creatures they are, but if they come close enough to kill one our family members or friends then we have the right to kill them first.
do you sit there and wait for a dog to bite a child before you do anything about it. why wait for a shark to bite/attack then react.
Thats my opinion.
Still trying to catch fish!
West Coast Eagles Supporter and Proud Member.
WADRay
Posts: 301
Date Joined: 20/12/09
o.O you kill dogs before they
o.O you kill dogs before they bite people? What if they never do bite? Or what if you pick the wrong dog to kill, Id love to see you explain having killed an innocent dog to their owner...Someone kills my dog intentionally without reason they would be looking down both barrels I can tell you :)
By that thought process then I should kill everyone that "might" run over my kids yeh :P Ima go get my shotty
Aaron Santos
Posts: 300
Date Joined: 12/11/10
Like I said thats my
Like I said thats my Opinion..
"Someone kills my dog intentionally without reason they would be looking down both barrels I can tell you"
What type of comment is that, Kill a human because it killed your dog, but dont kill a shark because it killed your family memeber of friend.
Seriously.
Humans are Number 1 not sharks.
Again Thats my opinion.
Still trying to catch fish!
West Coast Eagles Supporter and Proud Member.
WADRay
Posts: 301
Date Joined: 20/12/09
Thats your opinion, mine is
Thats your opinion, mine is that anyone thats shoots first and asks questions later doesnt deserve to be treated as a human. If my dog was to bite someone and I had proof it was my dog I myself would put it down. Its domesticated and domesticated animals shouldnt do that true. If someone killed my dog without any reason, then they are no longer number 1.
As for the we are number 1 attitude....My opinion is it stinks and is the reason we are destroying the world...Since the world would be a better place for every creature other then humans without humans maybe we shouldnt be number 1...
Aaron Santos
Posts: 300
Date Joined: 12/11/10
Your obviously believe your
Your obviously believe your opinion is the only one that should count, I gave my opinion and I'll stick to it. I really dont care how much you disagree with it. stop trying to cause trouble, your just ruining the thread.
If you've ready the whole thread, you would have ready,
"So what are everyones opinions? Any view changes from the last thread?"
So have your say in your own bit and dont turn on others opinions, you have no right to.
So like I've said twice before thats my OPINION.
move on.
Still trying to catch fish!
West Coast Eagles Supporter and Proud Member.
wombat78
Posts: 171
Date Joined: 20/04/09
i recon kill as many as
i recon kill as many as possible i hate the f*%$ers bring back the shark boats top written letter at the top hopefully we get to see the response
chris raff
Posts: 3257
Date Joined: 09/02/10
Tagging and Real Time Tracking
would be the ideal if it were achievable... a happy compromise for everyone...adults whom dive , surf , kayak or swim off shore etc know the risks ...I just hope these big noahs don't come in close and grab a kid playing in waist deep water ...
“Intelligence is like a four-wheel drive. It only allows you to get stuck in more remote places.”
JohnF
Posts: 2836
Date Joined: 07/07/10
Rednecks coming out of the
Rednecks coming out of the woods.....this will be fun.................
Boston Whaler 235 Conquest......getting the flogging it was built for.
WADRay
Posts: 301
Date Joined: 20/12/09
Huck Huck :)
Huck Huck :)
The_Wanderer
Posts: 735
Date Joined: 24/09/08
I hear the banjo now.....
I hear the banjo now.....
Fathom
Posts: 619
Date Joined: 18/04/08
Sharks are at the top of the
Sharks are at the top of the food chain in the ocean.... not humans, get over it.
squidder
Posts: 457
Date Joined: 03/09/10
How many
of our own do WE kill-leave them alone in their backyard.
Satelite trackers on as many of the big fellers as possible.
Reefmonkey
Posts: 711
Date Joined: 22/09/08
Satelite tracking whites
Good idea in theory, but whats it meant to achieve? probably about as much fun and effective as standing in the shower and tearing up hundred dolar notes.With the size of the shark population and given that research that shows they migrate across to the other side of the world, for every shark tagged there would be into the hundreds or thousands of sharks that will never be tagged.
No doubt there is a large number off the metro coast all year round, and the numbers increase with whale migration and snapper spawning as is the case at the moment, happens every year from september to january that shark sightings go through the roof. Wait until the first whale carcass washes in and no doubt there will be multiple whites following the one feed. Rouge sharks?? sounds spooky, resident sharks? fair call i reckon.
