lost gps spots and geting home
Submitted by petermac on Tue, 2015-02-10 20:12
my hummingbird 799ci crashed on me and I lost all my gps spots , its up and working again fine, does any guru out there know how I can recover my gps spots or are they gone forever (not that I caught any fish on them )putting a compass on the boat now as we were about 70km of shore when it happened so well out of site of land , I lost all my tracks as well which I use to get home and wasn't sure which way was home , got lucky when a rec boat went past and I decided to follow him in modern technology is a good thing until it dies . Back in the day I did everything with a map and compass bearings, it was bit of a wake up call for me to not depend on my electronics . And yes I know I could have used the sun as a guide
D_d_001
Posts: 1522
Date Joined: 09/03/13
valuable lesson learned.
valuable lesson learned. Cant believe anyone goes out without a quality compass onboard. (would be akin to driving the Nullarbor without water or a spare tyre)
EVERY TIME I go out wide I manually calculate the reverse heading and tell the decky. make it standard practice...what else do you have to do when you are cruising along going out?
BTW I have two independent GPS's onboard
Edit: sorry don't know how to get waypoints back....I always back up mine.
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
your right
its a big big ocean out there and when you cant see land every direction looks the same
Swompa
Posts: 3896
Date Joined: 14/10/12
Got fogged once coming back
Got fogged once coming back from rotto one morning a few years back and had to use a compass. Couldn't see half a mile.
carnarvonite
Posts: 8672
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Wake up call
Take it as wake up call, the compass should be the first thing fitted to you boat after safety gear and well before any electronics.
Always purchased a good brand compass with every boat I've owned and spent the time getting it swung so if you have to rely on it, it will be accurate.
Tim
Posts: 2497
Date Joined: 26/09/06
What
What were you chasing out in nearly 1000m of water Peter. 70km is a long way out in your boat
Always good to have built in redundancy on the boat. Have 2 gps's and a compass on mine
Paul_86
Posts: 1449
Date Joined: 27/03/09
Wondering the same thing.
Wondering the same thing. Chasing those 250kg blues perhaps...
Vinesh87
Posts: 2751
Date Joined: 02/04/11
70kms out is a long way in a
70kms out is a long way in a dingy too!
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
hey vinnie
was chasing some cod it might be a dingy center / console but its a bloody big dingy 5.39mt rather be in it than some of the boats I have seen out there 70kms is only about 10 kms further out than south west bank not getting cocky on it has to be the right weather but it can do it on the right day
Tim
Posts: 2497
Date Joined: 26/09/06
SWB
Peter the SWB is about 30km from Point Peron. The 100m line is 40km.
Did you get any fish?
Vinesh87
Posts: 2751
Date Joined: 02/04/11
Should have bought my Trophy,
Should have bought my Trophy, Came with a FREE Compass oh and 2 x GPS units haha
silly
Posts: 382
Date Joined: 02/01/09
Doesn't the navionics app
Doesn't the navionics app work without phone reception. Pretty sure it uses satellite connection.
A must have... back up gps for just $15!
hezzy
Posts: 1521
Date Joined: 27/11/09
dam careless not to have a
dam careless not to have a good quality compass onboard your boat imo
it should be one of the first things you set up as well as a good quality anchor rope ,with plenty of depth on it
hezzy
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
i agree
I agree with you but I became complacent , will have a good compass on my boat before I head out again and will have the reverse bearings on a laminated a4 sheet from where I am heading
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
I was once asked to navigate
I was once asked to navigate a yacht in the fremantle - bali race. I said to the owner I wasn't an experienced ocean navigator. coastal, no worries. offshore, fine. ocean, I had no experience using a sextant, etc etc etc. I pointed out that after north west cape there was about 1000 nautical miles with no land bearings available and we jad to nake landfall at a tiny island! His attitude.... no problem we'll just make sure we have two gps units on board.... Needless to say, I didn't navigate and the boat didn't sail.
Fish! HARD!
Rob H
Posts: 5806
Date Joined: 18/01/12
how could you "not know which
how could you "not know which way to go"
In the metro area from that distance you could be up to 90 deg out and still find the metro coast or Rotto
Reminds me of a long time back in Coral Bay and was out on a mates charter boat with 3 or 4 little boats tagging us.
Listening to them on the radio, one says "Im heading home now" and takes off in a WNW direction.
We watched, amused, thinking he was having a laugh.
After 10 min Colin calls him on the radio and tells hims hes going the wrong way, no reply but curves round in a big arc and back to the east
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
you answerd your own question
Rob you answered your own question , it is easy to get lost out there , as did your mate
Rob H
Posts: 5806
Date Joined: 18/01/12
need to read again Pete,
need to read again Pete, wasnt my mate who got lost.
