crayfish fines
went for a swim today caught mi 12 crays had to chuck 5 back got too many
so did the right thing. on the way in we were stopped by fisheries they searched the boat checked safty gear etc.... then asked how did we catch the crays, told him diving there was me my old man(61) and my 6 yo boy on board i had a licience my old boy has a liciece no prob..(haha)
then he asked if my old boy dived i laughed and said he cant even swim,
he then told me i was 6 crays over my limit. i was only allowed 6 that i had caught not allowed to give him six. what the f ck is the world coming to. after reading my panthlet recieved from the fishies i couldnt find anything like that on it, can any body tell me where it is? next time i go out i will have to go by myself, struggle to get my self suitted up hope the boat doesnt drag anchor or sink catch on fire and the hooker continues to work while im under, i dont get cramp and cant get back to the boat, get bite or stung by one of many dangerous sea creatures. if you ask me even though he isnt diving for the crays he is doing his part. wot do you guys think am i being greeding or is it a good thing, cost of maintinance to dive gear, boat, vehicle, petrol,
to me three crays for me and three crays for my saftey patner i could buy them cheaper in coles and not have to risk my life...(but i do love diving)
wots your views love to hear them, where you aware of this rule?
dazza
All your gyprock needs
feral1975
Posts: 638
Date Joined: 22/02/07
I think it's fair call if
I think it's fair call if he didn't attempt to get his bag , when we dive there is mainly two people and we always get our bags between us. On the safety side of things I and a lot of other people here dive alone but have to be aware of the the water and conditions and always check the anchor first thing when I dive down. The cost of maintainence to dive gear , boat vehicle and then petrol is one which everyone wear's if they own a boat or dive .
I wish I had an emo lawn so it would cut it self
Willy
Posts: 219
Date Joined: 10/04/08
Bag limits
Mate,
I can understand your plight however, I don't think anyone can cover the cost fuel, boat, car gear etc by getting crays. I empathise, but, what if everyone paid for extra licences and caught crays on their behalf. Bit different when there is a boat limit, but for a shore dive, my bag limit is 6. A nefarious individual could licence his 10 kids, mum and dad and Mrs and catch 84 crays!!!
I have heard a couple of people lately getting stung for this. I suppose it boils down to a licence, issued to one person to get 6 crays, simply.
regards
Willy
Willy
Lord of the Squid Rings,
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BQ544
Posts: 361
Date Joined: 22/10/06
Dazza how much was the
Dazza how much was the fine?
And on rules, is the new home possession limit 24 crays per person that live there or 24 crays per license holder?
Another gray area that's not stated clearly in the rules
Dazza
Posts: 126
Date Joined: 25/09/07
lucky
the fine is $200.00 per cray over the limit plus one fine of or up to $5000.00 @ court for first offence, the fisheries officer was very reasonable didnt fine me just a warning and let us keep the crays.
All your gyprock needs
fishy fingers
Posts: 1719
Date Joined: 28/04/07
Pot's
You should have told him your old man caught his in pots!
To all the virgins..............Thanks for nothing!
damo6230
Posts: 2029
Date Joined: 07/06/08
you can still go out with a deckie
you just can't give him the excess crays once you get your 6. if they are happy to help and not get a cray then no prob. if they want a cray they gotta dive for themselves.
i'm happy to be in the water.....
jersey
Posts: 393
Date Joined: 12/06/08
I think you was shafted
But at least the fisheries were decent enough to warn you,and not fine you,man,the rules and laws and restrictions that we now have to live with would make lesser civilized
men,revolt
HuggyB
Posts: 2515
Date Joined: 03/08/08
lucky you weren't fined
But the rules are pretty simple.
The Terrorist - coming to a fishing spot near you.........
BQ544
Posts: 361
Date Joined: 22/10/06
No I disagree Huggy B you
No I disagree Huggy B you read the rule changes they sent out and they are very vague!!!!!
HuggyB
Posts: 2515
Date Joined: 03/08/08
you'd be taking the piss
if you think it's OK to catch fish/crays/marron/crabs beyond your limit and then farm the excess off to other people. I know it happens, but that doesn't make it right.
The Terrorist - coming to a fishing spot near you.........
