query re: dual batteries for car and boat
Submitted by scottbec on Wed, 2010-01-27 17:39
Hi guys,
Just looking into getting a dual battery setup for the 4x4 and was thinking of maybe doing the same for the boat.
Anyone else done this and got any comments??
What sort of cost were you looking at to get it done?
Any advice or comments would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Scott
iana
Posts: 652
Date Joined: 21/09/09
Two flat batteries are just as good as one flat battery
Hi Scot,
I have been pondering over the same thoughts for my boat, seems to me that it is more important to know that your battery (Single or dual) is in good condition, and that they are fully charged when you go out.
Maybe you need to state if you have any special needs for these batteries, i.e. camping and using the vehicle power supply to run fridges, tv etc, on the boat same thing, or maybe lots of night fishing.
I met a fellow out from Carnac island, dual batteries and solar power for charging, both batteries were flat. I handed over my spare battery and moved off while he got his engine up and running. I would say the cells in his battery were stuffed, so dual batteries and solar power did him no good at all.
Put a bit more info on your power needs up. I'm sure there is a wealth of knowledge out there.
Feral
Posts: 1508
Date Joined: 01/11/06
i run dual setup in the boat
i run dual setup in the boat but thats what i class as standard ... if your running sounders and gps units all day with the motors getting started and shut off before they have time to rechange then dual is the way to go (eg. drifring and resetting the drift)
im just installing a triple set up in the 4x4 as we speak so i can run my waeco freezer at exmouth a little better (the boat just got brand new ac delco batteries and the old ones are going in the 4x4)
nackers
Posts: 341
Date Joined: 23/10/09
definatly recomended
if ur runnin long distances out to sea or isolated areas camping and buy good quality batteries like N70zzs
scottbec
Posts: 242
Date Joined: 18/01/07
thanks guys
pretty similair use to what you guys have said above - camping on the beach and running fridges, etc and also running sounder and GPS on boat and stopping and starting quite a bit so not much time to charge...
any ideas on cost??
damo6230
Posts: 2029
Date Joined: 07/06/08
dual battery
for my boat @ 4.6 I was advised to keep the single battery and look after it and if I really needed the second just carry it as a spare to swap it out if needed......
as for my Hilux I have a dual with a solinoid as I was advised this was the best settup......my second battery sits in the tray as I have a single cab with canvas canopy. It's a deep cycle and as above regular maintenance will provide longevity. I have a HF radio/engel/spotlighs/ERPS and never had any issues with the battery system.
The only problem I ever encountered when using 4wd (mostly work as i worked remote in the NT) was working in the summer out west of Alice and the heat would melt the battery....so just a matter of watch the temp and avoiding using the car in the middle of the day..otherwise bury the battery in the sand to cool it down.
nackers
Posts: 341
Date Joined: 23/10/09
cost
na scottbec been a while since havin mine done cant remember wot th cost was
barneyboy
Posts: 1392
Date Joined: 08/01/09
it would cost
the price of 2 batteries and a parallel wire wouldnt it??
FEEEISH ONNN!!!
mako magic
Posts: 5785
Date Joined: 03/08/05
dont forget the isolator
dont forget the isolator switch
Steve Richards
Posts: 53
Date Joined: 10/10/07
dual batts
Hi Scottbec, I looked at the dual batt system for my boat and it was suggested to me that one of the portable power packs was a cheaper and simpler way to go. I havent had the need to use it yet [touch wood] and i use the all the usual electrics on my boat. It cost me $95 and is a 900amp pack, I just keep it on trickle charge at home until I go out.
wadetolley
Posts: 2258
Date Joined: 27/06/08
Trickle charge
Guy i work with said he has a solar trickle charger for his boat batteries. They are ment to be pretty cheap, anyone on her used one? He just leaves it hooked up when the boat is at home, said running a small trickle thru your battery is good for it..his batteries are 6 years old.
sarcasm0
Posts: 1396
Date Joined: 25/06/09
Trickle charge - What is it?
My old man has been mucking around with dual batteries on their yacht and 4wd for years. When they go away up north they use the boat as a caravan on the way and when they get to their destination, sometimes theyre out there for 2-3 weeks at a time.
He has a pet hate about trickle charging and doesnt believe it is good for the long term health of the battery. Can someone explain to me what trickle charging is? What is the difference between using a car charger?
After experimenting with wind generators, solar power and building an orlov rotor for a wave action power, I believe he has settled on Solar power and good quality batteries. He now uses an array of gel cel batteries (dont ask me what they are, theyre red and about 10cm w x 25cm l x 15cm high) He has several banks in different locations on the yacht. I have two of them under the seat of the bathtub boats and they are epic. I used to charge up the car battery every 2-3 trips after using spotlight/sounder/running lights and now they would last nearly 5 times that amount.
wadetolley
Posts: 2258
Date Joined: 27/06/08
Trickle charge
Bit of info for you mate..