Unless it is midday, its not hard to find a course between 45 and 135deg which will find landfall with plenty of identifiable landmarks visible 15 miles out to sea.
Any smartphone will have a compass on it.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
ok reread
wasn't your mate , but he was going the wrong way wasn't he?
Rob H
Posts: 5806
Date Joined: 18/01/12
(scratching head)umm yeah
(scratching head)
umm yeah Pete, that was the point.
He probably didnt have a compass either.
Or didnt know how to use it
Or didnt know Australia was to the east
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
out wide
Posts: 1535
Date Joined: 30/12/08
Yep silly you can use GPS
with any smart phone. I have downloaded Navagon in my Samsung andriod and have used it in the middle of nowhere about 230ks east of the Shark Bay turnoff. Cheap insurance for $15.
So spend $15 Peter and you will never get lost again.
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
thats fine mate
that's fine mate if you have a smart phone but I are still using my Nokia brick phone I bought 12 years ago , I like to get the use out of my stuff
scubafish
Posts: 962
Date Joined: 15/08/12
Should not have lost them
Unless you don't have a nav card in it.To my knowledge it saves on the card if you have entered it in as a spot.What nav card is in it ?
As far as the other comments enough said lesson learnt.
Losing sight of land can also occur when a fog rolls in even if you're only 10 km offshore,this happened to me at Jurien Bay,came off the land and out to sea very different feeling on the water calm sea no wind.
Small compass in my tool/spare parts box.
http://img.gg/BQ91Sys
Rob H
Posts: 5806
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Neither cmap or navionics
Neither cmap or navionics cards save marks on the cards, in fact if you try to put anything on there it will likely corrupt and not work.
Some Lowrance models have a second slot for a blank card to record to though.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
scubafish
Posts: 962
Date Joined: 15/08/12
Why is it that when I Put a
Why is it that when I Put a mark on my unit on the boat and when I get home I take the "card" out and put it in my computer and hey presto its there.Does that not mean it is on the card ?
http://img.gg/BQ91Sys
Rob H
Posts: 5806
Date Joined: 18/01/12
without knowing what your
without knowing what your "unit" is or the brand of card either its hard to say?
With my Lowrance, when I take the map card out the marks are still on the plotter to view, just no charts are available
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
scubafish
Posts: 962
Date Joined: 15/08/12
HDS 10
Could be that the card auto syncs with the app on my computer.
Navionics Gold card & App.
http://img.gg/BQ91Sys
Tim
Posts: 2497
Date Joined: 26/09/06
Saving
You can actually save them to the card but you take a big risk as they are not supposed to be used this way.
If you corrupt the card by doing it they will not replace it and it will be tough luck.
johnno67
Posts: 408
Date Joined: 12/03/10
Mate
After reading your posts for some time I would never go in a car boat or on a bike with you Pete something always happens to you lol
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
that might be true mate
that might be true mate I am are scared up old bloke but hey I probably wouldn't invite you out any way but if you want to risk it send me a pm and we will head out for a deep drop
johnno67
Posts: 408
Date Joined: 12/03/10
Might take you up on that
Deep drop would be cool as I've been wanting to do it for a long time am looking at electric reels ATM will take my boat lol
uncle
Posts: 9487
Date Joined: 10/02/07
Were you never a boy scout
Always have a compass, be prepared lol
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
actually i was
when I was a kid I was in scouts and even had a pair of bata scout shoes that had a compass in the heel , do you remember them ??? bet you cant get them these days its all basket ball boots these days
Dale
Posts: 7930
Date Joined: 13/09/05
Yeah, with the animal foot prints on the sole.
"Just because you are a Character, Doesn't mean you have Character."
Mr Wolf
Paul H
Posts: 2104
Date Joined: 18/01/07
Compass should be mandatory
Compass should be mandatory (in case of fog/heavy cloud) but like you said only need to look up at the sun - would have to get it majorly wrong to miss Australia.
Youtube Channel - FishOnLine Productions
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbUVNa-ViyGm_FTDSv4Nqzg/videos
carnarvonite
Posts: 8672
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Smart phones
With all the talk on the capabilities of smart phones etc, they still don't dispose of the need to have a compass onboard if you are going out sight of land.
Hezzy mentioned a long anchor rope, seen somewhere in the regs is that you have to carry enough rope/chain to safely anchor in the depth you are fishing, what's the bet no one carries that amount when fishing for the deep water species that are popular now.