DezzyTootoo
Posts: 24
Date Joined: 03/07/08
I am with you Dazza
All I can say is olive oil , all purpose seasoning ,lemons and a heap of bullshit !!
roberta
Posts: 2773
Date Joined: 08/07/08
and vinegar
SPEWIE LEWIE
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mako magic
Posts: 5785
Date Joined: 03/08/05
not trying to open another
not trying to open another can of worms here, but suppose its similar to say taking a 5 y/o kid out fishing with you and because he is on the boat trying to bring home 4 10kg plus dhuies you caught and saying yeah we are entitiled them, even though in all honestly you know the kid didnt catch them.
this is just looking it in perspective sorry
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AbooAyesha
Posts: 38
Date Joined: 02/12/08
Interesting
Is the contention in the fact that Dazza's father had actually made no direct effort in the actual activity needed to catch the crayfish?
If that is the case, then the comparison to two people fishing and sharing the total bag limit is not the same. I do understand that the deckhand is contributing to the activity but it is not really directly comparable to two people actually fishing with equipment.
I think the problem is exactly that: the person is not directly involved in the activity (diving) in order the earn the reward (crayfish). I do not think the fisheries officer would have had a problem had Dazza's father actually dived; regardless of how many crayfish each individual actually caught. I hope my point is understandable.(Also note that I do not necessarily agree with sharing bag limits, either; just making a particular point)
I also can in no way condone dishonesty in order to get around what someone thinks is unfair. That is no better than the people who go over their bag limits deliberately.
David.
damo6230
Posts: 2029
Date Joined: 07/06/08
enforcement
If you think the rules are vague then ask questions and contact the fisheries first before you head out.
I am an enforcement officer and all legislation is "Vague" and it's my job to interpret them.......
the officer was very reasonable!!
it is the sole responsibility of the person to comply; the agency just regulates the law.
PLEASE NOTE: no personal attack(s) intended. just education
kane
Posts: 1752
Date Joined: 07/12/08
next time
Next time have a second set of dive gear on board, splash your dad in the face with water, tell fisheries he dived for his share, no problem.
I think you are correct, it is rediculous, and i think your dad earned his share by assisting as required, he has a licence, he was onboard and you had your combined boat limit, people need to get a grip.
Goooooone Fishin!
Gooooone Fishin!
Wazo
Posts: 84
Date Joined: 12/06/08
Licence fees
Fisheries took the money off your old man for his licence, no questions asked.
Two licences on the boat= 12 cray boat limit, no questions asked.
Seems pretty straightforward if you ask me.
I might be paranoid but does it seem like they want the pro's to have a better season and are restricting the rec's as much as possible?
AbooAyesha
Posts: 38
Date Joined: 02/12/08
Wazo, Sorry but I have to
Wazo,
Sorry but I have to disagree. That is like speeding on the roads and being pulled up by a police officer and then complaining that you are licensed to drive and you paid for the privilege to do so. Effectively saying: you paid for the license, so you should be able to drive anyway you want, shouldn't you?
It really is up to the license holder to find out what you can and cannot do under the terms of that license. Breaking the terms and then blaming the enforcement of the law seems somewhat unreasonable.
That is in general terms. Specifically, it is unfortunate that Dazza had to find out the "hard way", although he definitely did not find out the hardest way, due to the reasonable actions of the fisheries officer.
If nothing else, this thread will hopefully let everyone know some specifics of the license and what you can and cannot do; maybe even spur some license holders to investigate further as to what you are permitted under the license, leading to less unhappy surprises ie. fines.
And I must again state my apprehension with people suggesting dishonesty in retaliation.
Regards,
David.
hlokk
Posts: 4292
Date Joined: 04/04/08
Kind of back to a point Matt
Kind of back to a point Matt (mako) mentioned. What do the regs say if your kid was a little bit older and you needed to help them a little bit (e.g. taking over when they got too tired, or holding the rod while they wind)? Whose catch is it and when does it switch over? Could be a bit of legislative can of worms with you handing the rod to your mate for the last meter to count it as his catch. Though, being enforced by fisheries officers would probably mean that there would be some disgression. E.g. they could decide whether it was reasonable to share the fight (e.g. the other person wasnt as capable for some reason). Might not fly to well for healthy strong adults (unless perhaps you're chasing really really large tuna :p, but they why would you need more than one)
--------------
Always interested in someone to go fishing with
AbooAyesha
Posts: 38
Date Joined: 02/12/08
Hlokk, This grey area is
Hlokk,
This grey area is obviously of concern with the ever smaller bag limits, what is considered "catching your own fish"? If someone does bag out and their rod bends again, can they pass the rod after hooking? Close to the boat? Should they remove their rods from the water?
