Fines for boats on trailers etc
did anyone notice on the front page of the West Australian today, Police Commissioner Karl O'Callaghan referring specifically to
"a group of Regional Officers who spent part of the Christmas period fining boat owners for not showing the correct flags" rather than pursuing issues relating to reducing fatalities.
Very interesting that it got noticed so high up in the ranks.
I recall at least one on here getting a fine around that time for not having a flag on the outboard, as I believe it was in the Midwest that he was referring to.
Perhaps we might see some more "relevant" policing instead of the stuff we have been subjected to.
Around the same time it was headlines in the local rag-"POLICE CRACKDOWN-if you drive or ride an offroad (non road registered) vehicle ANYWHERE in the Midwest other than private property it will be impounded and you will be prosecuted."
I was thinking they must have sorted all other crime out especially the alcohol fuelled violence so often referred to.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
keg
Posts: 399
Date Joined: 17/07/07
i don`t think
the flag on the motor is a very relevant offence to target but there should be a lot more effort into pulling people over
who tow there massive big boats with under rated tow vehicles.
stevebw23
Posts: 155
Date Joined: 12/11/11
Yeah don't worry about the
Yeah don't worry about the crackheads stealing/raping/bashing, just nab the guy with the boat for trying to have a good time with their family... or even better arrest the kid for having a bit of fun on his motorbike, now that's real crime fighting haha. Worst part is we pay for this shit out of our tax
Symes Plumbing & Gas. No job too small, servicing all northern suburbs
till
Posts: 9358
Date Joined: 21/02/08
I don't really see there is
I don't really see there is much difference between killing someone with a boat or a knife, you're still culpable.
uncle
Posts: 9489
Date Joined: 10/02/07
i think there is much more
by knife or weapon Jamie, can't recall the last assault, by boat,plenty by jetskis though.
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
till
Posts: 9358
Date Joined: 21/02/08
That is my point uncle and
That is my point uncle and thanks for making it.
Rob H
Posts: 5806
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Im not sure if your taking
Im not sure if your taking the piss Till or not but if you are youve hooked me.
I havent read of anyone being killed either maliciously or by accident due an outboard not having a flag on it. Thats not to say its hasnt happened of course.
On the other hand I have read of plenty of stolen car chases, drunk drivers, stabbings, rapes and drunk beatings.
Hence someone as educated as yourself could work out that if the cops with limited resources want to reduce the Xmas road toll then the more effective way would be to target people who steal cars, carry flick knives and get agro while drunk on the street.
Or do you think they might find these people by looking for unflagged outboards?
Do you put a flag on your outboard when you tow it?
Personally I can recall seeing ever only 2 or 3 boats with outboard flags and thinking "how odd"? Neither of those boats was a Panga...
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Muppet
Posts: 408
Date Joined: 23/11/09
yeah
Coppers should be sorted out along with all the cash up bogans working in the resources sector. Worst professions of all.......
.
opsrey
Posts: 1200
Date Joined: 05/10/07
Rod holders on 4x4 bullbars.....
Met some senior fishos at the Biallabong Road House in mid 2011 who had been " chased down " by the local hwy police for having rod holders still attctched to their bullbars.
The decent and caring Police couldn't see their way clear to warn them and explain the issue, and gave them an on the spot fine. The fishos were told that the Police were having a crack down on the issue. No one wants the predestreains of the upper mid west getting more injured when they are run over by a 4x4 now do we?
Much road policing is about income and revenue. Much like the parking officers when a Match is on at Subiaco, must pay their OT but getting the fines rolling in.
The Police lost valuable friends that day from people who would have always had respect for law enforcement.
TGMitchell
Posts: 221
Date Joined: 24/11/09
Hear Hear!!
Hear Hear!!
The Black Baron
Paully
Posts: 3246
Date Joined: 15/08/09
Rob
Have you ever lived on a street where there is a constant flow of trail bikes being riden up and down same and over verges of the residences, all hours of the day and night? -Just asking mate.
Andy_b
Posts: 633
Date Joined: 19/10/11
i have, i used to live next
i have, i used to live next door to an ally way in yangebup and let me tell u this, it was farking pissing me off, all hours of the night and day pit bike, motor cross bike u name it went up the ally way, rang the cops oh sorry we can not do anythink about it, what a joke so i started throwing lemons at the pricks then move house,
Rob H
Posts: 5806
Date Joined: 18/01/12
Paully-they were announcing
Paully-they were announcing targetting them on the dunes and beaches not the road.
And of course the only ones they can catch are the old bloke heading out on his quad beach fishing and similar.
The young blokes on their YZ450's and racing quads are a cloud of dust in the distance.
Yes I do live on such a street, across from the beach.
Of course they should be hitting unlicenced vehicles on the road anytime.