Paul H
Posts: 2104
Date Joined: 18/01/07
Drift anchor would be the go
Drift anchor would be the go then (not ness by the regs or to stop you drifting out further) - normal anchor "should" grab bottom before you hit land
Better get yourself a dove Peter - just don't buy one from a South African
Youtube Channel - FishOnLine Productions
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbUVNa-ViyGm_FTDSv4Nqzg/videos
Deleted
Posts: 6265
Date Joined: 26/04/14
Why are there so many
Why are there so many different types of marine compasses, what does one do so much better than another to warrant $300 difference in price? what brand are you all using
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
I have a good hand bearing
I have a good hand bearing compass that "locks" onto a bearing so you don't have to remember the numbers as you are transferring it to a chart. then release the lock and take your second bearing, and again for a third bearing. When not using it for hand bearings, it mounts onto the dash as a steering compass.
can't remember the brand but it's one of the more popular ones.
Fish! HARD!
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
suunto
suunto
Fish! HARD!
hezzy
Posts: 1521
Date Joined: 27/11/09
yes john , pretty sure the
yes john , pretty sure the regs state you must have 3 times the max depth of anchor rope you plan on being in
for me thats 200 metres of 10mm for the 4 metre tinny
at the end of the day it should be safety first , respect the ocean as shite happens regularly out there and you need to be prepared and on guard at all times imo
hezzy
OFW 11
evil flourishes when good men do nothing
duges66
Posts: 140
Date Joined: 07/03/12
North using a watch
Analogue watch - Aim 12 o'clock (top of the dial) at the sun the point midway between 12 & the hour hand is North.
Digital watch - using your knowledge of what an analogue dial looks like repeat above.
If by chance it is exactly 6 am - 9 o'clock is Nth
If it's 6 pm 3 o'clock is nth.
http://modernsurvivalblog.com/survival-skills/how-to-use-a-watch-as-a-compass/
Scroll down to southern hemisphere (disregard the twig comment just use your eyes and your brain)
Hope this helps.
There's 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those that can't.
crasny1
Posts: 7003
Date Joined: 16/10/08
. That sounds like you have
"I would like to die on Mars. Just not on impact!!" _ Elon Musk
Rob H
Posts: 5806
Date Joined: 18/01/12
best just buy a compass Pete,
best just buy a compass Pete, in fact get 2 and fit one on ya motorbike as well just in case
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
hahah
that would look gormless on the dominator , plus my bikes only go the café strip in rocky and home with wifey following in the car incase I deviate into the swinging pig pub bike always wants to pull in but I give it a slap and it will take me home sulking all the way home , bikes over 50 years old have their own personalitys
DTrain
Posts: 486
Date Joined: 10/02/12
Around Perth the swell always
Around Perth the swell always comes from the south-west. So you can follow the swell but turn a little bit to the right and it will take you back to the shore.
uncle
Posts: 9487
Date Joined: 10/02/07
how about a good pair
of binoculers,cant beat a compass though
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
Have you got a pair that
Have you got a pair that follows the curve of the earth? they would be a good pair!
Fish! HARD!
sea-kem
Posts: 15008
Date Joined: 30/11/09
I'v got a pair that follow
I'v got a pair that follow the curves on the beach very well
Love the West!
big john
Posts: 8756
Date Joined: 20/07/06
LOL
LOL, the old Tap Dog!
WA based manufacturer and supplier of premium leadhead jigs, fligs, bucktail jigs, 'bulletproof' soft plastic jig heads and XOS bullet jig heads.
Jigs available online in my web store!
uncle
Posts: 9487
Date Joined: 10/02/07
I,m sure that you could see
rotto or some landmark, I bet compass sales are on the up, f....k most cases swell and wind direction should give you a heads up
edit, why would the navy use them I wonder???
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
D_d_001
Posts: 1522
Date Joined: 09/03/13
would be pretty sure that the
would be pretty sure that the navy don't only use binoculars for looking for landmarks.
:)
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
Have you got a pair that
Have you got a pair that follows the curve of the earth? they would be a good pair!
Fish! HARD!
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
double post. bugger
double post. bugger
Fish! HARD!
uncle
Posts: 9487
Date Joined: 10/02/07
I'm sure they don't
wonder what reason they have them for
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
D_d_001
Posts: 1522
Date Joined: 09/03/13
I'm sure they have them for
I'm sure they have them for many reasons......navigation not being one of them.
sandbar
Posts: 704
Date Joined: 25/10/09
Bloody Hell!
No compass is like no EPIRB. Horrible situation to be in.
