Q for people who are better than me at photography - fps
Submitted by HuggyB on Fri, 2009-10-23 15:54
If I wanted a camera to take action shots in exmouth of billies jumping for example, what is the minimum frame rate I should be looking at? Obviously more is better, but more = more $, and generally speaking I dont take a lot of pics aside from fishing ones.
At this stage its likely to rule out a DSLR as you are going to need a fair outlay to get a decent frame rate in burst from my limited research. I know it will make you DSLR fanatics feel dirty, but what camera in the compact arena would you recommend to get the job done? And if you must, feel free to try and convince me I need a DSLR and recommend one also.
____________________________________________________________________________
The Terrorist - coming to a fishing spot near you.........
jay_burgess
Posts: 4648
Date Joined: 18/08/05
I wouldn't bother with a
I wouldn't bother with a point and shoot for getting jump shots, you'll need to use manual settings to get a decent result.
cen
Posts: 53
Date Joined: 29/11/08
dslr v point and shoot
champ the one thing that will cause more dramas (than all the other reason, you should buy a slr for sports/fast moving subjects) is that point and shoots have a lag that is built in to them, causing you to miss pictures that with an slr you would have caught. it becomes almost chance or luck instead of precision and skill of catching that shot. with an slr, the processor is much faster and there is no lag on you shots! as soon as you finger hits the button the shutter has fired and you are on to a winner. there are alot of other reasons but that is definitely the main one. pm me and i will give you a site to make your camera gear alot cheaper, i buy all my gear from it. good luck
Chuditch
Posts: 114
Date Joined: 15/07/09
A subject I can help someone
A subject I can help someone out on this site. I dont think you could get a great sequence of a billie jumping with much less than 5fps. With 3fps you could the desired result, but you would really have to time when you start the sequence. I used to take alot of surf photos and my Nikon D80 would often become quite frusting with 3fps, still produced some good results along the way.
When taking burst shots the major factor is the speed in which your memory card can process the data. If it cant process the data fast enough the camera will slow up the photo rate accordingly.
The olympus point and shoot cameras that are shock proof and water proof are good (especially for the boat). Would struggle to get you a jump shot, but boat captures would be fine.
DSLR for the value you cant go past the Canon 1000d, great camera. Whats your budget though?
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
only a Digital SLR can do
only a Digital SLR can do that,
good cheap deal is the pentax and sony camera's
Don't be fooled by how many mega-pixels etc they have, as it only effects pic quality when you enlarge bigger than A3 size.
I have also seen that you must make sure you can shoot high resolution ( ie better than std JPEG) at 3 frames per second to get good shots ( I shot 3 fps and can get 10 shots in the buffer before it stops). Also check how many is the max number of frames in a row you can shoot, some are limited by the buffer memory size.
If money is not a problem, the Nikon's are the best in my view,
but for budget restrained people like us, I'd go the Pentax, K200D super, with the lens kit that has shake stabilizer function. You can get a good bundle for under $600 if you shop around.
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
kaney68
Posts: 401
Date Joined: 29/07/08
shoot hi res ??
Tony, what do you mean by shoot high res (better than std jpeg) ??
Are you refering to camera RAW or high JPEG ??
Personally.... no real reason to shoot RAW..
All the stuff I shoot is in high JPEG.
I recon my camera would sh!titself if I selected RAW... it wouldn't know what hit it !
Not for the fact it can't/wont handle it... just for the fact it NEVER gets used !
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
most DSLR's allow you to
most DSLR's allow you to pick the resolution you shoot at.
RAW formats are only good for single frame shots, unless you got top of the range camera's. good budget DSLR allow you to use half the pixels when shooting high fps, this allows the pixels not being used to cool-off, for next shot, preventing hot-pixel over exposure.
Also you have a quality level ( normally shown in stars... 1,2,3 etc.)
Very few DSLR's can shoot 4~5fps for more than two to three seconds max at max mega-pixels and 3 star quality jpeg.
