LPG.

Heard yesterday from a Caltex station operator that they will be phasing out LPG within 18 months.
Not sure if it is all companies, but he was saying it is just not worth having. Sales and demand have dropped dramatically.
I am thinking that would affect a few members on here.
Has anyone else heard anything like this ???

____________________________________________________________________________

Cheers & Stay safe


Posts: 307

Date Joined: 18/10/10

Maybe the over the top prices

Wed, 2018-01-17 10:10

 it’s an expensive place to pick up your gas!

Spence's picture

Posts: 268

Date Joined: 09/08/10

 LPG is 90s. It's no longer

Wed, 2018-01-17 10:34

 LPG is 90s. It's no longer cheap and viable. Diesel and bio fuels will be way forward, get on board or find yourself out of servicing your LPG tank. 

Scotte's picture

Posts: 893

Date Joined: 07/12/06

No longer cheap and viable?

Wed, 2018-01-17 18:54

No longer cheap and viable? Wtf.

Posts: 366

Date Joined: 23/04/14

Price

Thu, 2018-01-18 06:01

 The only thing LPG had going for it as a vehicle fuel was its low price.  You have to burn a lot more to get the same power.  Back when it was about a third to half the price of ULP it was economical.  Now that it’s climbed to around two thirds I’d be surprised if it makes much sense, especially considering the advances in fuel economy for petrol vehicles.

____________________________________________________________________________

 

 

Scotte's picture

Posts: 893

Date Joined: 07/12/06

 It still works out cheaper

Thu, 2018-01-18 15:10

 It still works out cheaper for me by far running lpg over petrol in a patrol  have done so for 13 yrs and some 300 000 km.

Love lpg 

Posts: 4874

Date Joined: 17/06/10

Yep, same same

Thu, 2018-01-18 22:09

I can't tell you how many Ks I've done in an 88 patrol but it's a hell of a lot and I'll keep on using it until it becomes unavailable.

As I have posted else where, ecars don't (as yet) have the range for WA we are a big state with a lot of Ks in between places, when you can't get to Perth and back from Mandurah IMO they are good for city dwellers only.

Posts: 366

Date Joined: 23/04/14

Price

Thu, 2018-01-18 06:02

Double post.

____________________________________________________________________________

 

 

Posts: 366

Date Joined: 23/04/14

Dead end

Thu, 2018-01-18 06:05

 Diesel is running into a dead end as a light vehicle fuel.  Particulate emissions will kill it.  Don’t be surprised if the next generation Landcruiser has no diesel option due to the inability to meet the next level of emission standards.

____________________________________________________________________________

 

 

Spence's picture

Posts: 268

Date Joined: 09/08/10

bio diesel will be the way

Thu, 2018-01-18 10:08

Immediate future bio diesel and maybe ethanol fuels imo. 

Electric cars still have a massive way to go yet before they're established, 10-20 years minimum. Petrols will phase itself out as bio diesel and ethonols becomes cheaper than crude oil fuels which will continue to go up until we start to switch over to a new fuel source 

 

LPG on the other hand, is on the way out for sure. No longer cheap as it used to be and therefore not justifiable. It's about par with petrol motors.
Diesel engines cheaper to run/maintain and torquey to tow, hence why better choice at present and future. Diesel will never disappear as long as trucks on roads. Imagine the uproar if australia banned diesel engines....won't happen for a few decades

Posts: 366

Date Joined: 23/04/14

Wishful thinking

Thu, 2018-01-18 13:30

 Have a look at the number of new European diesels for sale - only a fraction of what it was five years ago.  Low pressure supercharging and turbocharging is producing petrol engines that are competitive with diesels on fuel economy and far superior on emissions.  

Full electric vehicles are probably closer than 20 years but hybrids are here now.  Diesels simply can’t compete with hybrid petrol/electric power trains.  No one is going to invest heavily in any new fuel technology e.g. biodiesel or ethanol when electric power for everything is on the horizon.  

Note that I’m talking about light vehicles here.  

____________________________________________________________________________

 

 

sea-kem's picture

Posts: 10882

Date Joined: 30/11/09

 And let's not forget the all

Thu, 2018-01-18 14:38

 And let's not forget the all powerful oil companies wanting their product on the market for as long as possible. 

____________________________________________________________________________

Love the West!

