No Ban on Demersals This Year.
Submitted by Seaquest on Thu, 2010-09-16 14:45
Just rang fisheries to see if I was allowed to target demersals during the ban on a catch and release bases. What a joke. The guy I spoke to wasn't aware of any ban this year or even last year. Thats right he wasn't aware there was a ban in place last year on demersals. So good news guys according to fisheries there isn't going to be a ban this year. If anyone can give me a contact number to speak to someone who knows what going on and not some peanut, would be much appreciated.
Cheers
Brendan
Colin Hay
Posts: 10407
Date Joined: 23/10/07
It makes you wonder what is going on
in government Brendan. I can't tell you how many times I have rang government agencies and they don't know what is going on in their own department.
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Tim
Posts: 2497
Date Joined: 26/09/06
2010
Been discussed before http://fishwrecked.com/forum/fishing-3
Have a look here at page 14 of the 2010 rules.
http://www.fish.wa.gov.au/docs/pub/WestLimits/westcoast_rules_2010.pdf
Oct 15 - Dec 15
Seaquest
Posts: 1142
Date Joined: 22/10/09
Makes you wonder that the
Makes you wonder that the main fisheries info line has a guy working there thats not 100% on the current regs. I have just rang Busselton fisheries and they haven't got a problem with me targeting demersals during the ban as long as I don't bring any home. The regs only say that you can't "take or land" fish not that you can't fish on a catch and release bases.
Albee Mangles
Posts: 985
Date Joined: 20/05/08
Peanuts, got that right..
Isint catching and landing a fish the same thing? If you can't land a fish, you cant catch it fullstop i would've thought?
So if you are catch and releasing demersals, you would need to release it before you land it, which would mean you cant intentionally bring one in at all? If you bring it up and unhook it for release, you have "landed" it, and if it goes in the esky, you're taking it? That's only my interpretation, but how i would look at it.
hlokk
Posts: 4293
Date Joined: 04/04/08
I thought landing it might
I thought landing it might be putting it on land? Taking it would be keeping it?
Either way if fisheries found you with demersals in your esky you'd be stuffed.
I think it would work as releasing them just the same as if you had to release a fish to being over the bag limit, or not within the size limits. No fisheries officer is going to bust you for releasing fish in those cases (even if you put them onboard).
And yeah, it would be great if it wasnt going ahead, but unfortunately some fisheries guys not knowing about it does not mean its not going ahead
(it also wont hold up if you said fisheries said there was no ban)
Albee Mangles
Posts: 985
Date Joined: 20/05/08
All comes down to interpretation..
And that's going to be the problem i think, basically we always say "landing" a fish is when it's boated, then you make the decision whether youre taking it or releasing it.
Who really knows tho, a clarification from Fisheries would be impossible to achieve i think. I guess with Demersals tho, if youre allowed to catch and release, what the point of even having the ban in the first place?
hlokk
Posts: 4293
Date Joined: 04/04/08
Yeah, but fisheries and
Yeah, but fisheries and fishermen may use land differently. It would be good to get some clarification on it though. I think there is a document that details definitions, but at the end of the day, the officers will be the ones charging you and if they arent familiar, you might still get charged (though should be able to show later that it was ok). Would be a lot easier if the booklet just said take and not 'or landing'.
Though, if you catch a undersize snapper, at the moment, i'm pretty sure you're allowed to 'land it' on board as long as you then release it. I dont think its illegal to target say undersize pinkies as long as you dont keep any (e.g. find some in shallow and catch on SP's), so could be during the ban that its the same. I'm sure fisheries officers will look at the situation and adapt to it. They can make a judgement if you were releasing fish or trying to sneak some on. I doubt they'll charge you for bringing a fish on board to dehook and release weight.
Pretty confusing whether they can charge you for targetting them for catch and release though. At the end of the day how can they prove you were targetting them though? Not really clear. Though atm you can target undersized fish if catch and release.
Though, it does clearly say in the booklet that if you catch one you myst release it as soon as possible. I'm sure you could argue that you had to pull it on board to unhook and put on release weight and they wouldnt charge you (unless you kept it on board for ages then went "yeah, nah, mate, we was going to release it right now, yeah, ey"
As for whats the point: Well, if the numbers landed are reduced then thats all that matters right? I mean it doesnt matter if commercial netters kill heaps of bycatch fish and dump them overboard because the only figures that matter are what gets to the docks right. (warning: previous comment may contain sarcasm).
Though, if they ban taking, but not catch and release (iffy on whether they do), then the number of fish taken would still be reduced as a lot of people wouldnt go targetting them. Also, some percentage do survive release, so if the same number were caught, more would be alive (any release beats a esky release). I wont speculate on the percentages though.
I would say the majority of people that go for dhuies or snapper probably wouldnt bother if they couldnt keep them though. On this site thered be a lot of people that do like catch and release, but in general population, i'd still say most wouldnt fish for dhuies if they couldnt keep them?