A camera like my Pentax K100D super, when set down to 4megapixels and on 2 star quality, still returns bloody good quality pictures, but allows the buffer to shoot more frames, before stopping to save.
If you play with the functions of pixels used and quality saved, you will be surprised how much of the "socalled" 10 or 12 megpixels they sell you, you actually need to produce top shots. Just my view, Guys like Troy that shoot PRO shots can comment better,
cheers
Tony
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
sunshine
Posts: 2558
Date Joined: 03/03/09
Just video with high quality unit
Plenty of programmes availabe to take stills from video and Adobe has a meshing programme to de-frag any movement (come on you techies what is it called) - works an absolute treat anyway
HuggyB
Posts: 2515
Date Joined: 03/08/08
I figured it was DSLR territory
was trying to convince myself a top end p+s with a high burst would be able to do the job. But deep down, i knew it was not the case.
Ah well, will have to investigate how I can run it through work as an expense. I do take a lot of pics of our products installed, but really a $2500 DSLR is probably overkill. I wonder how the ATO would view it?
Now where is my accountant's number.........
The Terrorist - coming to a fishing spot near you.........
kaney68
Posts: 401
Date Joined: 29/07/08
Now.. if it's a business related expense...
that's a different story
Don't forget about the 50% tax break incentive !!
But for what you are chasing with a decent lens setup, realistically $1500-$1800 would suffice.
Don't get too caught up about suggestions that you should go for Nikon, you should go Canon, Pentax is better, or Sony, etc......
Most cameras in the price range you would be chasing are fairly standardised.
Some have IS built into the lenses, whilst others have IS built into the body..
Some will have HD video, others won't..
IF you are a fan of IS, maybe worth looking at systems that have them inbuilt, that way every lens on the camera becomes an IS lens !
Best thing to do is read up on systems in your price range, make a list of what you want, then get into a store and have a play...
You will soon feel what is right for you..what fits best in your hands...
If you need some futher advice Huggy, just drop me a PM..
cheers,
Paul
Colin Hay
Posts: 10407
Date Joined: 23/10/07
If it you can tie in the work relationship I don't think
you would have an issue with the ATO Huggy (I don't).
Moderator. Proud member of the Fishwrecked "Old Farts". Make sure your subscribed to Fishwrecked Reeltime http://fishwrecked-reeltime.com/
Chuditch
Posts: 114
Date Joined: 15/07/09
You wouldnt need to spend
You wouldnt need to spend that much.
Check out this site http://www.dpreview.com
A lot of great photogs on there from all over the world, everyone is very helpful with advice
Faulkner Family
Posts: 17872
Date Joined: 11/03/08
get yourself a video camera
get yourself a video camera and just take still shots from that. killing 2 birds with one stone. with the right program you can get some great pics from video
RUSS and SANDY. A family that fishes together stays together
Feral
Posts: 1508
Date Joined: 01/11/06
id think that a full HD
id think that a full HD video cam would be the way to go here .. ive got a simple panasonic still camera that is water/shock proof and it takes 720p video .. ive used it off the yak for salmon videos and skippy etc and its bloody great ... only down fall is the zoom but a proper HD video camera will fix that easy. just look at the sd card models if you head down this track as the hard drive cams still compress the picture quality.
till
Posts: 9358
Date Joined: 21/02/08
RAW is the choice if you're
RAW is the choice if you're serious about doing a lot of post-processing
PilbaraBrad
Posts: 3628
Date Joined: 16/05/07
If you want to do any post
If you want to do any post processing at all you should shoot in RAW, shooting in RAW effectivly gives you an "untouched shot" while JPEG or any other format is already processed to some degree by the camera .
till
Posts: 9358
Date Joined: 21/02/08
And post is so important,
And post is so important, what you get thru the lense is just half of it. The underwater photography guys seem to do a lot of post and are really good at it.
HuggyB
Posts: 2515
Date Joined: 03/08/08
but continuous shooting in RAW
is very limiting no? Unless you sepnd a motza right and get a high end DLSR?
