POMS cutting off the open cheque book to wellfare!
http://www.watoday.com.au/world/britain-faces-major-welfare-shakeup-20101005-164xj.html?autostart=1
maybe the POMS will lead the way and we are brave enough to follow. This has been an interest of mine after a "friend" of the family decided she would get more money staying at home on a care-grant and other disability pensions than carrying on working. First thing that made me gob-smacked is how she ensured her pensions kept coming, as her kids were now turning 16, so she adopted a baby to ensure she had that income still covered, then her health etc, that she has no intent on losing weight for, as it may cure her diabetes etc, and cause her to lose more welfare etc.
I'm all for my tax dollars helping those in need and needing a helping hand in life when a blow is dealt, but when it comes to keeping lazy buggers who milk the system with such ease, it boils my blood. We are involved with Riding for the Disabled and know how hard it is for real cases to survive with children with extreme needs, then we come across ones like her that milk the system.
When is welfare fair and when is it a rort and just a bludge on tax payers. When should people be forced to work for the dole or welfare cheques etc...???
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
Carry
Posts: 657
Date Joined: 22/04/09
welfare
Should also start with the politicians benefits as well start cutting a few of them and get the rich bastards to pay the right amount of tax also would help but it is a start i suppose. So many what ifs you could go on for ever about it
We feel nothing but a certain difficulty in continuing to stand
scottbec
Posts: 242
Date Joined: 18/01/07
yeah mate I think the same
yeah mate I think the same way -
I am sick of seeing welfare and compo cheats get more out of having >5 kids and a part time job or more for claiming compo for apparent workplace injuries then any of us make in full time employment.
On the other hand people with real dependants or real needs shouldnt have to work 3 jobs (>20 hrs a day) to be able to care for them or themselves.
I honestly wouldn't hesitate in contacting centrestink about your "friend" - I know it sounds like you would be a dobber, but its in everyones best interest - especially hers.
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
yeah Scott, has been
yeah Scott, has been bothering me for sometimes now.
We know of couples with disabled kids needing to both work to survive the costs. Worste is one is always at home when other works, so the day / night shift split leaves them bugger all personal time as a couple. sad.
Have we lost the work ethic in todays people?? is it right to encourage others to bluge off socialty and say ti's ok, cause it's the goverments money???
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
till
Posts: 9358
Date Joined: 21/02/08
Pretty easy to get caught up
Pretty easy to get caught up in that whole welfare cheat bullcrap, especially when they broadcast lies about it on TV every few months on the commercial channels.
Not-So-Easy Money; ABC's Media Watch on ACA.
John the Pom
Posts: 182
Date Joined: 22/10/09
The actual article that you
The actual article that you have orginally linked Tony, is actually about cuts to child tax benefits (along with a load of crap sprouted by someone who doesn't know what he's doing), which has very little to do with what you're talking about.
The child tax benefit was put in place and increased to try and stop stressed out parents from doing two full time jobs to have to support the household and enable one of them to spend a bit more time at home looking after the children instead of putting them in childcare. Now the Conservatives have stopped this if a parent in the family earns £43,876 or more in a year. Nows, the clever bit - if both parents earn under that amount then they can claim the benefit.
Some would say this will be a good thing forcing plenty of skilled women back into the workforce, but, what happens to the kids whose families can't afford childcare? Some go 'feral' and you know the consequences then.
Of course none of this will matter one jot to the Conservatives and a good proportion of their supporters who earn way above that figure anyway. Coming soon - more cuts to other services like the police and NHS, with the politicians telling the poulation to live up to their civic duties blah blah.
The other part of your original post is welfare cheats. Now in the UK you need to go back to the early eighties to understand this. The bitch Thatcher ran the country down and had massive unemployment rates, to try and get this down they actually encouraged people with the slightest wiff of an ilness to go on disability benefits, a culture which has now become engrained into the UK society.
I agree, this needs to be stopped, but as till says, don't believe the media garbage about the benefits system and it's cheats (usually written by the Murdoch owned media), something doesn need to be done but not at the expense of stigmatising everyone.
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
John, it seems to be more
John, it seems to be more than just child care benefits they cutting. Overall the UK has to cut spending by 25% to get out of debt! and with close to 30% of the last budget going to social & welfare issues, you can see they going to do a knife job into that as well.
What got my goat was last year when I was out of work in the GFC period for a few months, I went to the dole office to see if I could get a new starters allowance, only to be told I had not been a permanent resident long enough, yet been a tax payer in Ozz for 6 yr now!! There I saw people with absolutely no intention of working, and only objective they had was free money for no work. Had a chat with a nice official there and she said it boils her too when guys and girls just refuse to work and keep taking money for nothing, with a system that once you in it, it's near impossible to get booted out of it.
As for the UK, with family that side I know what you on about, some will work hard and make a means for themselves and other mates of their just sit back, watch the football and hold out a hand asking for more welfare payments cause they too...this or that or what ever to work.
ps before you boot Thatcher so hard, don't forget the union boys the broke the country in the late 70's and early 80's. I know a lot of older engineers that had workshops and factories close around them due to union strikes and silly demands from Arthur Scargill and his merry lynch men!