Spence's picture

Posts: 268

Date Joined: 09/08/10

Petrol, not sustainable and

Fri, 2018-01-19 08:22

Petrol, not sustainable and cost will continue to rise as a result....don't think you get it, its not about fuel economy, its cost & sustainability as more cars go on the road. Emissions....thats a secondary thought, Lets face it, australia isn't in a place to place restrictions here. Too many old bangers on the road and can't compete with restrictions and age of cars to europe.  NOx levels increasing is the only health scare with diesel at the moment in europe, considering the % weights favoured towards diesel, they aren't banning until 2030. So...already its 12 years just for europe to go electric/alternatives to elminate emissions completely. 

If diesels can't compete, why have diesel trucks? why have diesel cars? Diesel in all australian industries (shipping, generators, mining, construction)? We all must be stupid. . As he's said, oil companies....money talks. 
THis is digressing from the original topic, LPG, which is not even a competitor for the next 2 years, yet alone 20. 

My mate has an electric car, sits in driveway and never moves, hasn't in 3 years. Biggest waste of money he's ever spent. Unreliable, short range...basically a POS. 20 years i think is a fair call for something reliable, affordable and widely accepted. Tesla's aren't exactly within 99% of the australian peoples budget. Hybrids only add extra upfront costs to a vehicle, good for fuel economy only (hence taxi's use them). The've also been around for 10 years, they hasn't exactly taken off. (up front $$$ to save a few $ unless you do high Ks). Furthermore, imagine the new power stations that would need to be built to power a city for electric cars.....the city planning for that is decades away. 

sunshine's picture

Posts: 1707

Date Joined: 03/03/09

Diesel the way forward.?? not in the rest of the world

Wed, 2018-01-17 11:30

Being banned from London and, given this the value of used diesels has dropped through the floor already and new vehicle sales very poor.  You cannot even start your diesel in Finland and Norway if calm conditions and potential for fog expected.  Seems little doubt that electric and hybrid will be the future. 

Swompa's picture

Posts: 2228

Date Joined: 14/10/12

There was an interesting

Wed, 2018-01-17 11:52

There was an interesting article on Electric cars the other day, getting onto the point about tax on fuel ect. Electric car owners don't pay this of course.

Certainly wouldn't mind an electric car for round the town stuff (the company I work for is pushing for them) though I will be curious to see the first hybrid Landcruiser/Patrol ect

How long until we see a charging station at Steep Point?

Posts: 4874

Date Joined: 17/06/10

First off how will you get to steep point

Wed, 2018-01-17 12:46

From all that I have read the range of the elec cars is not all that great when considering the distances of places in WA. I was speaking to a guy who had an elec car at the Mandurah forum, he had just plugged it into a re-fuelling plug (which is free) at the under ground car park.

I asked him how long would it take to take on board a full charge, and I was a bit shocked by the time he told me, just under an hour was his reply. At the under ground car park re charging is free but on the east side of the shopping centre you have to pay for the charge, I don't know what it costs per what ever to charge up. What he was going to do was to buy the morning paper and a cup of coffee to pass the time with while his car was on charge. It appears to me that they are not a quick fill and go proposition at this point in time, plus he said that he couldn't get to work in Perth and then home without a recharge. So it was essential to put it on charge in Perth before heading home.

I didn't get the make of car it was however it was totally elec not a hybrid make so he informed me.

Doc's picture

Posts: 346

Date Joined: 29/05/16

 Yep, seeing a lot of places

Wed, 2018-01-17 12:50

 Yep, seeing a lot of places on the east coast no longer doing lpg, tanks and all being removed. Most having to do 2 different grades of diesel, 3 different grades of petrol, I guess you can only do so much.

Posts: 347

Date Joined: 20/02/11

 I am led to believe that due

Wed, 2018-01-17 15:30

 I am led to believe that due to our reliance on coal in WA, driving an electric car is worse than driving a Hilux in terms of polution and carbon footprint and conversion to l/per 100km is equivalent to well over 10l/per 100km.

 

And I just read this: CO2 emissions during manufacture are equally important as they are created before you drive the new car home.  I believe the number is a minimum of 15 kgs of CO2 per kg of car weight.  A Tesla like all the big V8 SUV's weigjhs approx 2.5 tomnnes.

 

So a 2 tonne car (of any power type) produces at the least 30 tonnes of CO2 before it is sold. That is no far short of what small efficient cars like a Mazda 2 will produce over an average 20 yer operating life.

____________________________________________________________________________

Mulie

Posts: 366

Date Joined: 23/04/14

Efficiency

Thu, 2018-01-18 05:53

It is true that coal is not a very clean fuel source.  However you have to factor in that small internal combustion engines are notoriously inefficient; they normally only convert about 25-30% of the available energy into useful energy.  Fixed power stations are much better as they are able to convert more than 50%.