Personally believe sharks dont give two shits about divers unless the have a dead fish attached to them, surfers though mistaken identity, If you enter the water regularly you would have to be naive to think you have never had a large shark aware of your presence at some point in time and it's chosen not to bother, curiosity bites happen and unfortunately that ends up fatal for us, someone gets taken different story though in my opinion.
Enter the water at your own risk. But if more any more attacks happen this year will it still be acceptable to have done nothing? If numbers are proven to be ballooning around the capes then something should be done, will culling be effective with a population that varies its migration patern, I dont think so. something should be done though with baited drums or whatever has been effective elsewhere.
Shark attack where someone is biten and bleeds out is one thing but personaly think if a shark takes someone as a feed like the most recent case and in the case of brain guest the shark should be destroyed... chances are though the shark could never be positively identified
Dave J.
sarcasm0
Posts: 1396
Date Joined: 25/06/09
Tagging Great Whites
Is only partially successful, its a large animal capable of diving to hundreds of meters deep that is not dependant on the surface for oxygen. Tags end up being destroyed or fall off due to the pressure and because the animal does not spend all day on the surface you tend to get little parcels of information with very little idea of whats happening in between their bouts on the surface.
No matter what your stance is on the issue I reckon that who ever wrote this would have done themselves a big favour by following the conventions of grammar and punctuation. If you are writing to a politician and want to be taken seriously I would suggest this for a start.
crugs1
Posts: 131
Date Joined: 31/08/11
Strongly disagree with
Strongly disagree with culling these sharks, you just cant go killing something as soon as it's a threat too humans I mean to be honest we are more of a threat too each other than sharks are too us. If somebody kills another person do we kill them ? No we send them to jail , but each to there own this is just my opinion there has to be a better way
Paul_86
Posts: 1449
Date Joined: 27/03/09
Hey crugs1, i agree that we
Hey crugs1, i agree that we shouldnt cull the great whites but i dont like the logistics of a jail for sharks :p haha just joken mate!
flangies
Posts: 2542
Date Joined: 11/05/08
Remember 99% of all sharks
Remember 99% of all sharks attacks happen in the water.
scottland
Posts: 3038
Date Joined: 10/05/10
cmon jimmy
i support two teams eagles and whoever is playing the dockers
Dicko
Posts: 219
Date Joined: 07/10/10
No to cull
I'd say no to a cull...but if an attacker was POSITIVELY identified then maybe.
As for the the people who go on about leaving animals alone until they attack, How many here kill a snake in the backyard just because it's there???
Just goes to show there can never be any hard and fast rule, every situation should be looked at with common-sense
nana nana nana nana fishing!!!
crasny1
Posts: 7003
Date Joined: 16/10/08
Its illegal to kill a snake in the backyard
Found this out when in Mandurah I killed a ripper off a Dugite that actually went for one of my kids. Took a large 4x2 piece off wood and hit it from a range. Thought I would do the right thing and report to CALM (now DEC) and was told that what I did was illegal. No fine though luckily because it seriously lunged at my daughter and after that I just saw red. But if one of my kids are threatened swimming around the boat and A GW comes up to look, and I had a smokie etc nothing will stop me from protecting my own.
I love sharks in general and look after captures as gentle as a priced fish for release. Will happily take a Tuna for bait, but never a shark, but IMO this feels like a resident rogue that has got the taste for humans, and what we have to do is identify it and eliminate it. Then it will show what happens, because not all attacks fit that pattern, eg the boggy boarder at Margs was attacked by 3 sharks witnesses saw.
There is no simple solution to this.
Neels
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
Dicko
Posts: 219
Date Joined: 07/10/10
I agree
I agree that I would also stop at nothing to protect my kids too.
The reason I asked people is because I am a licenced snake catcher and will always try to relocate it where possible...having said that I think parental instincts would take over if my kids were in danger!!
nana nana nana nana fishing!!!
juan pablo
Posts: 30
Date Joined: 01/03/11
If we`re going to start
If we`re going to start culling sharks we might as we also cull snakes, crocs, bears, lions and any other animal that may take a life. Its a stupid conclusion to come to. The ocean is their territory and we should respect that.