Lucky Tim
Posts: 2536
Date Joined: 28/11/07
I think you'll find "land"
I think you'll find "land" defined in the act as bringing ashore or something similar, not land as in land into the boat.
Careful with the hotline advice too, most of the calls are answered in a call centre from someone not experienced in Fisheries Regs and just reading off cheat sheets/guides, with only offence reporting or tricky questions forwarded through to a Fisheries Officer.
Lucky Tim
Posts: 2536
Date Joined: 28/11/07
here's the definition of
here's the definition of "take" in the Fisheries Resources Management Act 1994:
"take, in relation to fish, includes catch, capture, entrap, enclose, gather, remove, poison, stun, kill or destroy fish by any means;"
There is not a definition given for "land", nor does it come under the Acts Interpretation Act, where all definitions are listed.
Just1morecast
Posts: 917
Date Joined: 04/12/09
gees that's a poor effort
gees that's a poor effort from fisheries. Makes me wonder whenever i look at the selection criteria of becoming a fo i think to myself gees those people must be on the ball with rules and regs aswell as being quite smart. Maybe i will get in afterall:p haha
Forever learning with fishing
John the Pom
Posts: 182
Date Joined: 22/10/09
That's a shocker from the
That's a shocker from the fisheries side of things, you could have forgiven him not knowing the answer to the first part, but not knowing about the ban????
Could I just ask though - partly out of curiousity and partly out of lack of knowledge- what would be the point in targetting those species for catch and release when at least some of them have a risk of not surviving being returned?Wouldn't that defeat the point of the ban?
Paul G
Posts: 5215
Date Joined: 12/12/07
This is not having a go at
This is not having a go at anyone ,each to there own.Hell two months without targeting demersals Its makes me laugh how some go off about pros getting to fish over the ban and yet many recs still target demersals for catch and release,I release and take good care off my fish But there are still fish that will not servive the capture and release.If caught as by catch then I guess it cant be helped . But if your jiging for sambos out the back of rotto you not going to pull up to many other demersal fish .To go and fish your dhuie ground and use the excuse im fishing for sambos and kgs and I keep catching dhuies and baldies is piss poor. As far as I know it is not permited to TARGET demersals during the ban.
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Seaquest
Posts: 1142
Date Joined: 22/10/09
Paul have you ever seen what
Paul have you ever seen what a wetliner can catch in a couple of hours. I have seen guys pull 30+ fish in an hour of fishing. These guys take out whole schools in one day. Not to menion what a net can do. If you believe dhuys stick to one general area to breed each year then the damage these guys do is shorely irreversible. Recs can only take 2 fish out of a school so its pretty hard for them to have any affect on a school of fish. So I can't see how you compare the two.
Bodie
Posts: 3758
Date Joined: 05/11/07
Paul i 100% agree with you
Paul i 100% agree with you mate, been think this ever since this topic was bought up, but have bit my tounge.
Its a whole 2 months....its not 12 months. Personally I'd feel like crap if i pulled up a 10-15kg female dhu during the ban and tried to release it. Survival rate isnt 100%, its not worth it.
I was under the impression this time of year ws chosen dhu to known breeding patterns.
Now i a question i know no one will be able to answer, but if you bought a big female up full of eggs, she may survive, but will her load still be in the same condition?
Why risk it, why increase the risk of more fish dieing for no reason.
Talking about the pros being able to catch fish blah blah blah has nothing to do with it. Its childish to say and believe 'Well the pro's are still doing it so so can i'
Thats like saying a kid steals something from the shop and gets caught and turns around saying 'well he did it too but he got away with it'
Seaquest
Posts: 1142
Date Joined: 22/10/09
Wake up, the pros have
Wake up, the pros have everything to do with it. Look at the big picture It all about catch allocation. Thats why we have a ban in the first place. If recs had a bigger slice of the pie we wouldn't have a ban. Its OK for you to say that the pros have nothing to do with it because in the metro they are banned from fishing in less than 200m. Have you ever thought why this ban on the pros is in place. Because if they didn't metro stocks would have vanished. But down here while I'm not fishing during the ban the pros are out there fishing the same ground I normally fish. How would you like it if you new the pros where fishing your spots while the ban was on?
Seaquest
Posts: 1142
Date Joined: 22/10/09
Definition of Land
Just spoke to someone else at Busselton fisheries. He defined "land" as to take out of their natural environment (eg - to have on your boat). He said that they would discourage people from targeting demersals during this time and felt if someone was deliberately targeting dhuys that they would take action. So looks like I got it wrong and I will just have to target a few sambos during the ban.
