WA Museum

Hi everyone,

I have been a private member of Fishwrecked since 2010 (under another name).  However, I am also  the Curator of Fishes at the WA Museum.  So, with Adam's support, I have set up a new user account so I can post comments representing the Museum.  I’m sure most of you understand that the State Government has strict rules on what can and can’t be said by public servants.  I'll save my other account for my anonymous personal fishing discussion (yes, I am a fisho too!).

So what does the Museum do?

The core function of the museum is as the taxonomic experts for the state's fauna.  Put simply, we know (or at least can figure out) what every species is.  That is, put names on things, provide IDs – this core function of the museum is something that I suspect many (most?) anglers don’t know about.  We get sent many photos, specimens etc for help with ID - from fishos, beachcombers, divers, biologists and other government agencies.  Many of you probably use Hutchins' Southern Sea Fishes book or Allen's Tropical Marine Fishes book.  Barry Hutchins and Gerry Allen were (and still are) colleagues of mine and previous Curators at the Museum (now retired).  I might add that these are the BEST books for WA.

Of course, the museum doesn't just do fish (although they are the most important, right? ) - all the other groups of animals are covered too, both terrestrial and aquatic.

We don't just do identifications and 'names'.  Our research includes evolutionary questions and relationships between species, biodiversity and biogeography (what lives where), ecology, genetics and more!

Why am I here?

Firstly, I think FW is great and I get a lot out of it, so I want to be able to contribute.  I’d like to be able to provide an ID with some authority, so people can feel like they have an expert opinion.  I should add here that more often than not, the IDs that everyone provides here are correct and that I think Fishwreckapedia is a fantastic resource.  However, I also have access to a database of records that no-one else has, a library of fish books to make you drool, and a collection of some 180,000 specimens of fishes from some 5000 species.  The problem with field guides is that they are incomplete, so the reasources I have fill in the rest.  Here, I should also add, that not all photos can be IDd (for many you really need to have the specimen in hand to be 100% sure).  Oh, and I do get it wrong sometimes.

I'm also hoping to engage the wider community in our science and educate them in marine science, so I can perhaps comment about general marine science matters etc, but also I could give snippets of what we are doing, exciting discoveries, brag about fieldwork in exotic locations etc.  I will not comment on political/management/ethical discussions....

 Finally, I get something else.  I get information from you!  I already scour the forums and pick up interesting records, range extensions, etc.  So there is also a chance for people to get involved by reporting range extensions etc, or for you to provide us with interesting/important specimens that you catch.

I'd thought I'd add a photo of one of the aisles in our collection.  These are not part of the public exhibitions.

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Glenn Moore

Curator of Fishes

Western Australian Museum

twitter @WestOzFish

 

 

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Faulkner Family's picture

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 can you tell us all what

Wed, 2012-02-15 13:58

 can you tell us all what species you have in that aisle. every one of them .

good to know there is someone in the know about what fish is what. the books can be great but there is always some doubt on some species

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RUSS and SANDY. A family that fishes together stays together

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Hi Glenn and welcome!

Wed, 2012-02-15 13:59

Hi Glenn and welcome!

I think you and Mark McGrouther from the Aus Museum IDed a Uraspis secunda for my brother!

Looking forward to your contributions ;)

till

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Glenn Moore's picture

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Yep, I remember.  If it is

Wed, 2012-02-15 14:43

Yep, I remember.  If it is the one I'm thinking of it was at the FADs early last year.  Nice fish - it is in the collection.

____________________________________________________________________________

Glenn Moore

Curator of Fishes

Western Australian Museum

twitter @WestOzFish

 

 

sea-kem's picture

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Welcome Glenn and great

Wed, 2012-02-15 14:11

Welcome Glenn and great intro. I will be looking forward to your contributions and will press my young fella to ask questions from time to time. He is shark mad at the moment and is busting to get a set of jaws (off a shark he has caught). Good to know there is now a huge data base of info to access.My first question what is the growth rate for herring and Skippy?

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Love the West!

Glenn Moore's picture

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I knew it - straight away,

Wed, 2012-02-15 14:56

I knew it - straight away, and I'm out of my depth! LOL.  I know snippets about life-history and fisheries biology, but that's not my field.  However, I do know that growth rates for Herring are well known.  I also know the rates differ slightly in different parts of the coast, although genetically they are all part of the same population.  They reach maturity at about 2 years old when they are around 20cm.  I'm guessing similar data are available for Skippy too - I'll have to pass the buck to Dept. Fisheries, or Google.