____________________________________________________________________________

 

 

Swompa's picture

Posts: 2228

Date Joined: 14/10/12

 Most of the states power is

Thu, 2018-01-18 21:15

 Most of the states power is from Gas now. Coal only has 10 or so years so the story goes.

Solar and Wind are contributing more and more

 

Posts: 627

Date Joined: 25/05/12

 The old lpg cabbies will be

Wed, 2018-01-17 15:40

 The old lpg cabbies will be spewing 

sea-kem's picture

Posts: 10882

Date Joined: 30/11/09

 Won't be long before we have

Wed, 2018-01-17 17:31

 Won't be long before we have big electric outboards. 

____________________________________________________________________________

Love the West!

Posts: 347

Date Joined: 20/02/11

 They're up to

Wed, 2018-01-17 19:54

 They're up to 80hp.

https://www.torqeedo.com/en

 

I just want one so I can say "Engage the silent drive" every time I throttle up.

____________________________________________________________________________

Mulie

sea-kem's picture

Posts: 10882

Date Joined: 30/11/09

 Well there ya go!

Wed, 2018-01-17 20:21

 Well there ya go!

____________________________________________________________________________

Love the West!

Spence's picture

Posts: 268

Date Joined: 09/08/10

 That is pretty cool, i do

Fri, 2018-01-19 08:17

 That is pretty cool, i do question though the ability of electricity and salt water to work together without incident. 

jighead's picture

Posts: 502

Date Joined: 03/02/12

Or diesels

Thu, 2018-01-18 08:43

Posts: 9

Date Joined: 23/05/13

I find LPG to be a great

Thu, 2018-01-18 09:01

I find LPG to be a great fuel, my 1989 Nissan Navara that I have driven for 23 years and has had excellent fuel economy.
In the past by calculating how many gallons of petrol I could have purchased for the $ spent and converting km to miles it has returned up to 52 miles per gallon equivalent for the $ spent.
My ute is not fast but I can drag of buses when they have a full load of passengers. Some occasions off road I have had to switch to petrol for more power if required.
The ute has consumed 500 ml of oil every 1200 km since I purchase it in 1995 with 106000 kms on the clock, it mow has over 380000 kms on the clock.
At 300000 kms I had the cyc head off to change the timing chain and sprockets and on this occasion honing marks were still visible in the cylinders.

LPG produces a lot less CO2 than petrol as it has a higher % of H and a lesser % of C.
The engine oil stays remarkably clean between 10000 km services.

In the early 1960s the burn off flair at the BP refinery was huge and easily seen from Fremantle.
I believe the flair was mostley wast petroleum gasses.

A few years ago the Gov was handing out $ 2000 towards installing LPG on the basis that it was a cleaner fuel.
With the increased cost of LPG I think they have more than recouped there generous offer of
$ 2000.

____________________________________________________________________________

 

Rob H's picture

Posts: 4847

Date Joined: 18/01/12

 Just out of curiousity why

Thu, 2018-01-18 13:48

 Just out of curiousity why did you need to remove the head to do the timing chain, besides which in most engines lasts the engines lifetime anyway?

Note also though that the gas extraction produces a fair bit of CO2, hence the need for CO2 sequestration on Barrow Island

____________________________________________________________________________

 Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...

 

 

The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.

Everyone's just winging it.

 

sea-kem's picture

Posts: 10882

Date Joined: 30/11/09

 I was actually working at

Thu, 2018-01-18 14:36

 I was actually working at the Ensign rigs that were doing that Rob. BTW do you know a Barge Skipper Kevin Stone? 

____________________________________________________________________________

Love the West!

Posts: 465

Date Joined: 06/02/14

You have got to be kidding

Thu, 2018-01-18 19:55

You have got to be kidding right Rob? The timing chain lasts the life of the engine is what you mean right? If it is, I've got to say, what a load of completely wrong BS that nonsense is. I do hope I've got the wrong end of your post because you have always struck me as being more intelligent than that. Timing chain last the life of the motor. That's hilarious.

Rob H's picture

Posts: 4847

Date Joined: 18/01/12

 yeah funny.While Im not a

Thu, 2018-01-18 21:36

 yeah funny.

While Im not a car mechanic, I havent seen "timing chain" listed for replacement on the schedules I have looked at or worked on.
Nor have I noticed it on my Suzuki outboards schedule that I can recall, though I dont have it in front of me?
There certainly may be engines that do list it, but what are they?