Maybe Damian can shed some light (if he is not restricted by legislation/contractual obligation) as to how he would enforce the rule?
alfred
Posts: 3097
Date Joined: 12/01/07
Catch and release? For
Catch and release?
For some it's about a feed, for some it the sport.
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hlokk
Posts: 4292
Date Joined: 04/04/08
Thats it alfred. Fishing for
Thats it alfred. Fishing for me, is about fun first, and if I get a feed, its a bonus
. Besides, i'm not a fan of frozen fish, only really fresh, so I think i've kept my limit once (keeping two dhuies)
Nothing wrong with getting a feed being the primary factor (just as long as you dont rape and pillage)
--------------
Always interested in someone to go fishing with
Pete D
Posts: 1681
Date Joined: 07/06/07
3 generations in the one
3 generations in the one boat catching a feed of aussie seafood – how good is that! While 95+% of the crayfish catch goes overseas – its all about $$$.
Cheers PeteFaulkner Family
Posts: 18059
Date Joined: 11/03/08
you would be surprised how
you would be surprised how much gets sent over east from wa
aparantly they are sposed to be nicer eating than their eastern states cousins
RUSS & SANDY
"A family that fishes together stays together"
RUSS and SANDY. A family that fishes together stays together
Paul G
Posts: 5215
Date Joined: 12/12/07
You were not over your bag
You were not over your bag limit for the lisences on board. you were just cought off gaurd. Second set of gear on board and wet the hair as you come into the ramp ,there is no drama dad was snorkeling for his crays ,problem solved.
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Wazo
Posts: 84
Date Joined: 12/06/08
aboo
Took my old man out to pull OUR pots. He's 70yr's old and I'm in the prime of my life.
Dad handles the boat and I pull OUR 4pots. Under the terms of the law I can only keep 6crays and he gets jack.
What a load of horses#$t.
Let's not get too overcomplicated here, If i go fishing with the boy's we split the catch because theres more to fishing than just landing the catch.
If I catch crays then we split the catch,simple.
If Fisheries want to screw us out of our "shared resource" then all that will happen is people will cheat the system.
Too much politics entering into what is meant to be a recreational past-time.
AbooAyesha
Posts: 38
Date Joined: 02/12/08
Wazo, That is different to
Wazo,
That is different to the diving scenario and similiar to the fishing/deckie example which I can't comment on. I agree that the example you give now is a grey area where both people are essential to the activity (pulling the pots).
But I, as mentioned above, only object in terms of the diving scenario. I hope that is clear. As in, you are direct part of the activity to get the reward, you get the reward.
I think the problem (whether the present management is feasible or not) is that people exploit the system if they can. You need to balance all of the factors: size of the resource, number of people using the resource, etc.
Unfortunately due to exploitation (whether commercial or greedy recreational fishermen) you need to have limits. The fact that people ignore these limits, pressuring the stock, results in more draconian laws. A vicious cycle.
So the more you cheat the system, the worse it will probably get. It doesn't make sense. Whether I agree with the current system or not, I will stick by it. Cheating doesn't get anyone anywhere, long-term.
Any way, if you disagree with the laws, hey you can vote them out, right? That is how democracy works, isn't it?
David.
hlokk
Posts: 4292
Date Joined: 04/04/08
I think the problem is more
I think the problem is more sharing the catch for the purposes of keeping more fish on board. I struggle to remember the times when fish fillets werent divied out at the end of the day.
--------------
Always interested in someone to go fishing with
damo6230
Posts: 2029
Date Joined: 07/06/08
enforcement
did you bother to ask the officer why he let you off?
I know.
but he has now educated you to the reality and INTERPRETATION of the licence (and the rest of us).
be grateful the lesson was VERY cheap. They have powerful confiscation laws........
Personally, and I state personally, be honest to yourself and all will have fish for tomorrow.
HuggyB
Posts: 2515
Date Joined: 03/08/08
like I said
we have all probably done it, but it doesn't make it right. And there is no point bitching about being caught out. Be thankful you didn't get fined and make sure you do the right thing next time.
The Terrorist - coming to a fishing spot near you.........