 

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Glenn Moore

Curator of Fishes

Western Australian Museum

twitter @WestOzFish

 

 

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Date Joined: 17/06/10

Hi Glenn

Wed, 2012-02-15 14:12

I'm sorry to welcome you and hit you straight up with a question but, after seeing the ABC programme on sharks in the Sydney Harbour I have wondered for many years about the lack of confirmed sightings in the Mandurah Estuary, plenty of reports captures in the Swan but nothing of substance that I can find about the estuary. Can you give a comment on this matter, and again welcome

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Good point.  We (the

Wed, 2012-02-15 15:11

Good point.  We (the museum) don't have any sharks from the Peel, or records that are certain, but I do know of many anecdotal reports - most probably Bullies.  I can't see much of a reason why they shouldn't be there.  As to why they are not seen often, I'd be guessing.  But then again, they are not really seen that often in the Swan - it's just that the media likes to make something out of when they are.

I enjoyed the show last night.

 

edit: you got me thinking about a report I had in the back of my head and with a bit of googling, I found this

http://www.fish.wa.gov.au/docs/media/index.php?9999&mr=107

 

____________________________________________________________________________

Glenn Moore

Curator of Fishes

Western Australian Museum

twitter @WestOzFish

 

 

Faulkner Family's picture

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 too many questions too soon.

Wed, 2012-02-15 15:18

 too many questions too soon. people must think your an encyclopedia or something. btw. how many species of fish is there 

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RUSS and SANDY. A family that fishes together stays together

Glenn Moore's picture

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ha, we get this one a lot! 

Wed, 2012-02-15 15:25

ha, we get this one a lot!  All approximates of course...

World ~32,000 but more undescribed ones

Australia ~ 4,500 but probably closer to 5,000

WA probably somewhere between 3,000 and 3,300 depending on which islands you call 'WA'

____________________________________________________________________________

Glenn Moore

Curator of Fishes

Western Australian Museum

twitter @WestOzFish

 

 

Faulkner Family's picture

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Date Joined: 11/03/08

 now name them. hahahaha.was

Wed, 2012-02-15 15:31

 now name them. hahahaha.was only kidding about how many. interesting to know tho

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RUSS and SANDY. A family that fishes together stays together

hlokk's picture

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I have a question for you:How

Wed, 2012-02-15 16:11

I have a question for you:

How much do you know about morphological differences in longtail tuna? From my limited research it seems there are two slightly different forms of longtail tuna with a few differences (incl notably gill plate shapes). Do you have any more information on research about this? The longtail tuna survey should hopefully shed some light on this?

See my post here for examples.

 

 

Glenn Moore's picture

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longtails

Thu, 2012-02-16 09:53

Given the research you seem to have done, you probably know as much as me, or anyone for that matter.  The answer is - we still don't know.  For those who are interested, the Longtail Survey has a webpage (http://www.longtailtuna.com.au/) and the final FRDC report on longtails is available and on page 18 there is a summary of the status:

 

6.2 Stock structure

There has been debate regarding the stock structure of longtail tuna throughout the Indo-Pacific region. Abdulhaleem (1989) found significant differences in the number of gill rakers in fish between Oman and India and suggests that this may be indicative of at least two separate stocks in the Indian Ocean. Serventy (1956) also suggested that separate stocks, and possibly even two sub-species, may exist in Australian waters based on the distinct difference in the size distributions of fish off the eastern, northern and western coasts of Australian. Wilson (1981) tested this hypothesis by using morphome rics and allozyme electrophoresis and found no differences between samples collected from Papua New Guinea, Gulf of Carpentaria, Moreton Bay (Qld) and Shark Bay (W.A.). However, he warned that his results need to be viewed with caution owing to small sample sizes from the latter three locations.

It is clear from length-frequency data reported in studies throughout the distribution of longtail tuna, that there is an obvious increase in fish size with increasing latitude. This appears to be most apparent in Australian waters, where several studies (Serventy, 1942a;1956; Wilson, 1981; Stevens and Davenport, 1991) have shown fish to be smallest in the Arafura Sea in northern Australia and gradually increasing in size with increasing latitude southward along both the east and west coasts. Very few small fish less than 40 cm fork length (FL) have been recorded from Australian waters, while fish of this size are abundant in southeast Asia and support large commercial fisheries. This suggests that there may be a southward ontogenetic migration from a more northern nursery ground, such as Thailand and Malaysia (see Yesaki, 1993). As a result, longtail tuna may exist as a single stock throughout southeastern Asia and Australia. However, considering the significant geographic barriers evident throughout the neritic distribution of the species, the possibility of separate stocks of longtail tuna being present throughout its geographical range cannot be discounted. In the absence of tagging data and reliable genetic analyses (i.e. using DNA), the extent of mixing of fish between countries or water masses remains unknown.