Right now, I think getting these high end ones will see me waaaaaaaaaaaaay out of my depth. I'm leaning towards a 450d (body only), the few extra pixels and video of the 500d IMO aren't worth the extra $150 or so...
What glass then I guess?
The Terrorist - coming to a fishing spot near you.........
kaney68
Posts: 401
Date Joined: 29/07/08
RAW is so over rated !!
Huggy,
Get yourself a decent editing suite such as Photoshop or even Photoshop elements.
Sure..shooting RAW will give you an untouched image.
.... shooting high JPEG will not be an issue - trust me !!
Having owned DLSR's for the last 11 years, I can honestly say that I have used RAW less than 5 times.... and that was only to satisfy my own curiosity !
For me, I can't really see the point.. It chews up a bit more space and chews up more time (buffer filling and post processing).
And the result is I can get an excellent quality image from a high level JPEG, with the minimum effort - ie: no stuffing around !
But what do I know.... I only shoot for a living for one of the worlds largest Photo agencies.
You mentioned you're looking at the 450D... a great little camera.
Manufacturers are changing models almost monthly it seems.. There are many brands and models that all fit in around the 450D..
Maybe a step up in level and price is the Pentax K7 with a 17-70 f4 and 55-300 f4-5.6 lens option. If you want another members opinion pm PeteD.
Or if you want the ducks guts...wait till December and Canon release the new 1D mk4..... but I think the body only price of around $5500 might scare you off
I guess it all comes down to your own budget.
thebear
Posts: 246
Date Joined: 09/06/07
I use the 350D No problems
I use the 350D No problems at all. I was gonna upgrade to the 450 but found out that there is stuffall diff ( only for the really techy top end stuff) so for what I do great camera. I got the jumping maccies easily and they looked quite in focus as well as zero blurrr.
Oh and I shoot in RAW with the highest res/quality
______________________________________________
I JUST LOVE THE SMELL OF NAPALM IN THE MORNING
MEMBER FFC BLOCK 212
CPBA MEMBER
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
don't forget that as a model
don't forget that as a model is discontinued, it is discounted by up to 50%
I bought my camera three months after they dis-continued that model. Nothing wrong with it, just a more expensive / flashy big brother came to town.
Best deep I got was at Big W of all places!!! yes, I got the last one they had in stock at the branch, with a shop soiled box, discounted by 50% from original price... shop smart!
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
HuggyB
Posts: 2515
Date Joined: 03/08/08
Cheers Kaney68
I'm thinking I might just get my feet wet at the shallow end of the pool first with a beginner DSLR (450d), but invest in good quality glass - then I can upgrade the body down the line if the fancy takes me.
The K7 is a mighty step up (3 x the price!). Probably a bit out of my ballpark regarding my photography skill level......
The Terrorist - coming to a fishing spot near you.........
kaney68
Posts: 401
Date Joined: 29/07/08
Wise move
Wise move Huggy..
Get the "best" possible lenses you can stretch your budget to.
Once set, you will then only be replacing the body (when time to upgrade) as newer/better/cheaper models come out. (providing you stay with the same brand)
thebear
Posts: 246
Date Joined: 09/06/07
Tony is on the money. Pardon
Tony is on the money. Pardon the pun. That is the best way to get in. However stay away from those crime converters.
______________________________________________
I JUST LOVE THE SMELL OF NAPALM IN THE MORNING
MEMBER FFC BLOCK 212
CPBA MEMBER
Tony Halliday
Posts: 2500
Date Joined: 14/06/07
My first choice was Nikon
My first choice was Nikon D70, but could not find one at a good price, the I started to look for Pentax K series DSLR's as they could take my older Pentax lenses.
Never forget the Lens makes a bigger difference than the camera when it comes to quality. that why the little p&s jobs will always fall over on quality pics. My first usage is for my astronomy photography, and action sport / fishing second, so I was more interested in open bulb long exposures and hot-pixel effects, but shooting large numbers of high speed fps has same effect on generating hot pixels.