Paul G
Posts: 5215
Date Joined: 12/12/07
I meet a guy at the ramp
I meet a guy at the ramp once he was sleeping on his boat in the marina. He payed his ramp fee at 500pm he slept the night went fishing the next day. He said he did that so he could bring in two boat limits as he was on the water overnight, two days catch. If the fisheries check him he told them to check with the ramp guy as proof of his trip over night morally wrong but within the law I guess. i agree with the shared catch as everyone gets a feed . As long as all are fishing or diving doing there bit, or driving the boat, while the pots are being pulled, holding the boat on the spot so the others will catch the fish. I have had days when I have not put a line in the water. But if I had not held the boat in place due to the conditions, then we would have caught nothing, for this I received part of the catch this was my contribution to the days fishing..
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saltatrix
Posts: 1081
Date Joined: 30/03/08
he then told me i was 6
he then told me i was 6 crays over my limit. i was only allowed 6 that i had caught not allowed to give him six. what the f ck is the world coming to. after reading my panthlet recieved from the fishies i couldnt find anything like that on it, can any body tell me where it is?
This is the same rule as when theres 4 people on the beach and one bloke who collected all the abalone. I saw fisheries point out that the other people hadnt actually aqcuired the abalone themselves. So the person was charged with have 5 bag limits of abalone.
People cant aqcuire abalone for other licence holders. They have to get wet and retrieve thye abs themselves. Me no speak engwish doesnt cut it.
Same same but different.
Angling tourism is worth $10 billion to the Australian economy - 90000 jobs; more than any sport; spread the word
saltatrix
Posts: 1081
Date Joined: 30/03/08
I meet a guy at the ramp
I meet a guy at the ramp once he was sleeping on his boat in the marina. He payed his ramp fee at 500pm he slept the night went fishing the next day.
Hence the introduction of a possession limit.
Angling tourism is worth $10 billion to the Australian economy - 90000 jobs; more than any sport; spread the word
saltatrix
Posts: 1081
Date Joined: 30/03/08
Took my old man out to pull
Took my old man out to pull OUR pots. He's 70yr's old and I'm in the prime of my life.
Dad handles the boat and I pull OUR 4pots. Under the terms of the law I can only keep 6crays and he gets jack.
What a load of horses#$t.
Hes talking diving, your talking pulling pots? Is this not a different scenario?
Angling tourism is worth $10 billion to the Australian economy - 90000 jobs; more than any sport; spread the word
fishy fingers
Posts: 1719
Date Joined: 28/04/07
Not the same at all
sitting on the beach is not contributing in anyway at all unless they drove the car to get there, His dad was on the boat helping out in the mission to catch crays ie helping him get his gear on and of, being onboard as a saftey point of view and probably taking them off his son when he surfaced before his son climbed back on board!
o
To all the virgins..............Thanks for nothing!
UncleStu
Posts: 313
Date Joined: 18/05/08
Dont be sorry Aboo Ayesha
Say it how it is .With reguards to the monkey comment .Im supprised a regulator missed it .and diddent have it removed .Some people like to make grey areas to accomodate their own wants, needs and greed .
Cheers Uncle Stu
saltatrix
Posts: 1081
Date Joined: 30/03/08
His dad was on the boat
His dad was on the boat helping out in the mission to catch crays ie helping him get his gear on and of, being onboard as a saftey point of view and probably taking them off his son when he surfaced before his son climbed back on board!
It appears diving and the task of pot pulling is a different scenario?
Diving means aqcuiring them yourself?
Pots involves a driver and the pot puller? Technically the licence holders should swap when pulling the pots?
Its an interesting one anyrate.
Angling tourism is worth $10 billion to the Australian economy - 90000 jobs; more than any sport; spread the word
Dazza
Posts: 126
Date Joined: 25/09/07
some
some interesting views there, i think im goin take up shooting, least if i am comforted about the rules, i will be the one holding the gun!!! lol
cheers
dazza
All your gyprock needs
damo6230
Posts: 2029
Date Joined: 07/06/08
last words of wisdom
as soon as you pay for your licence you accept the terms and conditions of the licence.
this includes all compliance, enforcement and LAWS
fact of life unfortunately.
judge don't care who signed it when he decides; as long as its the same bloke pleading in front of him!!
if ya not sure don't sign
Jim
Posts: 1336
Date Joined: 05/05/06
Yeesh! I guess if your
Yeesh!