(from: http://www.frdc.com.au/documentlibrary/finalreports/2008-058-DLD.pdf)

____________________________________________________________________________

Glenn Moore

Curator of Fishes

Western Australian Museum

twitter @WestOzFish

 

 

Adam Gallash's picture

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Welcome Glenn

Wed, 2012-02-15 18:15

Looks like a hit mate, cmon guys, any more questions out there? ;)

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Hi Glenn

Wed, 2012-02-15 18:53

I don't believe we ever had confirmation on what the fish was in the thread below.  Flame snapper seemed to be the closest.  There have been similar pics and posts of this fish since this one with as I recall similar outcomes.  Perhaps you can help?

http://fishwrecked.com/forum/fish-id-9

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Glenn Moore's picture

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This is very interesting.  I

Thu, 2012-02-16 09:59

This is very interesting.  I remember when you posted it and was puzzled then - forgot to follow it up.  Leave it with me and I'll get back to you.  I have some ideas that I need to follow up.  Can you tell me if you filleted it, what colour was the flesh?  (you need to take better photos - ha!)

____________________________________________________________________________

Glenn Moore

Curator of Fishes

Western Australian Museum

twitter @WestOzFish

 

 

Posts: 9358

Date Joined: 21/02/08

We had one of those up awhile

Thu, 2012-02-16 11:13

We had one of those up awhile back, very red flesh and tasted very ordinary by all reports.

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Flame Snapper

Thu, 2012-02-16 12:18

It is definitely not a flame snapper, I have caught a flame up here and they have an elongated caudal fin.

I think its some type of jobfish, will need to check up, I have seen one almost identical caught when I was fishing in East Timor.  Interested in the result. :)

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Glenn Moore's picture

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Japanese Rubyfish

Thu, 2012-02-16 12:56

OK, I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest what i think.  I am pretty sure it is a member of the bonnetmouths (family Emmelichthyidae).  The members of the family are often misidentified as jobfish/snapper.  I'll go even further out the limb and say it might be a Japanese Rubyfish Erythrocles schlegelii

If I am correct, then it is a new record for WA.  In saying that, I have looked through FW and there have been a few taken from deep metro areas, so it's just that we haven't had one come to us, either by fishos, or by any of the research sampling over the part decades.  It is known from areas between Japan and Africa, and recently confirmed from Australia for the first time, in Queensland.  I think this one by Luke R is the same http://fishwrecked.com/forum/wednesday-report-2.  From all accounts the flesh is so red that it is almost black and no good to eat.  There is a more common bonnetmouth in southern waters (Bigscale Rubyfish Plagiogeneion macrolepis) that I first thought it might have been, but really don't think this is.

Now my call out!  For this group of fishes, it is impossible to be sure from photos, so we would love to get a specimen or two of these.  Firstly to confirm its identity, but also to have a voucher and add it to the WA species list.  So, if anyone gets one, please freeze it and donate it, and your name will be forever immortalised in our collection database .  You never know, it could even be a new species, but lets not get too excited just yet!

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Glenn Moore

Curator of Fishes

Western Australian Museum

twitter @WestOzFish

 

 

Posts: 9358

Date Joined: 21/02/08

Maybe we will bring the next

Thu, 2012-02-16 14:21

Maybe we will bring the next one in, we have gotten them on and off around the derwent.

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sarcasm0's picture

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Hello Glenn

Wed, 2012-02-15 19:04

Welcome.  Just wondering, does the WA Maritime Museum and the Shipwreck museum in Fremantle fall under your umbrella?  I have been doing quite a bit of reading lately about the early days of diving in WA (James Henderson - Phantoms of the Tryall and Hugh Edwards new one - Dead Mens Silver come to mind) and would love to know the true stories of the museum if available. 

Bryan

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Maritime and Shipwrecks are

Thu, 2012-02-16 10:09

Maritime and Shipwrecks are both part of the WA Museum, but nothing to do with me, I'm afraid.  They fall under Maritime Archaeology.

____________________________________________________________________________

Glenn Moore

Curator of Fishes

Western Australian Museum

twitter @WestOzFish

 

 

sunshine's picture

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Can personally confirm bull sharks in Mandurah Estuary

Wed, 2012-02-15 19:23

Had one tail wrapped in a crab net line for a few minutes before it released itself - just around the corner from the Cut  

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crab net shark

Thu, 2012-02-16 00:08

thanks for the info sunshine can you tell me how long ago this happened and any guess as to the size

sunshine's picture

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Last year and over 2 metres

Thu, 2012-02-16 06:44

It went absolutely berko destroying the frame of the crab net with it's wild thrashing ...........figure it tried to remove the pinned mullet bait and got tangled in the process. 

Faulkner Family's picture

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 topicWhat fish- not a

Sun, 2012-02-19 10:25

 

topicWhat fish- not a Western Fortescue, Bull Rout? Nasty venom in spikes

 look at this page and could you tell us what they are

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RUSS and SANDY. A family that fishes together stays together