Trickle charging, or float charging, means charging a battery at a similar rate as its self-discharging rate, thus maintaining a full capacity battery. Most rechargeable batteries, particularly nickel-cadmium batteries or nickel metal hydride batteries, have a moderate rate of self-discharge, meaning they gradually lose their charge even if they are not used in a device. Care must be taken, however, that if a battery regulator is not employed, the charge rate is not greater than the level of self-discharge, or overcharging and possible damage or leakage may occur.
Float charger
The difference between a float charger and a trickle charger is that the float charger has circuitry to prevent overcharging. It senses when the battery voltage is at the appropriate float level and temporarily ceases charging; it maintains the charge current at zero or a very minimal level until it senses that the battery output voltage has fallen, and then resumes charging. IMPORTANT: The appropriate float voltage varies significantly with the construction of the battery and the ambient temperature. With the appropriate voltage for the battery type and with proper temperature compensation, a float charger may be kept connected indefinitely without damaging the battery. With a 6-cell (nominal 12V) lead-acid battery the correct float voltage drops by about 0.1V for a 5°C rise in ambient temperature. Not compensating for this will shorten battery life either by over- or under-charging.
[edit] Trickle chargerA trickle charger, on the other hand, will charge no matter whether the battery is fully charged or not, so it needs to be connected and disconnected periodically. If left in place too long, it will eventually boil the electrolyte out of the cells or damage the plates. Trickle chargers will work to keep the battery charged, if used once a month or so for a day or two, but the float chargers can be left connected indefinitely without potential harm to the battery.
[edit] ExampleFor example, a 24 volt battery pack, comprising twelve 2-volt flooded lead-acid cells, which has been deeply discharged, would normally be restored by a boost charge of approximately 2.4 volts per cell for a short time (perhaps around 72 hours). Once the collective cell voltage reaches a surface charge of 28.8 volts (2.4 volts x 12 cells), the charge rate would be switched to the sustained lower float-charging rate of typically 2.23 volts.
Eventually, with the Boost charge removed, the surface charge will diminish slightly and the battery-bank voltage will stabilise at a preset float voltage, in the case of the example above to approximately 27 volts (2.23 volts x 12).
[edit] Charging rateCharging rates for a trickle charge are very low. For example, if the normal capacity of a battery is C (ampere-hours), the battery may be designed to be discharged at a rate of C/8 or an 8-hour rate. The recharge rate may be at the C/8 rate or as fast as C/2 for some types of battery. A float or trickle charge might be as low as C/300 ( a 300-hour discharge rate) to overcome the self-discharge. Allowable trickle charging rates must conform to the battery manufacturer's recommendations.
[edit] EconomyBerniek
Posts: 7
Date Joined: 05/10/09
The CTEK range of battery
The CTEK range of battery chargers do the above automatically. There are other brands as well.
I have 2 batteries & isolator switch 1/2/both. On the run out to the fishing ground I run on both. This charges both batteries. Once there I stop the engine & switch to one or the other battery. I reserve the other as fully charged for starting if needed. Each trip I change from battery 1 & 2 as the working battery.
There is lots of information out there on the internet about how to charge batteries, but it is hard to wade through thee opinion and fact also hard to find what is current & what is 15years old.
I have always had dual batteries in all my boats. Radios are no good in emergency without battery power to drive them.
BUT there is no substitute for having an engine in good condition that starts first time every time.
Fishing isn't about life and death...its far more important than that
kempy
Posts: 810
Date Joined: 28/05/09
higly recommened got them on
higly recommened got them on 4x4 and boat
Dinkum Auto Electrical A/C & Mechanical Unit 10/16 Kent way Malaga 0438755754 Also Mobile
Open 7 days except when we are fishn For all your auto electrical needs
wadetolley
Posts: 2258
Date Joined: 27/06/08
Where
Where did you buy yours from? Can you get them at repco ect?
kempy
Posts: 810
Date Joined: 28/05/09
no i ment dual batteries not
no i ment dual batteries not the chargers but i think u can get them from repco
Dinkum Auto Electrical A/C & Mechanical Unit 10/16 Kent way Malaga 0438755754 Also Mobile
Open 7 days except when we are fishn For all your auto electrical needs
just dhu it
Posts: 1081
Date Joined: 14/05/09
dual batteries
Scott, my preference in both car and boat is dual batteries with a 3 position change over batt1 batt2 both 1and 2 or off , its manual operation , my car used for camping and runnig engels etc but i change over from one and two regularily which gives both units a good charge and discharge, and you can also listen to your motor starting and and tell if the battery is on the way out or not charged enough, same with the boat run out and around all day on one and change over to the second unit during the day, iam not a fan of the auto change over or load share units as i got caught out once ( car ) when i had flattened my main battery and when i went to start the engine the unit brought batt 2 online to assist only to find a cell had failed and it to was use less, one thing out thirty miles in a boat, you cant push start it and for possibly $ 400/500 you got all bases covered with dual batts
Justin Poole
Posts: 225
Date Joined: 24/08/08
Got any installation
Got any installation prices for a dual battery system in the 4bee?
