SCUBA gear malfunction
To any and all that may be able to shed some light here.
I went for a dive today with a few buddies off Rotto and dropped in on Catherals. Went throguh the checks spoke about the dive, got into the water, dropped down and all good. Ran straight into a very curious puffer fish and and then started to swim off to the amazing swim throughs and drop off that I've been itching to hit for ages. Look back, both buddies are with me. Less than a minute later, get the tap - one buddie missing. Quick search, no bubbles, missing one buddie - WTF?? Look up, see the missing buddie on the surface - no deco stop. Up we go to check out what happened.
Turns out that the tank/Reg had malfunctioned. We dropped down with 240 bar, spend the first two minutes down there and then the air STOPPED. Michelle dashed for the surface using the main reg and the half breath in the 2nd reg. Getting into the boat, her computer is showing 0 bar yet the BC inflated - but got no air through the reg. The pressure of the tank wasn't consistant either. Not the normal high pressure squeal - yet 240 bar at start up?
Any ideas? She is heading back to the hire place to get their opinion but like to see what you guys think first so she doesn't get a bull shit answer. If we were deep into catherdals, this could have gone ugly fast!
Cheers
Jason
alfred
Posts: 3097
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Where did you hire the gear
Where did you hire the gear from?
Cammos
Posts: 606
Date Joined: 30/06/09
I wouldn't like to guess.
I wouldn't like to guess. Take the gear to an independent shop or service agent for an opinion.
hlokk
Posts: 4293
Date Joined: 04/04/08
Not good at all :s If you're
Not good at all :s
If you're getting zero bar on the gauge then it sounds like it could be something to do with the tank valve? Was it turned all the way on instead of just on?
You can turn the knob and not have it squeal on a full tank but guessing you were turning it enough so that it should have?
Cammos' idea sounds like a good one.
Paul G
Posts: 5215
Date Joined: 12/12/07
Not to sure what the prob is
Not to sure what the prob is ,has to be first stage as this feeds the regs .or tank was not filled .Lets know what the outcome was.
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till
Posts: 9358
Date Joined: 21/02/08
Fluctuating tank pressure is
Fluctuating tank pressure is usually just the valve wasn't opened enough. What happens is that when you get down further and the pressure outside the tank increases, the valve isn't open enough to let air out at that depth.
Always open the valve all the way, and then back a turn.
Cammos
Posts: 606
Date Joined: 30/06/09
I would agree with that from
I would agree with that from what I have heard, but I have no first hand experience of it.
till
Posts: 9358
Date Joined: 21/02/08
I have, although not in the
I have, although not in the water fortunately.
Just when I was onboard, looking at the gauge taking a few breaths, as you're supposed to do before I kitted up. It took me a little while to trace the fault.
You can test the whole business of x number of winds open allows tanks to drop tank pressure y against atmostpheric pressure easily by just opening the valve on a tank above the water level. It will run for awhile, then stop, but if you open it half a turn more it starts running again.
From that you can deduce that if it worked on the surface, and you used the air and increased the pressure externally, eventually you would stop getting air!
Oracle
Posts: 355
Date Joined: 22/11/10
thanks guys. You've got us
thanks guys. You've got us second guessing now. I remember checking Michelle's tank but it my have been the trip before even. We usually set up on site but this time did it before leaving Eagle bay. Might be a timely reminder for us that lots of diving doesn't mean you know what you're doing! Michelle's heading to the tank hire place soon and I'll update you all then - thanks again for input
Jason
fishnut
Posts: 255
Date Joined: 22/09/10
agree
I agree with most on here - sounds like the cylinder valve wasn't open all the way. There is little in the first stage that would do that - I think all of the modern regs fail in the open position, so she would have had constant air, rather than none and the gauge is straight through high pressure, so wouldn't be affected by a first stage failure anyway.
