FG knot failures

 I had two FG knot failures in less than a week.

1) 10 lb Sunline braid into 12 lb Fluorocarbon.  Caught a few fish, then went to cast (small 1/12 oz jig head) and had the whole lure and fluoro depart.  Maybe I had the bail arm over or something, but the fg knot separated.

2)  65 lb whiplash braid into 50 lb Penn SuperX shock leader.  My mate was using this rod, he hooked a big stingray and hauled it to the edge of the sand.  I walked down to the waterline, grabbed the leader right near the knot, (knot was inside my hand), started hauling thisray out and the FG knot separated.

 

In both cases the braid was still 100% intact, but the mono just slipped out of the crossed over loops.

 

Granted, I'm an idiot and can't follow youtube videos to save myself, but seriously I'm having trouble with this knot.  For something that is supposed to be 100% line strength I've found it to be far less than ideal.

 

Does anyone else have any trouble with the FG knot?


beau's picture

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Are you melting a ball on the

Mon, 2018-03-12 00:22

Are you melting a ball on the end of the leader "behind" the knot to prevent the leader slipping through? I never had a problem once i started doing that

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One essential step

Mon, 2018-03-12 05:58

 I’ve not had one fail yet but there are one thing I always do when tying:

You must, after putting your first set of locking hitches on, tension the knot as much as possible to get the braid to bite into the mono.  It’s easy to know when this is achieved as a section of the braid wraps will turn from opaque to translucent.  Then you can continue to finish locking and trim the tags.

This is why I’ve always felt this isn’t the best knot for really light mono leaders, I’m not sure you can tension it enough to bite into the mono.

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Madmerv's picture

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+1

Mon, 2018-03-12 06:30

 I've been using a FG on my bream outfit and find it great. 4lb braid to 8lb fluro. I busted a few when doing the tensioning the first couple of times but i think i have it about right now.

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Paj man's picture

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+2

Mon, 2018-03-12 08:14

You really need the braid to bite! This took me heaps of practice but I've now got it spot on and no fg failures. Recently added the rizzuto finish as the half hitches sometimes had a habit of undoing (mainly when casting all day) 

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Madmerv's picture

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Knot Failures

Mon, 2018-03-12 06:25

 If the braid was intact and the leader slipped then there is only 2 reasons i can think of for this happening.

1: the half hitches that secure the braid came loose over time. This happened to me on one of the first Fg's i tied while on the boat. It was fairly rough, the fish were biting and i was in a hurry. If the securing knots come just a little bit loose then the first loop of mainline around the leader has a chance to slip up a bit and once that comes off the tag it is all over. To prevent this, instead of doing a half hitch (i dont know the name of this) start a half hitch but put the tag end through the loop 3-4 times. (rolling hitch?). This creates a stronger lock on the line.

2: Before locking a FG knot down fully and trimming tags you need to pull on the leader and braid to embed the braid into the leader. This needs to be taken seriously, so if you have 50lb leader you need to put a good 40lb pull on both. I could show you the scars on my hands from doing this without tools or gloves so it is best to keep a nice rounded bit of hard wood handy for this purpose.

Hope that helps.

Ps: Melting the leader can work also but creates a larger area to snag as you wind in and can bring flame way to close to the main line for my liking.

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 Sometimes when the water is quiet, you can hear the fish laughing at you !

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Ruzzuto finish

Mon, 2018-03-12 07:08

 I used to use the half hitches on the fg but had to many failures because they can dig in to the line and they can come un done so l then did some research and found a video by mb customs he does a great vid on the fg with ruzzuto finish a lot of the gt fisherman are all changing from the half hitches to ruzzuto finish. I have never had on fail l highly recommend you try this ruzzuto finish.

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 G'dayI'm wondering if the

Mon, 2018-03-12 07:46

 G'day

I'm wondering if the difference in size of lines is not enough ie the leader is to thin.  In rope work there's a few rope to rope knots/hitches that require a fairly large ratio so the smaller rope digs in a bit.  With FG knot, I only use it for tuna and have 50lb braid to 100 - 130lb mono.  Haven't had any failures and I'm pretty sure one or 2 of my setups have done 3 or 4 seasons.  Another thing that I wonder, is why people on youtube etc tie the half hitches one way then the other, it doesn't work with ropes so why would it work on braid?

Cheers

Rod

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Good info

Mon, 2018-03-12 17:53

how many wraps would you do for 30/40 

ranmar850's picture

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Rodfishsa is onto it.