Shame about the co-ords if you dont get them back. I didnt know that when I bought my Navionics Gold Card I had 3 months to register it and the bloke I bought it from had purchased it 2months before me. After purchase and postage I had 2 weeks to register it ( unknown to me) so I could use it on my computer which will back up my data aswell and guess what... I'm away up north for 4weeks so no chance of registering my card. Now to register my card I need to pay Navionics a further amount of money, ( i think $100) to use my card on my computer. Lesson learnt!
Good luck with your spots.
sarcasm0
Posts: 1396
Date Joined: 25/06/09
units do not store points on the chart card
The chart card holds your charts and if you write to it or try to copy the data it corrupts the card(pretty sure they have a write protection switch enabled from factory to prevent this). If not everyone would be copying chart cards like albums. If you have no chart card only a sd card slot or two you are charting from the low detail base charts preloaded on the headunit. If you have two card slots or remove the chart card you may write or backup points onto a blank sd card. Have you tried repowering the unit and going into way points, routes and trails to see if the points are still there? Sometimes they turn themselves off, change icons or colors etc.
out wide
Posts: 1535
Date Joined: 30/12/08
How about this Peter
Compass for Android is made even more useful by the inclusion of anAdd Place function, so once you add a location of interest, you can navigate your way back to it by using the My Places tool. Just bear in mind that the Add Note feature requires a separate download. You'll also have the option to use true or magnetic north, or activate the GPS for location setting.
You can definitely argue that if you have an Android, you don't really need a compass application. Even so, there are plenty of people who will want Compass anyway, and it has to be said that in a wilderness situation, you'll definitely make more of an impact with Compass than Google Maps.
Outdoors types will definitely get a kick from this accurate and attractive compass app.
There you go Pete..get with the times and buy yourself a Andriod Smart Phone..never get lost anywhere on earth.
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
Until your phone battery
Until your phone battery goes flat....
Fish! HARD!
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
think i know what happened
think I know what happened with my gps / sounder hummingbird have a cradle that the unit sits in that supplys power , it disconnected itself as we banged over a swell I noticed it had died and gave it a push down and it powered up again , I think that some how that gave it a hard reset back to factory settings
out wide
Posts: 1535
Date Joined: 30/12/08
Won't happen randall
Something tells me you got the same type of relic [phone] as Peter Haha
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
Samsung galaxy s4
Samsung galaxy s4 actually.... and i have a proper compass on board that doesn't rely upon power of any sort
Fish! HARD!
johnno67
Posts: 408
Date Joined: 12/03/10
Sorry Pete
Mate to be honest with ya I'm think your a drama queen every post you put on is dramas most of them not fishing related I remember answering to you about sending money offshore to Thailand and advised you different as I live in Thailand six months of the year mention something on your post regarding loosing your gps your reply was probley wouldn't ask you out oh we'll if ya bored mate find somewhere else to vent it ,will cop a lot of flack from other members but sometimes someone needs to be told
Kyle Evill
Posts: 72
Date Joined: 21/09/10
aint nothing like a good old
aint nothing like a good old fashioned fishwrecked flaming! keep at it pete i admire your passion and the time you actually take to contribiute to this great site! if your ever floating around down south i would gladly take you out on a fishing / drinking trip. youd have some pretty ultimate stories no doubt!!
Jim
Posts: 1336
Date Joined: 05/05/06
Damn so my $11 chinese ebay
Damn so my $11 chinese ebay compass wont do? It seems to point north correctly.
Bend over
Jim
Posts: 1336
Date Joined: 05/05/06
I vaguely remember something
I vaguely remember something about radioing in and they guide you in via satellite in an emergency?
Bend over
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
Not via satellite, but it
Not via satellite, but it would be possible using a radio directional antenna that all VSR bases and larger vessels would have
Fish! HARD!
carnarvonite
Posts: 8672
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Radio Direction Finder
Not all sea rescue groups have RDF and only a few have radar.
RDF is good to locate a boat but cannot see how you can direct them in by using it as it only gives you a direction to the source not an exact location
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
Yes agreed, but if the
Yes agreed, but if the source is moving and in regular contact, the RDF will show up a bearing change in the target. knowing which way the bearing is changing the VSR can instruct the target to alter course left or right. The danger here is the target is 180° off course and heading the wrong way. Then you have to rely upon using the general weather conditions to make sure that isn't happening. (ie if it's an easterly the target should be heading into the wind or running with a south westerly swell etc...)
Fish! HARD!
carnarvonite
Posts: 8672
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Location
That all depends on your location.
Have been out wide off Cape Naturaliste and have had a sea breeze in for over an hour while inshore it is still blowing 15 knot easterly. Same thing regularly happens up here around the islands.