Swan River Fisher
Posts: 877
Date Joined: 03/05/11
well if you go in the water,
well if you go in the water, just swim, surf, dive with a RPG or shotgun?
dd83wa
Posts: 169
Date Joined: 01/10/08
here we go again
The most archaic response possible to a couple of recent tragedies.
Craig needs to check his grammar and punctuation before sending half assed letters of protest to ministers as well.
Scotto, you clearly lack the deep respect for the ocean and sharks that most people that have spent time in the water have. I'm not sure what youre hoping to achieve?
Seaquest
Posts: 1131
Date Joined: 22/10/09
More whales, more seals, more
More whales, more seals, more great whites and more people in the water can only lead to one thing more fatal attacks.
How many lives will it take for peoples attitudes to change?
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
mate, we allow our kids to
mate, we allow our kids to smoke, drink, take drugs and drive fast cars....
yet we worried about the sharks....lol.
Even if we get one fatal attack a month, it's nothing compared to the OD rate in this country for kids and young adults on booze, drugs and fast cars.
ps cull drug pushers if you want to really save lives.... leave the sharks alone....
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
milsey
Posts: 1462
Date Joined: 22/08/07
I dont know many parents that
I dont know many parents that allow their kids do any of those things.
Paul H
Posts: 2104
Date Joined: 18/01/07
If I happen to be taken by a
If I happen to be taken by a shark, all be it please let the shark live - I fully acept it as a risk i take when I enter the water.
I also accept that I am a hell of a lot more likely to be killed in a car accident driving there (Maybe the death penalty for repeat drink driver's perhaps)!!
Why no mention of those very dangerous insects bees - Bees kill a hell of a lot more people than sharks. Better put bees on the list for culling as well.
My two cents
Paul
Youtube Channel - FishOnLine Productions
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbUVNa-ViyGm_FTDSv4Nqzg/videos
Jezza
Posts: 184
Date Joined: 25/01/08
sharks
Sharks are just big fish, we catch and kill big fish like dhu's ect and they die so why cant sharks be culled there just a bigger fish in the sea but the only difference is that they cause deaths. Does not make sense to me.
The_Wanderer
Posts: 735
Date Joined: 24/09/08
Killing a shark because we
Killing a shark because we are in its territory that seems logical…… It’s a calculated risk that people CHOOSE to take. As for spending government resources on culls and netting programs in my opinion it is a waste. Put the money into making WA roads safer….
Ben
Rod P
Posts: 725
Date Joined: 20/05/08
From first letter. Quote
From first letter. Quote "Seal populations have exploded in the area and are found in colonies all over now…local fishermen are saying they have seen nothing like it and in the past they dealt with them as it ruined fishing prospects…..many think the seal population is contributing to the Whites hanging about…and many will agree….on many occasions now, surfers will leave the water when seals arrive, particularly if they are behaving erratic, as the seals were on the days of all three deaths have occurred to date."
I think he answers his own question in his request. Seal numbers have increased why? What is the main predator to keep seal number sin check? Sharks. We already have a ecosystem out of balance and this is proven in his letter.
I don't like motor bikes on the road, why? Because they scare the crap out of me. But am i calling for a ban on motor cycles. No i exercise my judgment. If these guys are sacred of sharks than stay out of the water. His letter explains about many many shark interactions yet only two fatalities. I'm no expert but i guess if a shark, especially a GWS wanted to eat something as big and slow as a human in the water i think the fatalities would be much higher.
Easy if your scared stay out of the surf. More waves for me..
PS i should say i didn't even read the thread. They are all the same everywhere i go. Same group complaining..
Bodie
Posts: 3758
Date Joined: 05/11/07
Touchy subject. And im like
Touchy subject.
And im like almost everyone on here, dont know enough about the subject to form a valid opinion. This is what the letter written to norman moore might be getting at. Who does know enough about the subject to give out valid and accurate information?
Satellite tracking is a good idea. All shark attacks happen in shallow water, so the sharks would come to the surface at some stage which would set off the beacon on the sharks fin. An idea might be to have a monitoring centre setup which tracks all sightings and tags which 'check in'. All popular or main beaches along the coast are setup with a high volume speaker which an alert can be sent out remotely when a shark is detected in close vacinity.
Another thought could be more money put into research of shark shields, and working on a larger scale model which could be used at deterants along populer swimming and surfing locations.