Also, not trying to be a smart ar$e and I have no idea of your experience, but you should make sure that you all have in you mind that first action in a situation like that should ALWAYS be go to buddy first, surface should be last resort. I have found that inexperienced divers seem to want to dash for the surface in moments of panic, rather than dash for their buddy's spare reg. A lot of that comes down to experience and confidence, but just something to try and keep in the front of your headspace.
and make sure you get to Cathedrals - it is an awesome dive.
till
Posts: 9358
Date Joined: 21/02/08
In the olden days (giggle),
In the olden days (giggle), they used to teach Buddy Breath before CESA, these days they teach CESA before Buddy Breathing IIRC.
fishnut
Posts: 255
Date Joined: 22/09/10
hehe
does 23 years diving count as 'olden'?
I hope that is not true. I think buddy breathing (using occy) is still priority followed by CESA. I don't think they even teach single reg buddy breathing any more
till
Posts: 9358
Date Joined: 21/02/08
Sorry mate, but it does =(I
Sorry mate, but it does =(
I originally did my ticket in '89, but redid it a few years back and noticed a lot had changed.
They don't really teach single reg share buddy breathing as you do mention, and the recommendation is as follows;
No Air Can Be Bad
No = Normal ascent
Air = Alternate Reg, ie; your spare.
Can = CESA
Be = Buddy Breathe
Bad = Buoyant Ascent
hlokk
Posts: 4293
Date Joined: 04/04/08
Buddy breathing is
Buddy breathing is technically on the same reg as far as I understand, so is a last resort. Using the occy is a bit different though. They are definitely different in terms of priorities compared to CESA. Unfortunately due to terminology confusion, it can be ambiguous which one they are reffering to. E.g. "buddy breathing" could be both after and before CESA depending on which buddy breathing you're talking about (or which school). TBH, i forget the exact order :p
That being said, depends on the situation. Sometimes theres not much chance of getting to a dive buddy even if they are close by (e.g. they're swimming fairly fast and catching up can take while, especially if they're not looking behind and dont listen for tank banging :p). In 10m, you're going to be able to get to the surface a lot quicker than a dive buddy a couple of meters away. All depends on what the situation is, depth, how far away you are, whether he sees you, etc. A standard order doesnt work in all situations.
Dicey
Posts: 912
Date Joined: 23/07/10
Dont know nothing about
Dont know nothing about diving but, when there isnt any air coming through suddenly is it just like sucking a blocked snorkel? how would one hold their breath to go to the buddy because you couldnt take in air to hold the breath all of a sudden, thanks in advance.
tiimmbo
Posts: 695
Date Joined: 16/08/09
That
That would be your first mistake Dicey - holding your beathe. Pretty much the first lesson they teach you is to never hold you breathe.
Helen
Posts: 597
Date Joined: 06/02/10
And here was me thinking I
And here was me thinking I might get my diving ticket... Maybe next year. Too scared now. :(
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hlokk
Posts: 4293
Date Joined: 04/04/08
Do it. Do it! Gear failure
Do it. Do it! Gear failure is ridiculously unlikely with well maintained gear, and even then they do give you various training to deal with any situations (that are unlikely to occur).
Helen
Posts: 597
Date Joined: 06/02/10
Should have asked santa for a
Should have asked santa for a dive course for xmas... but i doubt he would have listened. :(
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alfred
Posts: 3097
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Get some good training, do
Get some good training, do your pre dive checks and dive with buddies who have had some experience and you will be fine.
till
Posts: 9358
Date Joined: 21/02/08
Ahh boo!Youy're gonna die one
Ahh boo!
Youy're gonna die one way and on average people's homes are probably more dangerous ... least mine is!
Man Overboard
Posts: 957
Date Joined: 16/01/10
Exactly, got more chance of
Exactly, got more chance of getting run over by a bus,
Just don't go diving with your new hubby on the honeymoon though..
Helen
Posts: 597
Date Joined: 06/02/10
I am sure i will be hit by a
I am sure i will be hit by a bus sooner than i will be getting married... so im sure i wont have that problem. :)
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Oracle
Posts: 355
Date Joined: 22/11/10
Thanks heaps for everyones
Thanks heaps for everyones input on this one guys. It did freak us out a bit. For Michelle obviuosly with no air and for me to turn around and my buddy isn't there!
You guys have nailed this one - we think!
The gear got tested today and all passed and the theory at the dive shop is the same as this thread. Maybe the air WASN''T on fully.