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
sea-kem
Posts: 15020
Date Joined: 30/11/09
So what's the go with the
So what's the go with the flags on the motors?
Love the West!
Vinesh87
Posts: 2751
Date Joined: 02/04/11
Simple, you need one haha
Simple, you need one haha
DTrain
Posts: 486
Date Joined: 10/02/12
I think anything that
I think anything that projects more than 1 meter past the brake lights needs a flag. I'm not 100% sure though.
I'm guessing a lot of outboards would stick out that far if they are tilted all the way up.
Vinesh87
Posts: 2751
Date Joined: 02/04/11
Yeh not exaclty sure on the
Yeh not exaclty sure on the rule but for $3.75 i just put a flag on.I think anything projecting more than 1.2m is illegal anyway!
roberta
Posts: 2773
Date Joined: 08/07/08
just having a arguement
with old fart. When did they make the flag on the leg when towing law. He reckons only for over size boats. I said no any boat that is towing has to have a flag on the leg? Who is right.
Ginger Tablets Rock
out wide
Posts: 1535
Date Joined: 30/12/08
To many tossers in the policew force these day
I remember when I was young [wet toast term ] the cops were hard but fair, not now. Many... I am a copper your not, types in the ranks these days and i havent much time for them anymore. IMO they cost us tax payers to much for what shit policing we recieve.
fishy fingers
Posts: 1719
Date Joined: 28/04/07
Hope you never need one then
you'll be the first to shout for a cop when someone breaks into your house or steals your car or boat or worse.
Toby Roe
Posts: 118
Date Joined: 01/02/10
You can shout all you want
You can shout all you want sometimes .... with the current resources whether they come or not is a different story.
I (and others I suspect) get frustrated by the seemingly unlimted supply of officers that can be found for the income producing tasks but the lack of funding for cops to protect the people. In the end I don't think that a "crackdown" on lack of prop flags is in anyones best interest so why do it?
And before anyone jumps down my throat I am not just bitter about speeding fines or the like as I haven't been fined for anything for as long as I can remember (touch wood).
TGMitchell
Posts: 221
Date Joined: 24/11/09
They don't even show up! My
They don't even show up!
My mate had two cars stolen and there were nice fingerprints on them. Eventually the cops came out and say nah - "that prints no good" - my mate says - "nah look at it - it's as clear as day" - the cop says "nah, its got to be shiny and rubs out out right in front of his face and says " see, like that"
Another mate had a laptop stolen in a hostel and the video footage showed who it was and my mate found out where he lived - still the cops did nothing. Eventually my mate had to take them the footage from the camera and evidence of where they guy lived - so they went there and the house was full of stolen shit. They imponded the laptop for 6 weeks till he could get it back.
In my work we have had cases of people stealing money - you think they ever take any interest - nah! They've always got more important things to do like giving you speeding fines or parking illegaly so they can get to Macca's.
The Black Baron
sea-kem
Posts: 15020
Date Joined: 30/11/09
They do a good job in the
They do a good job in the main and agree with you Fishy fingers. Most times their hands are tied, I know, my old man used to be a Federal copper and he retired in frustration. We have an indigenous drug dealer living down the street who thrashes his WRX up and down our street at all hours. We or the neighbours can't do anything for fear of retribution. If we report him he and his cronies will know who we are. This type of situation requires vigilantism I reckon. I'm worried this prick is going to kill one of the kids on street.
Love the West!
Andy_b
Posts: 633
Date Joined: 19/10/11
if your worried about him
if your worried about him killing a kid in the street maybe u should ring the cop and explain it to them, because if this person does such a thing as killing a kid u could never live with yourself, i know i couldnt if i have a chance to prevent it and did sweet fa about it.
but i under stand where u are coming from at the same time,
Bluetonic
Posts: 1147
Date Joined: 09/01/08
Your situation is not good
Your situation is not good mate but me and my regular fishing buddy (Garbo) wouldn't hesitate to F%#K those useless mothers up! There comes a time in your life when you have to make a stand! especially if you think kids might be hurt!
Blue Sky, Blue Water, Bluetonic!
TGMitchell
Posts: 221
Date Joined: 24/11/09
Any of you guys remember the
Any of you guys remember the case of the cop in hillarys I think you fined his next door neighbour for letting his kids play on the front lawn?
The Black Baron
barnwah
Posts: 11
Date Joined: 06/08/10
coppers
I agree.
Coppers these day are just plain useless. Who do they think they are turning up for work everyday for half the money they could earn off shore or on the mines?? What about when they lock up a violent pissed idiot down the local pub that is carrying on in front of woman and children, or what really pisses me off when they knock on someone's door and tell the parents of a young bloke that he's just died in a car accident.