Obviously neither option is 100% but at least it would give some people peace of mind something is being done, and would reduce the risk of the next attack, even if only by a small amount.
Dicko
Posts: 219
Date Joined: 07/10/10
Shark Shields
I think it is a good idea to come up with something other than 'kill'...I believe personally I have had situations where my shark shield has worked really well!!
nana nana nana nana fishing!!!
tailor marc
Posts: 2979
Date Joined: 27/09/06
I think we have to put
I think we have to put ourselves into the shoes of the surfers. If GW's jumped and took us fisherman off the beach or rocks would we think the same way.
I myself dont want GW's culled and i would continue fishing even if this was a risk to fishermans as its nature to hunt seals and surfers are mistaken.
Shark sheilds are the only other option i recon
My photography pictures... http://westernhorizonsmedia.wordpress.com/
Tigh82
Posts: 225
Date Joined: 04/05/06
A shark shield isn't going to
A shark shield isn't going to save you when a GW wants a nibble....... New thread, same opinions. Everyone is entitled to one and it has been a good read. I will be out diving on the weekend......
tailor marc
Posts: 2979
Date Joined: 27/09/06
Interesting read on shark
Interesting read on shark shield fail...
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/great-white-ate-anti-shark-device/story-e6frg6p6-1111115683913
My photography pictures... http://westernhorizonsmedia.wordpress.com/
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
it's called tempting fate
it's called tempting fate mate....lol
best shark shield is called Dry Land, you can get it for free.... lol
ps we don't run around calling for Horses to be culled, yet they have the highest rate of deaths of all animals in Aussie-land.... go figure!
http://www.medindia.net/news/Horses-Cause-More-Human-Deaths-Than-Any-Other-Animals-in-Australia-38951-1.htm
oh how we over react .....
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
hlokk
Posts: 4290
Date Joined: 04/04/08
Surprised no mention of
Surprised no mention of bees.
As for horses, is the answer basashi? Haha
Diving and surfing are both more safe and more fun than driving (commuting at least). For both, you're much more likely to be drowned than bitten too. More people drown each year than have ever been killed by sharks in the entire history of Australia. Its about 300 a year. Of that, about 20% were at the beach and 10% in the ocean (more for the ocean in areas away from the main cities). Even if it was 10%, thats still over 10 times the number killed by sharks. That would be a reasonable guess for a low figure of the people who drown in areas where a shark could attack. If you combine the beach and ocean figures, its over 50 times more people killed in the ocean by drowning than sharks.
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
yes I was also expecting bees
yes I was also expecting bees to be up there with wasps and fire ants!
Anyways, now we have a dermal ban, I'm going to live bait GW with hoon drivers. Anyone want to help me collect bait Friday night???
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
hlokk
Posts: 4290
Date Joined: 04/04/08
Perhaps may have not included
Perhaps may have not included insects apart from spiders, or anaphalactic shock due to bee stings got counted elsewhere. Depending on the source, it seems to be about 2 deaths per year from bee stings. Sharks are about 1 per year. Some say 2 per year (keep in mind, its an average over several years, not one bad year). I used the 2 figure when comparing to drowning deaths in the ocean.
One source said there were on average 8 SCUBA deaths per year (though that stat was a little old, and may be a little diff now - more people diving, but perhaps safer per person). Though, I am not aware of any deaths SCUBA divers by sharks in Australia who did not have fish/crays/abs on them (perhaps there may be one or two?). Certainly some close encounters though!
hlokk
Posts: 4290
Date Joined: 04/04/08
If you're going to send an
If you're going to send an email to ministers, then why ramble so much? I doubt it'll even get read by either three of them. Craig needs to learn how to do a dot point draft and go from there if he expects ministers to bother reading it.
As for shark shields not working all the time. Some seem to be under the impression that if theres one failure then they dont work, but to me that kinda sounds like saying seatbelts or airbags dont work as they can not fully prevent injury. I'd rather a 70% improvement than a 0% improvement.
Its not like they come with a guarantee though?
Ryan C
Posts: 1575
Date Joined: 08/07/10
gw sharks
this is a bit off the main issue but i think you should be able to fish for them at least!!! i would love to fight one on 80lb stand up gear!!