You can get a Pentax K200D now or a Nikon D60 for under $700 if you shop around with a good lens kit. DON"T take the cheap bargain lens they offer, they like cheap jigging rods...always ends in tears when you need the quality ...lol
some of the stuff I shoot,
http://yfrog.com/85darkmoonwidekb6j
http://yfrog.com/1rbwtotalityoriginal0ltj
http://yfrog.com/14008totalitycolourcorrected9coj
Tony Halliday: ~Meals on Reels ~
It takes a strong fish to swim against the current. Even a dead one can float with it
"It is always in season for old men to learn." Aeschylus (525-456 BC)
"In a mad world only the mad are sane." Akira Kurosawa (1910-1998)
mt-ed
Posts: 39
Date Joined: 05/08/08
Just a quick point, no
Just a quick point, no matter how much you spend on the camera body, it is the lens that makes the difference!
The bundled lenses are not too bad but choosing a non zoom lens will make a difference.
My mate asked me for advice on buying his camera, I gave it and said Don't get the bundled lenses but get a Sigma ( Cheaper then the makers brand but just as good) or spend the dollars on these specific Nikon lenses.
Well he got the bundled lenses after listening to the salesman about how they will do him for what he was aiming at.
Hmmmm , he used a couple of my Sigmas and Nikons, after having his for a few weeks, and was gutted he did not listen to what I said.
Spend the dollars on a quality "fast" lens not the camera body!
Most will never use the features of a Bells and whistle type camera body but they will be glad of a decent lens though.
kaney68
Posts: 401
Date Joined: 29/07/08
Yes... that is true...
To a point !!
This very much applied back in the days of film when the camera was simply a carrier for film.. (ok depending on the type of film, neg or tranny made a huge difference)... but now the camera is "recording" the image, there has to be a good balance between the body and the lens...
No point putting a crap lens on a good DSLR body... No point pointing a top end lens on a basic body !
For the average user the supplied lenses will be more than adequate..
For those with a few more $$'s to spend and want that "edge", then spend the money and upgrade your lens.
cheers,
Paul
HuggyB
Posts: 2515
Date Joined: 03/08/08
ho hum......
Alright, played around with a few DSLR's today - pass. They are too big and bulky, a right PITA and I can't see myself using it due to the drama of lugging around an oversized lump of plastic. Its lack of convienience bothers me.......
Brings me back to my previous question I guess? Any decent cameras that aren't DSLR's? G11 or something like that? I'd like a decent pfs continuous rate if possible....
The Terrorist - coming to a fishing spot near you.........
Lucky Tim
Posts: 2536
Date Joined: 28/11/07
I think the G series only
I think the G series only shoots just over 1 FPS. If you still want to get marlin jump shots without a SLR I'd be more interested in the delay between pushing the button and the photo actually getting taken. I did read somewhere the G series is pretty fast but haven't used one to be sure. Keep us posted if you give one a test run cos I'm interested to know the speed myself.
Tim
Posts: 2497
Date Joined: 26/09/06
Hi Def Video
If thats the way you want to go Huggy how about a Hi Def video Camera for the job.
Can get some good action shots and with the right sodtware you should be able to get some pretty good stills from the video itself.
Not as good as a DSLR but might fit what you want better. Very Compact these days.
kaney68
Posts: 401
Date Joined: 29/07/08
You really need a DSLR....
That's pretty much what it comes down to, inorder to achieve what you want to shoot !
There a some superb little compacts out at the moment.
I have just come back from a Canon Pro night... and they had 2 compacts floating around - The G11 and S90....amongst other new product releases..
Both cameras were extremely popular with those in attendance.
I had a play with S90 and the quality (not to mention its small size) was SUPERB !!!
But only shoots around or just under 1fps !
The G11 shoots between 0.8fps and 1.1fps
S90 info
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=144&modelid=19210
G11 info
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=144&modelid=19209
Lucky Tim
Posts: 2536
Date Joined: 28/11/07
what was they delay like
what was they delay like between pressing the button and the photo getting taken?
kaney68
Posts: 401
Date Joined: 29/07/08
the lag
The lag time was pretty damn good.....