I guess if your diving for them you can only put six in your bag which would be your limit.
Dazza, If fisheries did underwater patrols you'd get busted!
Bend over
Bodie
Posts: 3758
Date Joined: 05/11/07
Its interesting to read
Its interesting to read everyones different opinions and interrpretations of the rules..
Who says the rules are not vague.........
I think its the fishereies responsibility to make the rules and regulations as understanding as possible to the people who have t abide by them.
Admittedly some are very easy to understand and take in, but others are not.
I personally dont a huge difference in 1 person diving, and 1 person ont he boat.
Ideally you SHOULD NOT dive without having atleast 1 person aboard the boat aswell.
But when i go pull our cray pots im the skipper, i dive the boat, i hold the boat in position. The other guy on the boat pulls all 4 pots. Now following the rules supplied by fisheries, my mate could be fined for pulling more than 2 pots, and also pulling pots that do not have his float on them....that how i read the rules.
Obviously this is not the case but you can see how rules can be interpretted the wrong way.
Rules are rules and they are there for a reason, but with the condition of them, there need to be leniency in them, which was shown with this incident.
but at the end of the day
Cray fish
95% catch professionals and exported over seas
5% recreational.
There is not a chance in hell what was done here is even going to make the slightest dent in these figures.
But agree with some others..... Fun fisrt, fish second..... but more fun is had when you have something to eat aswell :)
7739ian
Posts: 948
Date Joined: 25/06/08
Lets scrap all the rules
then you won't have interpretation issues or waste a great deal of time trying to bend them. Seems pretty clear cut to me - if you did not catch them they are not yours and whoever did is in breach of their license if they have achieved their own bag limit.
Adam Gallash
Posts: 15652
Date Joined: 29/11/05
Yep
Your pretty lucky to get off thats for sure as the letter of the law goes.
And Jes, I think Aboo's comments have shown that he's here for genuine discussion, not for another purpose.
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Andy Mac
Posts: 4778
Date Joined: 03/02/06
Stick to the topic please or posts will be deleted
Cheers
Cheers
Andy Mac (Fishwrecked Reeltime Editor & Forum Moderator)
Youngest member of the Fishwrecked Old Farts Club
Pete D
Posts: 1681
Date Joined: 07/06/07
Just info Andy - there is a
Just info Andy - there is a boat limit of 12 currently; no matter how many licenced people are on board. This also applied previously when the 'boat' limit was 16.
ie 20 licenced divers on a charter boat. Only 12 crays can be onboard at any time currently.
Cheers Pete
Andy Mac
Posts: 4778
Date Joined: 03/02/06
Thanks Pete
You can tell I don't crayfish, so thanks for clearing that up.
Cheers
Cheers
Andy Mac (Fishwrecked Reeltime Editor & Forum Moderator)
Youngest member of the Fishwrecked Old Farts Club
HuggyB
Posts: 2515
Date Joined: 03/08/08
Maybe a name change?
To "Angry Andy Mac"?
And regardless of the banter etc, I think everyone in the thread now has a better understanding of the rules if they didn't already have so and how they are interpreted by Fisheries which is good in the overall scheme of thing.
The Terrorist - coming to a fishing spot near you.........
Andy Mac
Posts: 4778
Date Joined: 03/02/06
I like that Huggy
Cheers
Cheers
Andy Mac (Fishwrecked Reeltime Editor & Forum Moderator)
Youngest member of the Fishwrecked Old Farts Club
HuggyB
Posts: 2515
Date Joined: 03/08/08
sounds tough Andy
But then I see that little cherub face of yours in your avatar and the tough image disappears.
Roll on Friday so I can at least get my pots in the water and be able to attend to them without work getting in the way. Slowest week ever....
The Terrorist - coming to a fishing spot near you.........
Andy Mac
Posts: 4778
Date Joined: 03/02/06
I'll have you know I've got a beard now.
Cheers
Cheers
Andy Mac (Fishwrecked Reeltime Editor & Forum Moderator)
Youngest member of the Fishwrecked Old Farts Club
alfred
Posts: 3097
Date Joined: 12/01/07
I have seen Andy's beard -
I have seen Andy's beard - it's the real thing.
Think you look good with it Andy!
18 Outrage, Johnson 140hp 4stroke and 190 Outrage, 150 Mercury Verado