By Hook or Spear, its all good..
kempy
Posts: 810
Date Joined: 28/05/09
they are all round 300 to
they are all round 300 to 500 bux for both boat and car really depends what system and where the batteries are located.
Dinkum Auto Electrical A/C & Mechanical Unit 10/16 Kent way Malaga 0438755754 Also Mobile
Open 7 days except when we are fishn For all your auto electrical needs
iana
Posts: 652
Date Joined: 21/09/09
Starting your outboard.
Both my Suzuki and Yamaha have rope start pullies under the cover, havn't used them yet, but should give them a try.
So one should be able to start with a flat battery. So you cant push start them, but you can pull start them
.
just dhu it
Posts: 1081
Date Joined: 14/05/09
try it
i had a look at my 150 yammy fly wheel and it is notched out for a rope but i dont think my deckies up to pull start the engine and pull up the anchor , there was a few guys awhile back on the site that managed a 150 opti pull start i think
scottbec
Posts: 242
Date Joined: 18/01/07
thanks again.
some good ideas there.
I like the idea of trickle charging off a small solar panel.
With the portable power pack idea - i do have a Waeco Coolpower pack which is a portable battery but it warns agains using it to jump start other batteries, but I have done it with my boat, only because it is only a 60hp and we figured the draw wouldnt be too high... the theory did work anyway. just looking at a more permanent solution.
cheers again.
wide open
Posts: 444
Date Joined: 24/12/09
on our boat
we have a isolated dual battery system, we bought the isolator switch from supercheap auto and bought some cable and wired it up and its excellent if you ever have a flat just switch to battery number 2 and away you go.
dagree
Posts: 660
Date Joined: 08/12/07
Got a similar setup
Keep both batteries charged at home. Run battery 1 on way out and sounding. Then run smaller battery 2 on way in to keep charged in case.
Cheers,
David
Cheers,
David (AKA Grumps)
Location: Heathridge. Toys: 120 Series Prado ... 5.3 Stacer Seamaster/Merc 90HP.
Indiana
Posts: 307
Date Joined: 15/12/09
Scott , I have had ,and
Scott , I have had ,and installed duel battery setups in 4x4,caravan's and boats over many years , and I would definately install the duel battery set up in your boat using suitable battery cable and a change over isolator switch.
In your 4x4 ,it depends on if you want to use the second battery as a start battery or to run accessory's only .The solenoid works well ,and is the cheapest option to run all you accessorys ,but wont be available to use as a start battery unless you move it into the postion of the main battery ...which is ok in a 4X4 ,but not much fun bobbing around on the ocean.
The remote start battery packs are a waste of time ,its just another battery to look after and charge , in a car yard situation there handy ,but unless you cycle it on a regular basis it will more than likely let you down on the one occassion you need it.
Out of all the battery's available today ,my money is on the Delco are the the best available on a budget.
" IF YOUR NOT GOING TO EAT IT ......PUT IT BACK WHERE YOU CAUGHT IT"
Dale
Posts: 7930
Date Joined: 13/09/05
Find something on here,
Find something on here, plenty of useful stuff.
Cheers
Dale
http://www.caravanandmotorhomebooks.com/articles/index.htm
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Mr Wolf
fishy fingers
Posts: 1719
Date Joined: 28/04/07
Get one of these
http://www.bepmarine.com/Single-Engine%2C-Two-Battery-Banks-180-1460.html
Easy to fit it will only allow starting on one battery until it's switched over to both or either but will automaticaly charge both batteries regardless of the switch position once the second battery reaches full charge it switches back to number one. All the connection details come with it.
Iceman
Posts: 747
Date Joined: 17/03/09
Rescue boats
we run dual batteries on all our rescue boats. Once thing you need to ensure that if you are rechaging with solar or 240 power you need to have charger with cut out switch so you do not over charge and cook the batteries. I think this is the problem with solar chargers. Also we run on different batteries each day when operating the vessels. By doing this if one battery fails we will know immediately, if running on both batteries and one fails you don;t find out until both quit.
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