The experience def isn't there as we are prob only up to about 2 dozen dives now but I guess you do learn from mistakes. In this case, it looks like some of the checks were at fault casue we did them twice! We set our tanks up in the calm of Eagle bay on leaving, then rechecked them before the dive. What looks to have happened is Michelle checked her air, regs computer etc and all is OK. On the dive, she's "reopened" the air again and retested them but looks like the second check she my have closed it instead except for the last half turn.
For the question of swimming to your buddy or dash to the surface - sounds easy but in the heat of the moment, the surface doesn't look far away!
The second reg on another diver was probably only 5-7 meters away but when you have a small amount of air in your lungs, it's a quick tally of your options and GO! Not sure what I'd do. I'd like to think I'd go for the reg but.....
For the questions of do I get a dive cert - Bloody oath! It rocks! We are heading out tomorrow morning again off Hillarys to get Michelle back on the horse cause it really is jsut an amazing world and every time there is something new and VERY cool! I truly love it and I know Michelle is even crazier than me about diving. Hopefully we can get back to Catherdals next week. I still ended up going down with my brother in law - it's truly an awesome dive sight. Saw a monster star fish. Would have been about a meter across. True monster!
Thanks again for everyone's input! See ya on the bottom - with air!
Jason
Paul G
Posts: 5215
Date Joined: 12/12/07
Jesse ,Kevin and I have the
Jesse ,Kevin and I have the sea hornet,air horns that go on the bc line ,they are great .If you need your buddy for anything press the button a couple of times.We use them mainly to get the others attention .When we find crays or fish .In this case no air start swimming towards your buddy honking the horn he would look at you . You would give the no air signal .And he would be on you in seconds with his second reg.worth there weight in gold i reacon..
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Oracle
Posts: 355
Date Joined: 22/11/10
they sound good for more than
they sound good for more than just air. Snags, SHARKS, anything. Are they common as I've never seen or heard of them. From Hookers I'm guessing? Ask for Wombat
alfred
Posts: 3097
Date Joined: 12/01/07
Great for getting attention
Great for getting attention when you have air Paul. Will admit that I was wondering what the hell that sound was when I dived with you, till I worked it out. However, no air, no signal! LOL!
Reefmonkey
Posts: 711
Date Joined: 22/09/08
Hard to say
Guess you've gotta make up your mind in the moment cant say that if i was only in say 7 or less meters i'd prob just go to the surface and follow my buddy onto until they look up, however any deeper and best option would always be go to your buddy first, especially if the surface was out of visability.
Good thing you guys stuck together and were keeping an eye on each other anyway, I know a lot of divers who i'd have to say wouldn't notice someone missing for a good five minutes or so wen crays and fish get involved.
Funny that she made it two minutes into the dive before air ceased and also didn't flow back on the on the surface after a bit of inactivity, if so perhaps it was bumped on a swim through and was then fully closed? and that two low pressure ports and the high pressure ceased but one LP still flowed for the inflator? hmmm?
I just hope the shop still give the regs and tank valve the full run over before its handed over to the next customer, can never be to safe
Dave J.
till
Posts: 9358
Date Joined: 21/02/08
If my hypothesis is correct,
If my hypothesis is correct, it could explain why she only lost air at depth and after a period of time.
7m limit for a CESA? No way man, I've done them from 15m and if you keep your head, they're a breeze. Remember you get a breath back out of just air expansion in the lines on your gear.
I think they're a lot more controlable than swimming to a buddy, simply because you're relying on just one person - yourself.
Reefmonkey
Posts: 711
Date Joined: 22/09/08
True
Yea true, would cesa from any depth if its what you've gotta do its what you've gotta do, I guess i was just sayin at say 7 or so meters it would be no second thought it'd just be straight up, anythin less and you would take that moment to way up your options cesa if need be or buddy, say 10meters to a buddy swimming away from you or straight up
Dave J.
Reefmonkey
Posts: 711
Date Joined: 22/09/08
True
Yea true, would cesa from any depth if its what you've gotta do its what you've gotta do, I guess i was just sayin at say 7 or so meters it would be no second thought it'd just be straight up, anythin less and you would take that moment to way up your options cesa if need be or buddy, say 10meters to a buddy swimming away from you or straight up
Dave J.