Still doesn't cover the need to have a compass that doesn't rely on outside power sources to operate and doesn't have a set of keys or metallic object next to it to swing it off
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
Yep. And a vollie who knows
Yep. And a vollie who knows his area would be aware of those issues and take them into account. and yes it is no substitute for having all the right equipment on board (not just a compass). I wonder who takes paper charts, chart protractor and a pencil out as well?
Fish! HARD!
Rob H
Posts: 5806
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Randell they can only do that
Randell they can only do that if the safe course is directly at the RDF.
If say there is a channel or obstruction of some sort between the RDF and the lost soul, the VMR will not be able to tell how far away they are, only which direction.
We used RDF's on a daily basis while longlining for each of our beacons
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
of course. The assumption I
of course. The assumption I make here is that the VSR are standing in front of a chart looking at the bearing and ensuring a safe passage.
Fish! HARD!
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
And that at some point the
And that at some point the lost soul will see landfall / navigation markers etc in time to take necessary action...
Fish! HARD!
fish 06
Posts: 164
Date Joined: 30/06/13
Does it not say
Does it not say, do not rely on this (GPS) as your sole source of navigation, within the first few pages of the operation manual?
dumper
Posts: 1027
Date Joined: 03/04/08
How much fuel does your tinny
How much fuel does your tinny use doing a 140 km round trip?
tim-o
Posts: 4657
Date Joined: 24/05/11
Hehe
Im guessin 80 liters. My next question wpuld be, how much fuel does the boat carry?
I am, as I've said, merely competent. But in an age of incompetence, that makes me extraordinary.
sea-kem
Posts: 15008
Date Joined: 30/11/09
Lol, I reckon he has a 44 on
Lol, I reckon he has a 44 on board with a hose running straight to the donk.
Love the West!
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
boat has
it has a 120lt fuel tank in it and actually probably uses about 70 lt for a round trip the 80 yammy is good on the fuel especially now I changed the prop
beau
Posts: 4104
Date Joined: 24/01/10
Did you catch any fish at
Did you catch any fish at least?
petermac
Posts: 2946
Date Joined: 03/03/10
nah mate
wife recons there is a sign in fish language on the bottom of my boat that says stay clear of this boat
Jim
Posts: 1336
Date Joined: 05/05/06
Is it possible to radio in,
Is it possible to radio in, set your epirb off and then they can track your movements, not exact positions of course but general direction? Its is good to know your options. As has been said having the correct gear is most important.
Bend over
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
epirb are intended for
epirb are intended for emergency situations. If you can radio in then water police / VSR can use radio directional finders to locate your position by taking signal bearings from different locations eg mandurah, Rockingham, fremantle.... to get an accurate fix for someone off shore from Rockingham
If your radio has failed, then consider flares if there is a chance they will be seen, or an epirb.
(assuming you need rescuing, not just guidance)
Fish! HARD!
uncle
Posts: 9487
Date Joined: 10/02/07
Ha ha Pete will be happy
Got some legs this one
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
Willlo
Posts: 1490
Date Joined: 07/10/11
LOL check yr sounder,deep
Call Sign - BZ785
Haynes Hunter Prowler CC
tim-o
Posts: 4657
Date Joined: 24/05/11
But seriously
If Im far enough out wide I cant see land, or the sun, and theres no swell or wind or current or no pigeons about to deliver a message and my Telstra phone has no bloody service and my electronics fail and the magnetic force from the bermuda triangle sends the needle on the compass that I dont have into a spin and the epirb is still in the shed cos its holding up my work bench that has a broken leg and the radio isnt workin cos im using the arial as an outrigger, the way I find my way home is to either hook up to a big tuna, their first run is always to the north, or a bass grouper, they will always have a sequence of 3 successive head shakes whenever the rod is pointing to south, or if you get a raise or strike from a marlin, it always means you must be trolling in a westerly direction so from those you can work out where east is, so really, if you head out that wide and you fuckin catch fish, you can always find your way home
Note- Do not rely on the above information solely for navigation purposes. At the time of publication this information was as accurate as it could be
I am, as I've said, merely competent. But in an age of incompetence, that makes me extraordinary.
jighead
Posts: 725
Date Joined: 03/02/12
Absolutely
Love your work tim-o. entertainment plus.
Rick
Posts: 1113
Date Joined: 22/12/06
compass
Buy a compass, attach it to police biting dog, put dog on bike and then bike on boat. That should keep all the problems together
PGFC Member
Dale
Posts: 7930
Date Joined: 13/09/05
Ya lost me there Rick
"Just because you are a Character, Doesn't mean you have Character."
Mr Wolf
randall df223
Posts: 6454
Date Joined: 08/08/11
It's a reference to some of
It's a reference to some of Petes previous posts
Fish! HARD!