Considering the talk was aimed at pro photographers, several of these guys either bought or were going to buy either the s90 or G11 just on the fact of how good they are...not to mention the size (nice and compact, drop it in your pocket)
HuggyB
Posts: 2515
Date Joined: 03/08/08
*sigh*
may have to scrap the "high fps burst rate compact" quest at this stage as it seems like DSLR or nothing - well not nothing, but horribly limited.....
Get a nice prosumer like the S90 and a video camera maybe - ideally not what I wanted, but them's the breaks!
that or suck it up and buy a DSLR and stop whinging about it.
The Terrorist - coming to a fishing spot near you.........
kaney68
Posts: 401
Date Joined: 29/07/08
Yeah Suck it up !!!!
and stop whinging
Kill 2 birds with 1 stone and get a DSLR with HD video built in - problem solved !
I believe Steve Corriera uses the Canon 5D mk2 to film his shows !!
Ok, you might not want to spend say $5k on a body alone, but I would still consider something in the pro-sumer range... even if it has to be a Pentax K7 (that was just for you PeteD
)
I've seen footage taken with K7 of a kid being chased by their grandfather, and it was like it was shot on a steady cam !! (having built in IS)
mako magic
Posts: 5785
Date Joined: 03/08/05
from what i know brad has a
from what i know brad has a video camera not sure if its HD though, i will find out, if it is well it might save you getting one atm
tailor marc
Posts: 2979
Date Joined: 27/09/06
Go a canon 450/500d , 70-300
Go a canon 450/500d , 70-300 usm and set up the fps and iso etc right and you should get some mint shots :).
My photography pictures... http://westernhorizonsmedia.wordpress.com/
mako magic
Posts: 5785
Date Joined: 03/08/05
panorama
whats the go with panorama, is it done with a special camera or special lense or both?
Lucky Tim
Posts: 2536
Date Joined: 28/11/07
you do panoramas with a
you do panoramas with a normal camera and lens, you just need a program like Photo Stitch, Panorama Maker etc. When you take the photos make sure the horizon is even in each pic and I also make sure there is a reference point in one photo then the next so it is easy to "line" them up when fine tuning the sitch. It is really easy, just go and take a few then give it a crack.
mako magic
Posts: 5785
Date Joined: 03/08/05
has anyone used a canon 7d,
has anyone used a canon 7d, what are they like and would you recommend one, wondering whether its worthwhile going one of them over a 50d i know its a bit more $$$ but i want to do it right the first time round
HuggyB
Posts: 2515
Date Joined: 03/08/08
I dont think you can get them locally yet?
still on order aren't they? Or if they are, still very very new - you'll be lucky if anyone has used yet.........
The Terrorist - coming to a fishing spot near you.........
kaney68
Posts: 401
Date Joined: 29/07/08
7D
Hi ya Matt....
Mate... you're going for broke in the DSLR's now !!
C'mon... for another couple of grand you can get the 1D mk4 when it comes out Dec/Jan....well ok...maybe about $4k extra
Check out this link to the US based sportsshooter.com forum..
http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_index.html?FQ_KW=canon+7d&FQ_WHO=&FQ_DATE=&_ACT=search&search=%3C--+Search
You might have to wade thru some of the listing for specific 7D info, but you will be able to read the good, the bad and the in different from the guys who own or have used the 7D..
From what I've heard it's a pretty good camera !
mako magic
Posts: 5785
Date Joined: 03/08/05
seen them advertised online
seen them advertised online to be purchased in OZ, i know they new but was hoping maybe someone has seen/used one
mako magic
Posts: 5785
Date Joined: 03/08/05
well i think of it this way,
well i think of it this way, spend more now and not upgrade as quick as if i bought a cheaper camera, or maybe go a 50d, seems to be a 50/50 between the 2 atm