Yep dead set tossers and the worst profession.
big john
Posts: 8756
Date Joined: 20/07/06
Courts
The courts are the ones with the case to answer I reckon. Even if the coppers bust someone, once they face court the majority of the time their punishment involves being whipped with a wet lettuce leaf and told not to do it again.
Don't even talk about truth in sentencing, FMD.
WA based manufacturer and supplier of premium leadhead jigs, fligs, bucktail jigs, 'bulletproof' soft plastic jig heads and XOS bullet jig heads.
Jigs available online in my web store!
sstevee
Posts: 472
Date Joined: 15/11/11
+ 1!!
+ 1!!
roberta
Posts: 2773
Date Joined: 08/07/08
Agree
Till the courts hand out tougher sentencing, the little shites will get a smack on the hand and off to do it again.
Ginger Tablets Rock
Muppet
Posts: 408
Date Joined: 23/11/09
i love cop bashing topics
Go back to the original comment.
hands up, how many people on here been given a fine for no flags on their motor.
Havent seen one comment so far. C'mon, no bull, hands up.
Hardly warrants debate really, just because there was probably one road nazi in a road block that handed out an infringement or two for it.
Dont bitch about the coppers in general just because there's a few idiots among them that decide to act like idiots. You get them in every profession. Mining, politics, health, fisheries, whatever.
Heres something for ya. Coppers werent born coppers. They were miners, nurses, brickies, fisherman etc etc. So that tosser who is now a copper, was more than likely a tosser when he was a miner or worked offshore.
Dont believe me, join the job and see what you how you have to work AND HOW THINGS REALLY WORK. It aint like CSI as some on here think.
As for me, i can safely say that I have common sense prevailing when i am out and about on the street. I have cautioned many more people for traffic offences than i have fined (no i am not a traffiic copper). I have been in this job for many years. Some of you blokes, going by your profiles have only been walking this earth since breakfast, so come back to me in a decade or two. I do a good job at work, and take some of it into my own time, because i dont like to see the community i am in turn to puss and genuinely like helping people out that have been screwed over.
But as in any other job, we are bound by many different things. Example - i nab a bloke after breaking into a pensioners house and stealing gear. He has given the pensioner a real good flogging and has no remorse. The baddie comes away with a few injuries due to his arrest and i am now facing charges for excessive use of force. Will you people jump up and support me. ANSWER: NO. Because you wont give a sh(T. You cant have it both ways and in the end the community will get the police service it deserves, after all, the police service is a reflection of the community and its expectations.
Anyhoo, back to the real world. Had a good day fishing today. Nice weather, calm seas, couple of mackies. Oh, thats right, most of you guys live in Perth. HA HA, Suck it up !
.
roberta
Posts: 2773
Date Joined: 08/07/08
Well said
had 3 family in the force (old farts side of the family), 2 know retired and 1 on active duty, his nephew. I know your pain, frustration and joy.
Ginger Tablets Rock
Rob H
Posts: 5806
Date Joined: 18/01/12
no cop bashing from me
"Go back to the original comment.
hands up, how many people on here been given a fine for no flags on their motor.
Havent seen one comment so far. C'mon, no bull, hands up."
Must have been enough Muppet as it was a front page comment on the West Australian by the Commish referring to what was happening here in the Midwest at Xmas.
So they must have got enough to get some adverse feedback.
I certainly didnt put this up as a cop bashing thing, and having put this up last week then been out to the Abrolhos 3 days til tonite, was very suprised to see 33 comments here!
By the way, weather wasnt to flash out there, some rain southerly then NW, easterly, westerly then 25knts SE this morning and we had it all including squid plagues!
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.
Muppet
Posts: 408
Date Joined: 23/11/09
fear not rob
Have no probs with your original comment. Just some of the detours people take along the way
:)
.
barnwah
Posts: 11
Date Joined: 06/08/10
.
Well said Muppet.
Matt T
Posts: 875
Date Joined: 19/11/07
Coppers
Good work Muppet it sure as hell can't be an easy job.
I once had my BBQ nicked from my backyard, within 5 mins of reporting it I had a couple of officers at my place. We found it down the road in an ally and they had forensics there first thing in the morning fingerprinting it. Never got the bastards but the response from the coppers was top notch. Great story to tell, I half expected a chopper to land in my backyard and the TRG to storm out saying "what? the bastards took your barbie? Mate this is Australia we can't have that!"
Even if cops are being harsh and following things to the letter of the law, they are just doing the job. Parliament is who dictates what laws are created, the cops just have to follow that. Yes, there are times when cops could use more of a 'community' approach and point out what you're doing wrong and how to rectify it (like a flag on your outboard) rather than a straight up fine, but that depends on the individual.