Mon, 2018-03-12 08:11

 The standard 20 turns only works when there is a large difference in the braid and mono diameters, ie 50lg braid to 80lb mono. i did some experiments on this late last year, needing to join 30lb braid to 10kg IGFA topshot. I had to go to 40 turns to get full strength IIRC. I normally use the 20 turns for 50/80 and 30/60,( mainline braid/mono leader) and it has always worked well. Had an interesting conversation on THT where smeone said that the FG knot was actually an old telegraph hitches from the latee 1800's.  As for the failure where the OP had the knot in his hand, the knot only works one way--if you let your hand slide up the mono, it can slide the knot straight off.....it's the same as grabbing the leader on a game fishing outfit--DON'T TOUCH THE CLIP ( or in this case , the knot). 

We were in a situation where we had to rejoin dacron and mono topshot on a game outfit with no rigging needle to do it correctly --23kg mono to 23kg dacron. Used 40 turns and tested at full strength. 

little johnny's picture

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Same as resurgence

Mon, 2018-03-12 08:16

On First step. Then I do double, then single just around mono. Then I Finnish with double. Then I pull tight again.then I put small drop of glue on tag end. Lighter the line more wraps. Haven't been doing them as long as most. But they haven't let me down.

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Only time I have issues is

Mon, 2018-03-12 09:03

Only time I have issues is with flourocarbon, as it is too hard for the braid to bit into. 

 

I use a GT knot on flouro now or if I do use an FG, use lots of cross wraps and heaps of forcve to get it to bite.

 

The melted end should only be to stop the sharp end rubbing against the braid, it should play no part in the knot strength. 

 

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Paj man's picture

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Flouro

Mon, 2018-03-12 10:01

If i find the fluoro too hard and I'm not getting a good enough bite I get some fine sand paper onto the leader - adds a heap more friction to the knot. 

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For hard leader types

Mon, 2018-03-12 09:34

 For dhus knots to hard leader types you need to almost double the amount of weaves and half hitches. The best best thing I have found is keep the knot tight the whole time. When tying the weaves I move the braid up and down the mono until it bites on the mono while making it tighter. You will know when you have done it correct as the braid will change color. Then after the weaves do a double half hitch locking knot. Leave the tag on and give it to it. With practise you will find the knot won’t slip at all. Finally the important part make sure you do half hitches that are opposite locking. Over the lead and under the leader. Have found they will slip a bit of don’t all the same way and tend to spiral around the leader making casting a bitch. If you still have issues melt the mono end and apply a bit of super glue on the half hitches.

Jackfrost80's picture

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I’ve only had one FG knot

Mon, 2018-03-12 10:28

I’ve only had one FG knot fail ranging from 2lb to 60lb and this was due to not tightening the coils before trimming the leader tag end. 

 
I use the Knot Assist 2.0 tool and it’s brilliant for getting each coil nice and tight. I’ll lay 30 wraps and then tie one half hitch and pull the lines really tight to bite the braid into the leader and do a further 5 alternating half hitches and trim the leader with a Bouz line cutter and tie another 6 alternating half hitches and trim the leader with the line cutter.
 
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 Thanks guys, that helps a

Mon, 2018-03-12 10:59

 Thanks guys, that helps a lot.

 

I think the issue was not tensioning the knot enough when tying it.  For 50 lb gear that's a lot of force to do by hand!

I hadn't heard of the Rizzuto finish before, I'll try that next time.

 

 

sonofdarryl's picture

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 You don't need to pull 50lb

Tue, 2018-03-13 20:21

 You don't need to pull 50lb to tension 50lb gear...that would break the line! One it has changed colour that is all you need, which is about 10-15lb normally, if wrapping around hands is hurting you can hook your line onto something and pull the reel tight. What you should do though is test your lines to failure using scales to make sure you're tying it correctly. Once you know the breaking strain you can hook your reel up to the scales and set your drag accordingly,  knowing what your knots can and can't handle if you're about to get burried. 

little johnny's picture

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We put temp snaplock

Mon, 2018-03-12 12:29

On leader . Clip to boat trailer point rod towards trailer . And slowly pull you can see fg slowly twist when it tightens. We only use black magic leaders. I don't trust Fluro carbon. Or jinki ( leader tends to snap ?) unsure why. Good luck

Bing's picture

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.

Wed, 2018-03-14 04:58

Good tip about the glue, I might give this a try as I’ve noticed my last hitch has come undone before (rest of the knot was fine).

To get my knot to pull tight I use 2x cut peices of old crab scoop handle a little bit wider than palm width, few wraps of the braid around one and a few wraps of the leader on the other and pull it in. Can watch the knot really pull in.