Perhaps I have worded my reply wrong though, timing chains are generally not listed on the maintenance schedules that Im aware of.

However, as Ive said before, ANYTHING mechanical can fail, no matter how new or flash.

And even if so, why do you need to remove the head to do it?

____________________________________________________________________________

 Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...

 

 

The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.

Everyone's just winging it.

 

Posts: 465

Date Joined: 06/02/14

Rob, you are correct that you

Fri, 2018-01-19 06:47

Rob, you are correct that you wouldn't normally take the head off to replace a timing belt. I should of made that part clear in my first response. The only time you would take the head off to do the job is if the timing belt/chain has broken or skipped a tooth. Timing belts are however a consumable item that have to be replaced at regular intervals if you don't want to risk major engine failure in the middle of nowhere (or the middle of a busy intersection as I have had happen in my youth). You won't find many manufacturers that mention this in the Owners Manual other than a little check box at one of the service intervals in the back of the manual. This is because it is beyond the abilities of most vehicle owners even though it's usually a fairly straight forward job if you are mechanically minded. Pick up the Workshop Service Manual for pretty much any vehicle though & you will find the details in there.

Timing belt replacement intervals for a couple of common vehicles/engines that I have worked on: Toyota Landcruiser 1HZ (& I think but could be wrong, all LC diesel engines) 150,000km. Mitsubishi NK Pajero (& I think most models to 2005 at least) 90,000km. 2003 (most other years to) Mitsubishi Magna - 100,000km. Toyota Rav4 Gen 1 - 90,000km. Nissan TD42 - solid gearing - Never.

The bottom line is if a vehicle has a timing belt (rubber), it will need to be replaced every 80,000km - 150,000km. A vehicle with a timing chain (steel) usually wouldn't need replacing but it is possible for it to be needed, especially if a vehicle is repeatedly driven hard while cold. Solid timing gears, like in the TD42 should never need replacing regardless of how it's driven. If a timing belt goes, the car isn't going anywhere under it's own steam.

All of this is easy to verify & if you have any doubts about what system/maintenance needs to be done to any of your own vehicles, you can download a copy of the "Workshop Service Manual" for the vehicle & check the service information it contains.

Posts: 3592

Date Joined: 01/02/10

Big difference between a

Fri, 2018-01-19 07:09

Big difference between a timing belt and a timing chain.

____________________________________________________________________________

Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?

Rob H's picture

Posts: 4847

Date Joined: 18/01/12

 OK Shimka, I waited politely

Fri, 2018-01-19 12:14

 OK Shimka, I waited politely to see how I'd fucked up so badly before replying.
You need to read your own little ditty before running off at the keyboard

"I have come to realise the "diarrhea of the mouth" is a direct side effect of "s#%t for brains". The best defence is to slap & run."

Maybe just substitute "diarrhea of the keyboard"

If you do not know the difference between a timing belt and a timing chain then

  • you shouldnt be commenting on threads regarding mechanical work about such items
  • You shouldnt run off at the keyboard on shit you know nothing about.
  • Im happy to be corrected or clarified on advice I give out, but your spray of insults and sarcasm came from your OWN lack of reading what was written.

You have made yourself look like a tool, and I dont think I need to describe further your lack of manners.

Perhaps just dont read my posts in future unless you can contain yourself a little.

____________________________________________________________________________

 Give a man a mask, and he'll show you his true face...

 

 

The older you get the more you realize that no one has a f++king clue what they're doing.

Everyone's just winging it.

 

Doc's picture

Posts: 346

Date Joined: 29/05/16

 There will always be diesel,

Fri, 2018-01-19 11:45

 There will always be diesel, trucks, buses, tractors, everything needs diesel. I’ve pulled up at places where there’s only diesel. We go through it a bit, my tank is 1200 litres, my genny pulls from the tank as well, we get anything from 3.5-4.5 kilometres per litre of diesel. So it always going to be a huge part for what we do.

Dale's picture

Posts: 6963

Date Joined: 13/09/05

Fri, 2018-01-19 15:25

 Fuel tank on wheels.

____________________________________________________________________________

"Just because you are a Character, Doesn't mean you have Character."

Mr Wolf

 

 

Doc's picture

Posts: 346

Date Joined: 29/05/16

 You would be surprised at

Sat, 2018-01-20 09:12

 You would be surprised at the size it actually is, sits up back just in front of the rear wheels. Fill from both sides.