That copper that pulls you over and fines you for having an unflagging protrusion from your trailer may have spent the last couple of months getting over seeing and dealing with a 10 year old kid with a steel rod from a heavy haulage trailer through his head. It happens. Not all coppers are good, but they are definitely not all bad. Most are just trying to do the best for the community within the constraints that they are allowed to work within.
uncle
Posts: 9489
Date Joined: 10/02/07
been towing boats up and down this coast forever
never heard of this rule!
all aggressive fish love bigjohnsjigs
tonyb
Posts: 188
Date Joined: 10/11/08
Fines
Actually, there were a lot of fines handed out at Lancelin this Xmas / New Year by the out of town Northam police. I believe they were also targeting the same thing at Indian Ocean Drive but they certainly got a lot of people in town, I spoke to about 10 in one day that had been fined. They were also hiding on the side streets getting people as they left the beach. There was an article written in the local Lancelin paper about it as well in the fishing club newsletter.
I found out later if you received a fine then you could go to the local cop shop and they would cancel the fine for you as in most cases the fines should not have been given (the one meter comment above).
I agree with the commissioner, what a waste of bloody time and effort for what? To ruin someone's Christmas for doing nothing illegal.
shammy
Posts: 231
Date Joined: 03/07/09
Projecting loads
http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/mediaFiles/LBU_VS_IB_117.pdf
This is the link for info on trades racks and roof racks which also has the info for the projecting load.
I think what is being looked at is the boat is the load on the trailer and not an integral part of the trailer, it's splitting hairs but that's how I'm reading it, the red light at night is a new one on me... There may be a need for another petition to have the laws changed for boat trailers and outboards, remember laws are made to reflect the needs and will of the people. quote
"Projecting loads
Projecting loads are permitted to extend 1.2m in front of the headlamps. Similarly, the rearward load projection is limited to 1.2m. In no case must the rearward projection beyond the vehicle’s rear axle exceed 60% of the vehicle's wheelbase.
The load is also permitted to extend outwards by 150mm each side of the vehicle, providing the overall width does not exceed 2.5m.
A projecting load must not constitute a dangerous projection. Where a projecting load is not readily visible, a conspicuous flag at least 300mm square is required to be affixed to the projecting load. At night a red light must be attached to the load extremity at the rear.
IB-117C (February 2011) page 1 of 2" end
"Life wasn't meant to be a spectator sport"
Buz
Posts: 1555
Date Joined: 28/08/07
Whenever i tow my boat i
Whenever i tow my boat i always have my little fed flag around the prop(think it was around $10 from BCF?). Agree that i have only ever seen maybe a couple of other boats with them on.
The only exception to me not putting it on is if i tow my boat with the full motor cover on(nowhere to attach the flag to), but then the area where the prop is is bright blue Canvas.
What i do find interesting is what does 'readily visible' constitute?
"Where a projecting load is not readily visible, a conspicuous flag at least 300mm square is required to be affixed to the projecting load."
I could understand say some lengths of wood or metal sticking out 1.2m from the back of a ute, would be hard to actually see direct on, but i would have thought a boat motor would constitute something that is readily visible?
johnny
Posts: 24
Date Joined: 10/03/07
I copped it hard at the road
I copped it hard at the road block in Lancelin..
Fine for taillight being out
Fine for forgetting to flick brake lever over on trailer
Yellow sticker on my ute for window tint and no horn working(horn worked fine when we put the ignition on) and passed first go at the pits
And when I said geez boys bit ruff it's Christmas.. I got "oh how about another fine mate" yeh what for now?
NOFLAGs on outboards.
This was at the roadblock , fisheries were there and treated us very well. Boarded boat searched everywhere which was good to see
The best part was.. It was a alcohol and speeding campaign over Christmas ..AND I DIDN'T GET BREATHTESTED!
Then they moved on to the old couple next to me, who was copping it as well by the looks
300 odd in fines, protect them all you want.. But when the Police commissioner doesn't agree with them their out of line
dan1
Posts: 379
Date Joined: 11/07/07
flag
One of my mate got one of these fines he was on his way back from Cervantes on Indian ocean rd he pulled over something like 140 people and fined them for not having a flag on their prop, funny enough some old cocky had who had enough money took it to court and won and my friend got an official letter of apology for the police dept and said they were going to refund the money from the fines if they had been paid good to see some people still know the law I think the officer had a bee in his bonnet that day
Rob H
Posts: 5806
Date Joined: 18/01/12
my original comment wasnt a cop bashing one
my original comment was along the lines that it was very heartening to see the Commissioner of Police noticing that there are far more important and effective strategies than pursuing misdemeanors.
The incredible case last year of the Mandurah copper who fined the woman for using a mobile phone while pushing a pram shows that perhaps they do need more supervision?
Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...
The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.
Everyone's just winging it.