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
dodgy
Posts: 4577
Date Joined: 01/02/10
Newstart? Really? I would
Newstart? Really? I would push trolley through a shopping centre car park before lowering myself to signing up for the dole.
Yes, I was out of work for a couple of months over the downturn. I was fortunate enough to have enough savings and was able to relocate the family to where there was work until things picked up a bit.
Does anyone know where the love of god goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
I did not need the new
I did not need the new starters allowance, but I had an inusrance policy that would payout if I did qualify for new-starters being out of work. At the end of the day I wasted 3 years premiums on a income protection policy as it would not pay out as
1, I was contracting before and
2, did not qualify for new-starters, which they wanted before paying out under hardship clause. So I was stuffed and cancelled the policy the same day!
So be warned about income protection, read the fine print about when they will not pay out!
I never got to push shopping trollesy ( not counting the Jeep...lol) , but I did do three months of labour work on daily hire, so not to proud to work hard with my hands mate :-0
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
John the Pom
Posts: 182
Date Joined: 22/10/09
Tony, the unions needed to
Tony, the unions needed to be dealt with, but at what cost?
There is nothing wrong with a union when it fulfills it's true cause, but these boys did need slapping down a bit.
Don't get carried away with the lies printed about that though (Murdoch again, maybe a theme developing here), the real reason for smashing the unions though was to move right across to the 'free market economy', as she had already agreed to do with Reagan. In doing this she utterly obliterated several areas of work: shipbuilding, mining, steelmaking and a few others.
This led to the loss of trades that had been around for hundreds of years and the destruction of communities and in some cases whol villages and towns, but this all occurred in the north of England which are all Labour heartlands, so it didn't matter, to her.
Believe me mate, what the unions did to your mates wasn't a patch on what Thatcher did. Try googling Durham miners strike and The Met police.
Also, I wouldn't believe the (murdoch, again - really) inspired press about the welfare fatcs. Yes, it does need sorting out, but not to the extent that they would have you believe. Wouldn't it have been easier to increase funding (instead of cutting!!), to HMRC and let them go after the hundreds of billions in unpaid corporate tax - the amount I'm talking about here would have paid the welfare bill alone for a good few years or would have paid off a significant proportion of the debt?
Maybe doing that would have upset 'Dave' and Gideons corporate mates too much?
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
don't get me going on
don't get me going on corperate tax and a flat tax rate for all. I still feel that any tax system with deductions and ability to move income around is a world of trouble and cheating. For me it would be if you under $50k a year a flat 12% tax rate and if you over $50k then you pay 16% flat rate on your total salary package, that way we all pay our way and the rich pay more tax by the fact that it's a percentage of their overall generation of wealth. Same goes for coperate tax, should be on turn over flat rate and not on final "profit" as many do, then hide lots of dollars in corp loss scams.
but back to the issue of welfare state vs working for your dosh! How do we encourage a new generation of youth to be working for their future when sitting on ya @ss and getting dole is so easy? pride is one thing we need to cultivate in young workers, but greed and the need for best first on credit etc,,, is that a good thing too??
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
pale ale
Posts: 1755
Date Joined: 02/01/10
I think all "able bodied"
I think all "able bodied" unemployed should be doing a minimum 4-6 hours a week to earn their handouts.
How about they start a nation wide revegetation programme.
Dole bludgers are trained to collect native seeds, propogate then plant out the road sides and any other place where a tree will fit.
This will also help with the "so called" climate change brought about by carbon dioxide, combat salinity, create bio diversity to enhance our native wildlife.
Why is this not happening?????
till
Posts: 9358
Date Joined: 21/02/08
Welcome back to the
Welcome back to the future!
That was the Landcare and Environment Action Program (LEAP) run for long term youth unemployed, funding to administer the program was reduced in 96 when little johnnie was elected and axed in 97 or so.
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
funny you should raise this
funny you should raise this one, as there is a strong ( stupid) mindset in some government agencies that planting trees = less water for the humans! :-O
yes we heard from a planner that they do not want wide spread tree planting in catchment areas as the trees suck up all the water. Well some one forgot to tell them that trees need that water to turn CO2 back into oxygen and carbon in their leaves and branches!!!
As for work for dole, you dam right they should. I know young disabled people that try to do a full days work to earn their own way, yet others sit on their @ss and cry "poor me" and hold out a hand when they more than capable of a days work. We have farmers crying out for labour to pick crops, prune trees and vines etc. At least a third of the vines in Swan Valley are now under threat of " no labour" to service the harvests. and when they do find people to work, then they want silly wages too boot!
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
carnarvonite
Posts: 8667
Date Joined: 24/07/07
Imported labour
If some employer paid decent wages they would get the employees they need without having search overseas to hire.---try crab processors? crab deckhands? prawn processors? prawn trawler deckies?[ eho get a minimum of $170 a day while the Aussies on a percentage [flat wage not offered] were getting half that and were receiving a percentage when they were catching good numbers AND had their housing supplied.
These positions were not even advertised locally or in the West Australian for locals to apply.
All this is to maximize profits at the expense of the local workforce and proudly supported by Johnny Howard and his cronies.