 

Hutch's picture

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Do more wraps and make sure

Mon, 2018-03-12 13:39

Do more wraps and make sure they're tight as mentioned before. I do 40 wraps as a minimum, 50 on my heavier gear over 50lb. 

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That's a lot of wraps

Mon, 2018-03-12 17:50

that's a lot of wraps you only have to do up to about 20 l only do 14 the more wraps you do the harder it is to keep all the wraps tight 

Hutch's picture

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 Depends how you tie it and

Mon, 2018-03-12 19:38

 Depends how you tie it and how much confidence you want to have in the knot. I often have 80lb leader break before the 50lb braid/80lb mono FG pops. 

Most of my heavy fishing is off the beach with a long leader of up to 10m so it sees the knot going through the guides a lot. I burn the end off my mono tag and do heaps of wraps to give me the confidence in my knot.

In the end it comes down to trial and error and you'll find something you're confident in.

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im far from an expert but

Mon, 2018-03-12 16:01

im far from an expert but with so many ways to tie the fg itd be hard to say what youre doing wrong for sure but it sounds like youre learning! Stick with the knot, youll have failures with any knot but ive learnt not too rush when doing it and give it a good strong steady pull like already said.

 

Fishn n Ridin's picture

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I don't bother with them on

Mon, 2018-03-12 16:07

I don't bother with them on smaller line poundages, just use a double uni but 30lb over I use fgs. Tbh I haven't read every response, but when you're tying the wraps, when you tighten it after every wrap then the braid will start to change colour, that will tell you it is tight enough. Second the idea of mushrooming the end of the mono/fluro with a lighter.

Jackfrost80's picture

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Slim knots like the FG are a

Mon, 2018-03-12 20:26

Slim knots like the FG are a must when fishing with small, light lures on 1-2kg and 1-3kg rods with microguides.

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Fishn n Ridin's picture

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I have no issues with uni

Mon, 2018-03-12 22:20

I have no issues with uni knots on my light tackle rods. My casting distance is fine

Jackfrost80's picture

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Aye mate, if it works don't

Mon, 2018-03-12 22:49

Aye mate, if it works don't change it but for me it's the tiny micro guides on my bream rods that are the issue with the uni knot banging the guides. Not good for accuracy when you're standing on a dinghy trying to land a small lure within a couple of cm of a snag and not good for the guides either.

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 i do alot of bream fishing

Mon, 2018-03-12 19:26

 i do alot of bream fishing and religiously use the fg, smallest leader i do is 4lb and have no problems at all, with 6lb leader i can pull jig heads straight of snap them off , with the small stuff i do about 20 wraps and i use the knot assit tool, makes it so much easier. do 1 half hitch pull up then do 5 more opposing half hitches, the last half hitch i do about 5 wraps and that tends to lock the line in pretty good, dont be shy to leave a real short tag on your braid when you trim it, also i should add i dont do half hitcheson the braid to finish it off, i found it weakens the fg, i apply the same with bigger lb leader but more wraps

sparrow's picture

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I once had trouble with tying

Tue, 2018-03-13 06:21

I once had trouble with tying a mates line and knots slipping and it was because he used baby oil on his line (IDK why!)

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sea-kem's picture

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 This is the best vid I've

Tue, 2018-03-13 18:12

 This is the best vid I've seen on the FG

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Jackfrost80's picture

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Another great way to do it is

Tue, 2018-03-13 19:47

Another great way to do it is to run the braid through the guides and tie a loop knot in the end of the braid and pop it over the reel handle to get tension on the braid without using your teeth. Makes it easy to do in a rod holder when on the water too.

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Fishn n Ridin's picture

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That is a damn good idea.

Tue, 2018-03-13 22:50

That is a damn good idea. That will save me the arse ache of finding something to tie the braid to on am empty beach

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 I tie it the same as in the

Wed, 2018-03-14 05:29

 I tie it the same as in the video but don't use my mouth.  Most are tied in the shed and I put the rod in a rod storage rack and tie of the braid about 2 metres away (to a vice).  Put a bit of tension on and the rod tip flex helps the process and I keep the knot tied the entire time I'm tying it

Cheers

Rod

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Date Joined: 08/09/16

 Yep I found this the first

Wed, 2018-03-14 12:23

 Yep I found this the first time I learned to tie the FG too. I've varied the finish a bit to try to make it more robust for passing through the guides multiple time but I find this way to do the wraps the easiest by far. If I can follow it anyone can!

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 I just tested my latest FG

Wed, 2018-03-14 10:57

 I just tested my latest FG knot, and it held at the max drag of the reel, so that's good enough for me!

 

Thanks to all for the advice, I really appreciate it.  There's a wealth of knowledge and experience on this forum.