It was good to finally talk to someone who not only knows whats going on but actually was interested in what he does. He did agree that banning us and letting the pros work during this time wasn't the best scenario. Also a couple of other things he cleared up for me is that the shark fisherman(net fisherman) have a ban from August 15th - Oct 15th. (because it is whiskery and gummy spawning times). Wetliners have no ban but are limited to the number of days per year they are allowed to fish. A wetliner licence may only be for 20 days a year but one boat is allowed to have several licences.
Albee Mangles
Posts: 985
Date Joined: 20/05/08
Onya brendon
Thanks for the clarification. Good onya for following it up, instead of just speculating and dribbling sh!t like most of us...
Bodie
Posts: 3758
Date Joined: 05/11/07
Last comment not targeted at
Last comment not targeted at you mate, just stipulating a general opinion.
Did you mention to the fisheries person in busselton the response you got from calling the info line? what was their response if you did?
Just1morecast
Posts: 917
Date Joined: 04/12/09
Im with you Paul, explained
Im with you Paul, explained it perfect. Sambo jigging for us when the bans on and no bottom fishing
Forever learning with fishing
JohnF
Posts: 2841
Date Joined: 07/07/10
SAMBO JIGGING IN SMALL BOATS
OK Fellas, it seems we are all now in general agreement we can not (and in my opinion should not) target demersals during the ban.
So........attention turns to the mighty Sambo's, with a probably stop off at the favourite whiting spot on the way home for a feed.
I have a 5.4 m trailcraft with 90 hp, perfect for most of my fishing needs including sorties to Rotto and out to the 70 m mark, but just a bit small for me to feel comfortable to take out to the barges without some back-up.
Is anyone else in the same "boat" and interested in teaming up a couple of similar sized boats to convoy out to the barges once the ban comes in. The Traily is certainly capable of getting there and back, but VHF range is not reliable and without twin motors, better to be safe than sorry. With another boat, I have no concerns as worste comes to worste, you can bail out of your boat and let her sink and jump on the sister ship.....obvioulsy with Stella in hand!
I launch out of Hillaries, sit on around 24 knots in reasonable weather and have all barges plus about 7 other much less known wrecks I have found in the old mans 34 ft Kevlacat locked in the Trailys GPS ....anyone else keen to link up?
John
Contender 25T - good hezza boat
Goodz
Posts: 2332
Date Joined: 20/07/09
Yep I'm keen.... only
Yep I'm keen.... only problem is... I dont have a boat! haha.. though I think you'll find there'll be plenty of other boats already out there anyway.
Interested to hear about these "less known wrecks".. mmmm
Cammos
Posts: 606
Date Joined: 30/06/09
Assuming I still have a
Assuming I still have a boat, I am dead keen to go and try these wrecks out. No experience jigging but willing to spend money and learn.
Lamby
Posts: 3145
Date Joined: 04/08/09
Yep its in the pipeline
Yep its in the pipeline fellas, a trip(s) were going to be organised especially when SaltigaX arrived from South Oz. Plan was to get a crew and convoy over with a trip to the Quokka Arms for a few frosty ales. I will start a thread but its going to be dependent on weather etc. and now for me coming up from down south (but hey if the winds are sweet I am there) We did many trips in the 5.4m Westerncraft last year no probs at all but paid good attention to the weather charts.
biggerfish
Posts: 671
Date Joined: 02/03/09
Sambos and kgs for me some
Sambos and kgs for me some people just don't like rules I call it arrogant
Play hard fish harder
Seaquest
Posts: 1142
Date Joined: 22/10/09
Not arrogant mate. Just not
Not arrogant mate. Just not willing to give up the fight which is definately not finished yet. If we accept the new rules to easily and give up then its only a matter of time before we get hit again with more hasher regs.
Paul G
Posts: 5215
Date Joined: 12/12/07
Brandon Im not comparing the
Brandon Im not comparing the two at all the law allows them to fish,And Yes I do now the damage they do as from when I left school I fished on net boats catching hindreds of sharks a day. Droplines and killed thousands off fish, as you said 30-40 dhuies some days and as pro fishers the law allowed us to do it. This was our job and we did not break any laws doing it. I know to well the damage these guys do .The pros will one day have to stop fishing ..I do not have a problem with anybody catching there bag limit every trip as we catch our bag most trips.But from October 15th to December 15th there is a demersal ban for recs and that mean I and many others will not target these fish .Anyone chosing to fish through the ban and release there fish thats there chose im am not telling you what you can or can't do.As you sound like you look after you fish and try too release in good condition .