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
only if you in the water with
only if you in the water with them and it's a fair fight....
lol
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
Alan James
Posts: 2223
Date Joined: 30/06/09
Just think of the size
of the release weight you would need
Dicko
Posts: 219
Date Joined: 07/10/10
Sounds fun
Just burley up and balloon as normal and say you're targetting Whalers? If you hook a White by accident what can you do?
nana nana nana nana fishing!!!
hlokk
Posts: 4290
Date Joined: 04/04/08
You'd get smoked and spooled
You'd get smoked and spooled on 80lb for most of them! Seen that shark tagging show in the Galapogos?
And they're protected in that you cant kill them, but what about catch and release...
Ryan C
Posts: 1575
Date Joined: 08/07/10
thats it
im bolting in a gamechair to the boat and buying a 130 tiagra "whaler sharks" look out!! LOL.
Ryan C
Posts: 1575
Date Joined: 08/07/10
hlokk
that show you are referring to is called "shark men" and its off guadalupe island mexico , ive seen every episode!! cheers
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
1000kg GW will strip off
1000kg GW will strip off 1200m on a 130Tiagra and burn out the drag if not prepped right.
We use to have lots of GW fishermen off Cape Town and all resorted to a bouy on the surface to stop them sounding and tripping them of line.
http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/2011/07/22/great-white-shark-jumps-on-boat-stressing-everyone/
also they know to come and meet you face to face at times too.....lol as you can see by the article above..
if you want shark fun fishing, Mako's and Tigers are more game and loads more fun...
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
http://www.cliftonsharkfiles.
http://www.cliftonsharkfiles.com/tag/south-africas-great-white/
this chap Dannie Schoeman was the top of the GW shark fisherman in the 70's and 80's, but he later turned his back on killing them and fought for their protection.
http://www.sealine.co.za/view_topic.php?id=20088&forum_id=1&highlight=phoned
quote"
Guys, my Old Man grew up fishing False Bay on the Kalk Bay Deck Boats.........and today he still speaks of the the "Submarine" and "Spotty".
In my personal opinion, I believe that whenever somebody had an encounter with a MASSIVE GW in False Bay, this Shark was automatically identified as either of these 2 celeb sharks. I have seen many GW's in False Bay over the years, since a kid, but one stands out as the biggest.
We were catching Bronzies off Strandfontein, on a boat called Happy Venture. We were commercial fisherman, and there was good money to be made catching shark back then, and we targetted Shark specifically for a while.
The Bronzies we were catching were about 60kg average, they were big fish, and they were eating us up. We had about 1600kg between the six of us, and the 20ft boat was very low in the water........the sun was low, early evening. We were all vas, and pulling away on the handlines, it was very hard work, these fish are extremely powerful.
I had pulled my fish to the boat, and it was thrashing around. We only had 2 gaffs on the boat, and they were both being used. I decided to lift the fish into boat, and with both arms twisted and tried to lift this Bronzies head over the gunwale. All of sudden the Bronzie surged towards me, and what I witnessed about 1m from made me piss my pants. This HUGE GW, swallowed this Bronzie whole in front of me. The GW's teeth looked mechanical as it chomped the Bronzie into swallow size pieces, throwing these pices further down its throat which each thrashing move. The girth of its head was wider than my arms reach. The teeth were massive, set into this horrible pink colouerd gums, and water was running over the gunwale with the weight of the GW's head, and the boat taking loads of water.............I was screaming like a Girl (no offence to girls).......i was pertified. With one or 2 big thrashes, the GW's head fell back into the water, and around came the tail.......slamming into the side of the boat, throwing wave after wave of water at us, as it swam away, past the bow. The GW's pectoral fin hooked the anchor rope, and boat surged forward that we all fell over. And then it turned on the surface in front of us, and charged down the length of the Port Gunwale, rubbing along the side of the boat. The Dorsal fin was high out of the water, it was very scary ! As the head moved past the Transom, the Tail was still ahead of the bow. The boat was 20ft, which would make the GW about 26ft at least. Bruce Logan who fished in the stern that night, lost control and like Bruce used to manage all situations like that in those days, started screaming and punching the GW. It was crazy !!! The GW then did another turn around, thrashing the surface, and came at the boat again, this time ramming an outboard motor, and taking the prop and gearbox in its jaws. It thrashed around with the outboard in its mouth, and threw the boat around as if it was weightless. By now, all 6 of us on board were screaming like girls...........and pulling the anchor with strength that we never understood, pure adrenalin ! At this time, Nicholas the skipper had started the other 85 HP Yamaha, and pushed into gear at full throttle........The GW let go, and off we went, very slowly, we were overloaded with Bronzies, and had taken plenty water during this ordeal. All of us were silent, huddled in the middle of the boat, for about a Mile, until we all started laughing uncontrolably..........we had survived the attack !
If there was only 1 Submarine around, we had just met.......but in my opinion, there are plenty such GW's around, 7m plus.........and whenever they get spotted, they are thought to be either Spotty, or the Submarine " from rob billimore who still fishs the False Bay waters....
this thread on sealine is a good back ground of Great Whites that ruled the Cape water of South Africa! + more info on a legendary GW that roamed False Bay close to 30feet in size!!!
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
Ryan C
Posts: 1575
Date Joined: 08/07/10
ive seen the photos of
Alf deans 2664lb, clive greens 3880lb(disqualified due to whale blubber for bait) bob and dolly dyers 50/80lb records , thats what you have a boat for to chase the fish and not get spooled, i caught a 5-5.5m tiger on 80lb braid and a penn 16vs in carnarvon and at no time was i in trouble of getting spooled but i would like to try the power of a gws just once!!
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
google Dannie Schoeman +
google Dannie Schoeman + False Bay + great whites and see his info and history of GW catches in the 70's & 80's.
as for the 5m Tiger... NICE catch must have been quite a fight, well done
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
tailor marc
Posts: 2979
Date Joined: 27/09/06
Wonder whowill be the first
Wonder who will be the first to do GW shark cage dives off rotto?
My photography pictures... http://westernhorizonsmedia.wordpress.com/
Ryan C
Posts: 1575
Date Joined: 08/07/10
my
great grandfather was a whaler out of albany , and my nanna has the old newspaper article showing the 8m (26 foot)!! gws he caught during his whaling days in the bay at Albany, that was a big mumma for sure. cheers
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
try and find a book by Theo
try and find a book by Theo Ferreira called "Shark man" from south africa. he was top GW shark guy and has stories and pics of 6m+ sharks, including a legendary GW called the Submarine that prowled False Bay in the 1970's to 80's that took many a smaller shark when it was hooked. In one case they had hooked a 800kg GW and had the bigger one come up and take it off them like it was a sardine!!!!
both Dannie Schoeman and Theo Ferreira had their boats rammed by big GW's including Dannies boat once sunk by a GW they had on hook!!! Scary stuff...
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
http://www.jawshark.com/great
http://www.jawshark.com/great_white_recorded_sizes.html
here is some motivation for you...lol
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
Ryan C
Posts: 1575
Date Joined: 08/07/10
very interesting Tony
thanks for that. cheers
crasny1
Posts: 7003
Date Joined: 16/10/08
I agree
Very interesting. But certainly wouldnt want a nibble by any off those.
Neels
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
Dale
Posts: 7930
Date Joined: 13/09/05
I've seen many GW's out there
I've seen many GW's out there over the years and a fair share of nutter mako's too. But the way I look at this, if you go to Alaska, you might see an eskimo, if I drive up to the airport early in the morning, I might see a roo or 2. I'm aware of that and I'm ready because I'm putting myself in a position to see these things. It saddens me immensely when someone is taken by a shark, I dont know any of the victims, but I alway feel closer to them after the incident's, I dont know why, I just do. I can understand peoples reactions, they want their surf breaks back, or their favorite reef back to dive on. We just need to take more precautions. Electronic devices to keep the sharks away is the obvious solution. I wouldn't hesitate to invest in one if I still surfed and dived. I dont think a cull is the way to go. It's not practicle. I look out at Geographe Bay every morning when I'm home and I wonder what sharks are out there, I also look at the small patch of bushland around the corner from myplace and wonder if there's any snakes slithering around in there, the answer to both of these questions is yep, probably.
JMO
Cheers
Dale
"Just because you are a Character, Doesn't mean you have Character."
Mr Wolf
Dale
Posts: 7930
Date Joined: 13/09/05
Another fatal attack this
Another fatal attack this afternoon at Rotto, sad to say
Dale
"Just because you are a Character, Doesn't mean you have Character."
Mr Wolf