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Seaquest
Posts: 1142
Date Joined: 22/10/09
Pro Fisherman
Not trying to knock pros personally. My grandad was a pro and like you said they only do what the law allows them and they are there running a business to support there families. I am annoyed with the government for allowing the pros to still be able to take dhuys as a direct catch or so called bycatch. Dhuys are the real threatened species out of the demersals and the main target for most boaties in the metro, sw and mid west. Imagine fishing without them. All we hear now is fisheries going on about catch allocation. Sooner or later theres not going to be enough to be shared between the pros and recs. Why not ban the pros from catching dhuys and compensate them for the income they would loose from not beening able to take dhuys. Dhuys aren't a necessity for our markets. At $50+/kg its a select few who buy it. Plenty of other fish out there thats just as nice to eat. I think dhuys should be left for the recs. It would be impossible to have no bycatch of dhuys from pro fishing but they still could make it harder for them to class fish as bycatch. If the current bag limits are kept and the pros are banned I think the dhufish stocks would come back in a big way. This is just my view and I'd imagine the it would be pretty expensive to pay out the pros, but how much will the government spend on this problem away.
grayzeee
Posts: 2283
Date Joined: 09/07/09
i agree with you paul. spot
i agree with you paul. spot on.
why would you go to fish your dhuey grounds when you know full well you can't take any. you are possibly killing those fish from your own grounds for no good reason , and if you do happen to jag that magic 20+ kilo fish of a lifetime , then you've got to try and release the old girl while she's trying to spawn, bag blown.
sorry but it's common sense to me.
If I spent half as long fishing , as I do reading this bloody forum , I'd be twice the fisherman I am.
biggerfish
Posts: 671
Date Joined: 02/03/09
Exactly grayzee well said
Exactly grayzee well said
Play hard fish harder
fisho-ron
Posts: 2539
Date Joined: 26/09/09
might as well chuck my 2
might as well chuck my 2 cents worth in as well.
boats are not all about fishing,
come the ban is when we spend most of our time at rotto/garden i /river, day/night, just laysing back injoying the sun and the senery if you get my drift
.
also for the wifes who do not like fishing(theres something wrong with them) get some time out from the norm and relax on the island now and then.
drink a bit of piss and cook up a feed on the boat and have some good bullshit storys on what i have gaught this year(greatly exaggerated of course).
take some pics of your mates passed out on the marlin board and rub it in for the next year.
by the time you are sick of that its time to fish again!
Rick
Posts: 1119
Date Joined: 22/12/06
Trolling Time
The ban for me, gives me more motivation to spend some long hours trolling. I know there are some good fish out there,and YFT is the bucket fish at the moment. Trolling around 9 knots means the 585 is giving me some great bottom definition. Mark all these spots and back we go after the 15th Dec....
PGFC Member
Blackknightz
Posts: 55
Date Joined: 29/08/08
With the Ban
In place I do believe that we should all give them a rest. It is a big worry for those to think that catch and release is ok as we all know that there is evidence to say that Dhu in particular don't release well. Why would you as mentioned before want to go and hit your spots to catch the fish and hopefully release them to live another day. There is a real push to use plastics over here now and as we all know they are producing great results and even better fun as usually it is alot lighter gear but most boats are catching more and more once there techniques are perfected and although its great to hear the fish are getting released, what number are surviving the ordeal.
I agree with Fisho-ron there are many things that boats can be used for and all of which are fun and better then any good day at work. Personally I like all of you are a very keen fisherman and I will be putting the time in to look for new ground, couple of skirts out the back(lures that is) and move around slowly and work different areas to get a real good handle of the area.
Just on another note a month ago I handed in a couple of Dhu frames to the fisheries and last week I got a call to say that the results will be getting posted out to me which will include information about my catch and a T-shirt of some kind. It was great to hear from them and even better to get the results, I will keep you posted on the outcome.
Shorty
Posts: 1549
Date Joined: 10/05/08
What makes it so hard is you
What makes it so hard is you can get a different answer from each fisherys officer each time,,
Just last month a yakker was saying he can't wait till the Harvey dam opens, the Harvey tourist mob says its open all year around for fishing, a fisheries bloke said no not until Sept 1st (from memory)then another one said yes all year around but put trout back tho,,
Now we get one fisherys telling theres no dermasal ban to perhaps a dozen,100's of folks ? and they go to court because of misinformation,,its a bit of a worry when the fisherys can't give you the correct answer or 3 different answers,,
grayzeee
Posts: 2283
Date Joined: 09/07/09
good idea rick same on the
good idea rick
same on the yft too.
If I spent half as long fishing , as I do reading this bloody forum , I'd be twice the fisherman I am.
seasport
Posts: 115
Date Joined: 15/08/10
www.fish.gov.au for all the
www.fish.gov.au for all the information on fishing regulations. Nobody should rely on any information verbally obtained by anyone, you need to research it yourself, read it and if you cannot interpret it, get a lawyer
We supply free fisheries information to the public via our shop and are instructed by the fisheries not to interpret it and pass comment to customers, there for we are not held responsible for miss interpret
Bluetonic
Posts: 1147
Date Joined: 09/01/08
Hmmmm! went through all this
Hmmmm! went through all this last year!
Blue Sky, Blue Water, Bluetonic!